Screen for the Matinee 2HD

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  • Trevor Schell
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10935

    Screen for the Matinee 2HD

    My Studio Experience Matinee 2HD is on the way.
    Now I need to get serious on a screen.

    UPDATE:It is here.

    I want a 96" screen and will need a low gain high contrast (grey) screen.
    This is the best suited screen from the research I done so far on the Studio Experience Matinee 2HD.

    However I went to the Carada Webpage and
    have choices of
    1.78 to 1
    1.85 to 1
    2.05 to 1
    2.35 to 1
    So now I am not sure which size to get in 16:9

    Also,,I would like to order from a CDN vendor..Any suggestions?

    Any advice would be appreciated.
    Thanks,




    Trevor
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  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    #2
    Trevor I've got screen samples from all the various vendors and would feel comfortable recomending only two comercial products and at least one DIY screen if you're interested in giving it a try? Of the two comerical products I'd get the stewart firehawk if your budget allows (its the best screen I've seen bar none) or on the tighter budget try a Da-lite HCCV screen. You should be able to just get the raw screen material and stretch it over your own frame if you like which would save you $$$. I'm sure Bing would lend a hand building a frame if you bought him a few beers

    As for screen shape IMO 1:78 (16:9) is the easiest to work with as far as maintaining the various aspect ratio's DVD's come in.




    Comment

    • Dean McManis
      Moderator Emeritus
      • May 2003
      • 762

      #3
      I really like my Stewart Grayhawk perforated screen, and the Firehawk came out afterwards and has some other advantages.

      Before that I had a DaLite Audiovision perf screen where I bought just the screen, with presewn black edging with metal gromits.
      And then I built a simple wooden frame with hook loops and laced it up (for even screen tension). It was a great deal for the low cost.
      The Stewart Grayhawk is better, with everything built top-notch, but would of course be more costly to buy.

      My last 4 screens were all 1.78:1. It's a perfect fit for HD material and great for 1.85:1 widescreen movies, plus it looks like a movie theater screen, but is still close enough to 1.33:1 (4:3) to work well for regular TV, the internet, and video games. 8)

      -Dean.

      Comment

      • Burke Strickland
        Moderator
        • Sep 2001
        • 3161

        #4
        Although I have a ten foot diagonal 16:9 screen, since I've been maintaining a constant height for all sources and am only varying the width to maximize the effect of 2.35:1 vs other formats (as at a "real" movie theater) that means I now have a permanent black matte mask at top and bottom of the screen. The 4:3 material is still plenty big, and I don't want to exaggerate it in comparison to widescreen material by expanding the vertical dimension. If I were buying today, I'd get a 2.35:1 screen.

        As for the screen material, I really like the DaLite High Power screen surface. The retro-reflective beads shoot the light right back at you with no "scatter" amd therefore give a very vivid presentation. Projector guru Bill Cushman recommends it and uses the same material in his own home theater most of the time even though he has Grayhawk and Firehawk screens on hand for projector review comparisons. I've seen movies projected on both of those, and actually either would be quite satisfactory -- I just happen to prefer the High Power. (It also has the distinct advantage in my HT of already being paid for.) :>)

        The High Power screen is also washable -- I just gave mine a gentle scrubbing last week (water and soft cotton cloths) to remove a year's worth of accumulated grunge before some friends came over for a movie night. The result was almost like buying a new bulb for the projector. :>)

        If possible, you should try getting a sample of the different screen materials and project images on them to decide which you like before sinking a lot of money into a screen. That will mean you might be watching movies on a white sheet tacked to the wall for a while, but in the long run, it mkaes sense to take your time and make the right choice.

        Also, waiting on the screen until you actually have the projector onhand gives you the opportunity to play around with the size of projected images to determine what size screen really makes in your space given the lighting and distance of seating from the screen-to-be. (I played with that for a couple if weeks before ordering, marking the wall with masking tape when I found an image size I could live with for impact vs screen door, etcetera, and then measured from the tape marks to get the screen size I should order.) Try projecting a variety of sources and get the biggest screen that will fit the wall that still gives an acceptable image with the best of the sources. You can always zoom down if you decide to go smaller later, but you'd have to buy a new screen to go bigger.

        Burke

        What you DON'T say may be held against you...

        Comment

        • Andrew Pratt
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 16507

          #5
          I like the greyhawk as well but IMO it dulls the whites a little too much esp compared to the firehawk or HCCV. The screen I built sits right between the greyhawk and firehawk with respect to white and black levels so I'm quite happy with it esp. considering the cost




          Comment

          • efarstad
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Jun 2001
            • 2231

            #6
            I have the Da-Lite HCCV with my Z1/1HD...and am very happy.

