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  • rhodiel
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 20

    Suggestions Needed

    Hello All,

    I am currently in the plans to build my very own FIRST HT room. The current RAW dimension is 25'x15'x9.5'. When building out the soundproofing the dimension will come down to 24'x14'x8.5'. When the room is finished, I will have fabric with foam padding installed along the walls which I suspect will take an additional .5 inch.

    I was wondering that kind of DLP front projector you would suggest?
    What is the optimal distance from screen to the projector?
    What kind of A/V equipment would you suggest for this size room?

    Any help and suggestions is appreciated.

    Thank you in advance. :?:
  • efarstad
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Jun 2001
    • 2231

    #2
    Hi Rhodiel and welcome to the Guide!

    That's a nice size room you have and will work great for a theater! Have you seen any DLP's yet? Before any of use can help you out, it would be great to know what kind of budget you have to work with. Distance to screen depends on the individual projector. As for A/V equipment, again knowing a budget would help.

    With a bit more info I think there are many that will chime in!

    E





    The Norwegian A/V Nut!
    E-Cinema

    The Norwegian A/V Nut!
    E-Cinema

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    • rhodiel
      Junior Member
      • Mar 2004
      • 20

      #3
      Thank you so much for the quick reply. I have approximately 10k for an A/V system. I look at all these equipment and I get so dizzy. All I want is getting something more bang for my buck. I would prefer not to get HIT in box. I especially would like a nice and clear sounding system. I hope this helps.

      Again, thank you in advance.

      Comment

      • Chris D
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Dec 2000
        • 16877

        #4
        Cool... don't worry, the guys here can find you good stuff for 10K. You won't be relegated to HTIB. Do you have any equipment at all already that you'll be using? Or are you needing EVERYTHING, including speakers, cables, processor, player, projector, screen, etc?

        What do you want to use the room for PRIMARILY? Movies? Satellite? TV? Music? Ping Pong?

        Fully enclosed room? Light controlled?




        CHRIS
        Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
        CHRIS

        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
        - Pleasantville

        Comment

        • rhodiel
          Junior Member
          • Mar 2004
          • 20

          #5
          It is a fully enclosed room.
          Cables, lights, and controllers are not in the budget I just mentioned. I have friends that are willing to donate their stuff (cables, lights etc). However, I failed to include the screen in the budget. I will primarily use this as satellite and movie viewing. Secondly, music will be used in this room.

          Comment

          • rhodiel
            Junior Member
            • Mar 2004
            • 20

            #6
            When is comes to pre-amp, amp, dvd, and processors etc. I need to buy those.

            Thank you.

            Comment

            • aud19
              Twin Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2003
              • 16706

              #7
              Well I'll leave the projector/screen for the guys who know more about them... But if the budget gets tight they can probably also help you out with some DIY tips for projector screeens. That way you can put more $ in to the rest of the gear, and save up for a "proper" screen down the road.

              For the rest though I'd suggest the following:

              -Rotel RSP-1068 Pre/Pro
              -Rotel RMB-1075 and RB-1080 Amps for 7.1 (or just the 1075 for 5.1)
              -Denon 2200 or 2900 DVD-V/DVD-A/SACD player

              Now the speakers.... they're pretty damn subjective but I'll recommend some of my fav's... Now obviously I'm a big Energy Fan so I'll start off with either Energy Connoisseur or Energy Veritas. I just love Energy speakers, one of the best tweeters out there IMO and awesome speakers for the $.

              Some other brands I like and recommend looking at (& listening to :P ):

              Athena, B&W, Infinity, Kef, Paradigm, Polk, PSB, Tannoy, Totem and Vienna Acoustics.

              As for subs look at:

              Paradigm, Velodyne, Adire, JBL (JBL's "expensive" ones, as their "cheap" ones are... well... cheap), SVS and HSU.

              Hope that helps I'm sure some other folks will chime in with stuff I missed or things they disagree with

              Jason




              Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
              Jason

              Comment

              • aud19
                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2003
                • 16706

                #8
                If the budget's a bit "constrained" you could also substitute the RSP-1068 and RMB-1075/RB-1080 with a RSX-1056 and RB-1070 or RB-1080 to free up a little $

                God I love spending other people's money!

                Jason




                Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                Jason

                Comment

                • George Bellefontaine
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Jan 2001
                  • 7637

                  #9
                  Choosing the right projector is never an easy task. Have you seen DLP ? Some people are bothered by rainbows, fatigue and headaches. But many aren't, and DLP is certainly a good way to go for high contrast and good black levels. Regardles of whether or not it is DLP, LCD, D-ILA, LCOS, or even CRT, you have to decvide where you want the PJ; floor mounted, back wall mounted, ceiling mounted ? With a room that size, and if the length is 25 feet and you want it mounted on the back wall, you will need a really LONG THROW projector. If you want to ceiling mount or floor mount, you won't have a problem finding short to medium throw projectors in any of the tchnology mentioned above. But I would strongly urge you to have a look at both DLP and LCD ( there are plenty available from $2 to $6K USD) to see which is right for you. They both have some trade-offs.




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                  Comment

                  • Lex
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Apr 2001
                    • 27461

                    #10
                    rhodial, please sign your posts with your first name.

                    Welcome to the forum.

                    Your requests might be better served by splitting it up between the video projection requests in front projection, and your home theater gear in Home Theater.

                    However, I'll throw my 2 cents in.

                    I'd recommend a Sanyo Z2, Carada screen (good bang for buck) see ad at bottom of page. That should leave you a little over 7 grand for the audio components, DVD player, speakers, and sub. It's a daunting task for 7K, but it can be done.

                    I'd also ask you this. Is 10K the top budget, or could that possibly be expanded over time? If it could possibly be expanded there are things you can do to maximize some parts now, then upgrade other parts as time and funds allow.

                    1. Project on white wall until screen funds are in place. (Save 700-1000)
                    2. get a 100.00 progressive scan DVD player to get by with for now, then upgrade later. (Savings of 500 or more for top players)
                    3. Carefully search the used market for some things, like subwoofer.
                    4. Get the best "front end" you can afford. pre-pro, amp, front 3 speakers. Get budget surrounds, and upgrade those later on.
                    5. Cables, see me for budget specials.

                    All I am saying is, choose what's critical to do right the first time, then upgrade from there. you want to do the projector, pre-pro, amp, and front 3 speakers right. DVD player right next in line if budget allows. Other things can be scrimped on for a while, upgrade later.

                    Lex




                    Cable Guy DVD Collection
                    Doug
                    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                    Comment

                    • rhodiel
                      Junior Member
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 20

                      #11
                      First and foremost my name is Ariel. I am very happy to meet you all under these circumstances.

                      Thank you again for the overall response to my plea for help!!! I can't thank all of you enough.

                      Jason,

                      This is the setup you feel I should get. Are there more aside from what you wrote --> Rotel RSP, RMB and the Denon DVD player? Plus the Speaker set from Energy?


                      George,

                      Yes, I have seen DLP FPs. I think they look really nice. I chose DLP because alot of people claim that LCD have ghosting and screen door effect. CRT is obviously out of my price range. I would imagine that the projector would mount on the ceiling. I suspect the distance would be approx 12-13' due to the limitation of my area for the screen (front wall dimension is 14'x8'). My seating and screen distance is approx 12'? Is that ideal?

                      Lex,
                      I have not had a chance to look at this screen you suggested. I am planning to put the center and front speakers behind the screen. I hope they have a screen suitable for my purpose (to maximize space). Do you think that is a good idea?
                      When it comes to DVD what is the difference between the DVD you recommend and the upgrade you want me to get later?

                      Again, I can't thank you enough for all your help!!!

                      Ariel

                      Comment

                      • George Bellefontaine
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Jan 2001
                        • 7637

                        #12
                        Ariel,
                        Mounting the Pj at 12 to 13 feet will leave you with plenty of Pjs to choose from. As for seating, I have an NEC HT1000K dlp and have it set up for viewing on a Da-lite 52 x 92 screen. The NEC has a panel resolution of 1024 x 768, and I sit at approx 13 feet from the screen and see no pixel structure. And if you go with a 1280 x 720 HDTV projector you will definitely not have a problem sitting 12 feet from the screen. If you go larger than a 92" wide screen, the rule of thumb to follow is to start seating 1.5 to 2 times the screen width. Good luck.




                        My Homepage!
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                        Comment

                        • LEVESQUE
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 344

                          #13
                          I think you should consider the new Pioneer 59avi universal player if you want to use that sweet DVI-connection to your DLP display, and keep a complete digital path.

                          The Denon 2900 is a good universal player, but with a DLP projector, I really think you would benefit from a pure digital connection coming from the Pio, and for around the same price. 8) Why buy a digital projector and then use an analog connections?

                          And my other advice would be to invest the biggest part in good speakers. Receivers and pre/pro come and go, and new technologies are coming out like crazy, but speaker technologies are not changing that much since 20 years, so investing in good speakers should be your biggest priorities.

                          We are all getting crazy around those new toys like pre/pro and amps, but we are often forgetting the basics: a crappy sounding speaker will always be a crappy sounding speaker, even if you pair it with the best pre/pro amp combo.

                          I think people are sometime getting over the top with pre/pro and amps, and forgetting to invest in good speakers first. And good speakers will last for years!
                          To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

                          Comment

                          • Sonnie Parker
                            • Jan 2002
                            • 2858

                            #14
                            Ariel... I noticed you mentioned you might be interested in a Sanyo PLV-70 over in Front Projection. This is going to burn up about 40% of your $10K. I'm not trying to steer you from DLP but if screen door and ghosting are the only reasons you are not considering LCD then please reconsider. I and several other people here in this forum own the Sanyo Z2 or equivalent SE2HD and I can certainly testify that I have experienced no ghosting whatsoever. As far as SDE... my head is positioned at 11' from my 97" screen and I have no problems with SDE... I can not see SDE until I get right about 7-8' from the screen. Even when I was testing my screen size and zoomed to 106" I never noticed screen door from my seating position.

                            Just something to think about as the Z2/2HD can be had for about $2K or so. Studio just released more 2HD's and it's now my understanding they will release even a few more all along. This will allow you more money to spend on those better speakers or other equipment.

                            FWIW... I have the Denon 2900 connected via component to my 2HD and it is awesome. I plan on getting an inexpensive DVI DVD player soon just to see what difference it will make, but I can tell you that this unit via component is very very good.






                            SONNIE

                            Cedar Creek Cinema

                            DVD Collection

                            BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

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                            • aud19
                              Twin Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 16706

                              #15
                              This is the setup you feel I should get. Are there more aside from what you wrote --> Rotel RSP, RMB and the Denon DVD player? Plus the Speaker set from Energy?
                              Absolutely there are more. You'll eventually have to narrow it down to a few brands and models and ultimately decide for yourself what you prefer. That's just what I'd buy if it was my money and my ears. You can Also look at Anthem, Nad and Parasound besides Rotel for gear a cut above the rest. For more "consumer" receivers Denon, Yamaha and H.K. are some of the better brands IMO.

                              For DVD players Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer would be at the top of my list. Though most of the higher-end brands I listed above also have very good players that sacrifice some useful features (like universal playback) for usually slightly higher picture/sound quality but at a higher price.

                              As for speakers, like I stated above some of the other brands (besides Energy) I like are:
                              Athena, B&W, Infinity, Kef, Paradigm, Polk, PSB, Tannoy, Totem and Vienna Acoustics
                              For subs:
                              Paradigm, Velodyne, Adire, JBL (JBL's "expensive" ones, as their "cheap" ones are... well... cheap), SVS and HSU

                              I think people are sometime getting over the top with pre/pro and amps, and forgetting to invest in good speakers first. And good speakers will last for years!
                              I totally second that but I'll also include amps in that as they change about as fast as speakers and no matter what pre/pro you use you can still utilize your amp. However, you do also have to keep in mind though that there's not much point buying a $6000 set of speakers and powering them with a $500 receiver.

                              Jason




                              Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                              Jason

                              Comment

                              • aud19
                                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 16706

                                #16
                                Also regarding the DVI vs component DVD player connection... Personally I'd utilize my DVI input from a HD set top box (from cable sattelite or OTA) as, IMO, you'll have more benefit sending actual HD signals (1080i/720p) in the digital domain to your projector over DVD (480i/p). Component connections will really work quite fine for either HD or DVD though.

                                Jason




                                Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                Jason

                                Comment

                                • rhodiel
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Mar 2004
                                  • 20

                                  #17
                                  Thank you all for all the advice!!

                                  Ariel

                                  If anything else come to mind please let me know.

                                  Comment

                                  • Andrew Pratt
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 16507

                                    #18
                                    Ariel have you listened to any AV gear or speakers recently that you liked? As you know there's a lot of options available that we can recomend but speakers for example are very subjective and while Jason might like Energy I might prefer Magnepans which are very different sounding speakers using completely different technology.

                                    You idea of placing the speakers behind the screen is typically thought of as optimal...but it does limit screen choices and some claim the perforated screens aren't as good as solid screens for image quality.

                                    There's a couple of different ways of selecting gear depending on your budget and room etc...for example if your seating is likely going to be fixed at 14 feet from the front wall then that means we're looking at a screen of a set width (give or take a little) to meet the THX width requirements for optimal viewing angles...this then means that we have soem values to help us choose the right projector that will look good on that screen...or you can do it the other way round and choose the PJ first and then fit the screen and seating to that unit.

                                    In general though I'd be looking to spend the bulk of your budget on speakers, the power amp and the screen. These items are going to outlast every other item in the room....short of the room itself which is as important as the gear for the sound you hear. AV pre amps change every year as new formats arrive and DVD players are changing a bit as well...though nothing like what's happening with digital projectors. While you can spend a ton of money on a projector I'd advise you to look at some of the cheaper solutions since they're still going to look very good and with times changing as fast as they are you won't be left with a $7000 PJ that's only worth $500 in a couple of years.

                                    So with all that in mind here's a brief outline of what I'd look at...

                                    Rotel RSP 1068 pre amp $1699
                                    Rotel RMB 1075 5 channel power amp $999
                                    Rotel RMB 1070 2 channel power amp $699

                                    Denon 2900 DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-A universal DVd player $800

                                    Sanyo Z2 projector $1850

                                    Stewart Firehawk screen $1700

                                    Rocket HT Speaker Package # 3 $1700 (link here)

                                    I'd then add either the Sadhara or the Dharma subwoofers from Adire Audio depending on what sort of deals you got from the above list as they are all list prices. Figure on saving around 10 percent off list on the Rotel gear and we could easily save money on the projection screen if need be...but the firehawk is an incredible screen.




                                    Comment

                                    • rhodiel
                                      Junior Member
                                      • Mar 2004
                                      • 20

                                      #19
                                      Thank for the suggestions.

                                      Andrew,

                                      I visited your HT site. Nice! I noticed you have fabric on you wall. Are there any foam underneath? Did you do this yourself?

                                      Thanks,

                                      Ariel

                                      Comment

                                      • Andrew Pratt
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 16507

                                        #20
                                        Ariel the fabic you see covers a 1" thick layer of John Mansville Linacoustic fiberglass insulation. It has identical acoustic properties to their higher end TheaterSheild product that's intended for use in lining walls of comerical theaters. The Linacoustic is much easier to find locally as its also used to line heating/cooling ducts. When you compare the acoustic properties of the two products though they're virtually identical so most people just use the linacoustic material.




                                        Comment

                                        • rhodiel
                                          Junior Member
                                          • Mar 2004
                                          • 20

                                          #21
                                          Thanks Andrew.

                                          Is this a solid insulation? Meaning, are you using a checkered pattern or any spacing leaving some spots open for some reflectivity property? The reason I am asking is I had mentioned to a dealer that I was going to have fiber and foam layed out on all walls. He said with great confidence that it was a very bad idea. He said that the room would be a dead room and that I would not want that. He further explained that in front of the room you need solid absorbtion, in the middle there are some absorbtion/some relfection and finally in the back of the room more on reflection/some absorbtion. Kind of getting confused to what is an optimal acoustic friendly room ... for an HT room that is.

                                          Any thoughts?

                                          Thanks,

                                          Ariel

                                          Comment

                                          • Sonnie Parker
                                            • Jan 2002
                                            • 2858

                                            #22
                                            I have no material on my walls and it sounds fine to me. It's simply painted sheetrock. It is definitely not too live although I'm not sure it's 100% acoustically correct. I may try adding a couple of small panels (2' X 3') on the sides for first reflections from my mains just to hear what kind of difference it might make.

                                            I used a heavier carpet padding than normal and have 6 cloth recliners which is certain to have some effect.

                                            I know of few others who have no material on their walls and have had no complaints. It might be a matter of preference as to how live you want your room.

                                            Personally I'd say try it without anything and see how you like it. It can be added later if you feel you need it... especially the smaller pre-covered panels.






                                            SONNIE

                                            Cedar Creek Cinema

                                            DVD Collection

                                            BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

                                            Comment

                                            • Andrew Pratt
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Aug 2000
                                              • 16507

                                              #23
                                              Ideally you want the front wall completly covered and the side/back walls covered up to about 3-4' from the floor. This will give you a fairly dead room though which is ideal for HT environments since the speakers generate the sense of depth in the sound field...where overly dead rooms suffer though is for 2 channel music as you are absorbing too much relection (reverb) that builds a sense of deep and wide music...unfortunatly there's no easy way to do a perfect HT and perfect 2 channel room at once. That's not to say though that you can't do something that fits sort of between the two. I did the dead front wall and bottom 36" around the side and rear walls as well as carpeted the upper half of the wall...that was a mistake. I think my room would have turned out ideal had I not added the carpet since it essentially killed all my reflections giving me an overly dead room. This works great for HT but I wanted a music room as well so I've been slowly adding large poster frames around the room to add some reverb back into the room and its paid off nicely. I still have a ways to go but you live and learn.

                                              So if I were to do it over again I'd still use the insulation on the front and bottom half of the walls but I'd leave the upper portion painted sheet rock.

                                              Linacoustic isn't a solid board but a 1" thick mat that comes rolled up like carpet. Its has two sides to it..one being regular black fiberglass like the pink stuff used in walls and the other side has a papery layer on top...its this papery later that you leave on the outside facing the room.

                                              here
                                              s
                                              a photo of my room before i added the red fabric over the linacoustic.




                                              Comment

                                              • Chris D
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Dec 2000
                                                • 16877

                                                #24
                                                I too am building a theater room and am coming up on the wall treatment stage. I plan on doing essentially the same thing that Andrew recommended. I'll be putting batting on the lower halves of the walls, and leaving the top sheetrocked. (probably fabric over the sheetrock)

                                                With my current room sheetrocked and the floor carpet now installed, as I'm installing my equipment and doing testing and evaluation, it's WAY too "live" for me. Lots of reverberations and echoes, even as I'm putting the seating a stuff in to break up the room. I'm positive it will sound like an entirely different room with wall treatments.




                                                CHRIS
                                                Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                                                CHRIS

                                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                - Pleasantville

                                                Comment

                                                • aud19
                                                  Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                  • 16706

                                                  #25
                                                  Acoustics, or proper acoustics anyway, are not for the faint of heart. It requires a combination of diffuse and absorbtive material placed according to a LOT of calculation and know how. Your best bet IMO, is to get the room completed, speakers placed properly, with all your furniture and drapes etc that will be in the room first. (You may be surprised how much poofy couches and drapes on the windows will help) Then after doing research (internet, your local library AND a local installer who knows what they're talking about if you can) first order reflections are likey the easiest to start with especially for the DIY'er. That's easy enough to do with two people and a mirror and of course the absorbtive panels. From there the next thing I would tackle is to diffuse the sound waves at the rear of the room. You can buy diffuse panels for bare walls but a much less expensive alternative is to have shelving for DVD's, books, equipment etc. The more varrying the depths and sizes as well as the more varrying placement on the wall of the shelves, the better. Anything more in depth would , IMO, require a professional to do properly otherwise you risk having more of a detrimental effect on the sound than benneficial.

                                                  Jason




                                                  Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                                  Jason

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