            E





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            • George Bellefontaine
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Jan 2001
              • 7637

              #7
              I have pretty much gone with 16:9 screens, but I once toyed with the idea of a 2:35 format.

              For material I have pretty much found the 1 gain white matte works best for me.




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              • Trevor Schell
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 10935

                #8
                Thanks guys!
                I guess I will go with the 1.78 to 1 screen as it
                would suit my needs.
                Any CDN vendors that I can order the Dalite ,
                or Stewart Firehawk, Greyhawk screens.
                First I would like to compare pricing however, I would not want to spend more than what I paid for the projector for the screen.

                Sorry Andrew,,DIY' for me will not be an option..
                Just can't afford to let Bing drink all my beer after buying the
                FPTV..




                Trevor
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                Comment

                • Lex
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Apr 2001
                  • 27461

                  #9
                  In my opinion, you just can't beat classic white low gain screens. High gain white just washes blacks out to much. Grey to me changes to many colors.

                  The compromises going any grey to me are to great. Let's face it, PJ's in the 2000 and less price range don't have the most lumens of PJ's out there. So, when you put the image on a grey background, your going to have to push your PJ more to have good brightness. Even then, it can be difficult to achieve. So, white allows you to not push your bulb as hard, thus likely adding to it's lifespan.

                  I think Carada is a good value in screens myself.

                  Lex
                  Doug
                  "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                  Comment

                  • Burke Strickland
                    Moderator
                    • Sep 2001
                    • 3161

                    #10
                    [
                    High gain white just washes blacks out to much.
                    ...
                    The compromises going any grey to me are to great. Let's face it, PJ's in the 2000 and less price range don't have the most lumens of PJ's out there. So, when you put the image on a grey background, your going to have to push your PJ more to have good brightness.
                    Many who have seen the Dalite High Power screen in use feel that its retro-reflective properties overcome the low lumens problem that you correctly identify as a shortcoming with gray screens. (Of course, it is not gray.) :>)

                    Unlike conventional "high gain" designs, the High Power surface doesn't "wash out" blacks or any other color in the spectrum, but rather enhances them, because the light from the projector is reflected directly back at the viewer rather than scattered around (which is what causes "wash out", along with high levels of ambient light).

                    It does have a slightly narrower angle of view for optimum effect than "standard" screens, but the payback in vivid color and detail is well worth it (unless you plan to seat twenty across). :>) But I would certainly agree that a classic matte white low gain screen is better than the usual "high gain" designs that have been marketed in the past primarily for high ambient light-level situations.

                    Burke

                    What you DON'T say may be held against you...

                    Comment

                    • Lex
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Apr 2001
                      • 27461

                      #11
                      Ahh, good points Burke. I've not had experience with that screen. Is this the silver that Andrew spoke of or something similar?

                      Lex
                      Doug
                      "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                      Comment

                      • Andrew Pratt
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 16507

                        #12
                        No the hi power is a white screen not silver.

                        Doug which grey screens have you compared? (just curious given your color shifting comment)

                        Trevor AVDeals.ca has both Dalite and Stewart screen. Do you need roll up or can we do a fixed screen?

                        These also have screens.




                        Comment

                        • Trevor Schell
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 10935

                          #13
                          The Matinee 2HD has a Contrast Ratio of 1300:1
                          And a Lumens rating of 700
                          Prjector Central has recommended a grey screen with a low gain.

                          That is what I will get.

                          Andrew, I will check your links.

                          Burke! Good to hear from you again.
                          Your info is very helpful. Thanks.

                          Lex,,Thanks




                          Trevor
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                          Comment

                          • Dean McManis
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • May 2003
                            • 762

                            #14
                            I didn't see any color shift or changing of whites when I moved to the Grayhawk screen. The only visible difference for me were better looking blacks, a contrast improvement, and better shadow detail.
                            The improvements were not huge, but definitely visible when viewing my favorite demo scenes.

                            -Dean.

                            Comment

                            • JonMarsh
                              Mad Max Moderator
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 15254

                              #15
                              For what it's worth (this opinion and $2.85 woll get you a grande latte at most Starbucks), I'm with Burke on this one, regarding the Da-Lite High Power. Two Thumbs up, and a couple of toes, too.

                              ~Jon




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                              • Trevor Schell
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 10935

                                #16
                                Here is what we have decided..
                                Da-Lite HC Cinema Vision (HCCV)
                                92" Diagnol Permanent Wall Mount Cinema Contour
                                Originally though, I wanted the 96" size screen.
                                The recommendations for the 2HD is not to go over
                                100" for optimun picture quality..This rules out the 106" size..
                                However the 106" would fit into the room but would likely cover the mains..I would need a perf screen then.
                                The reason for the wall mount screen is that originally it will be hung in front of the RPTV..We decided eventually , soon down the raod we would mount the screen to the back wall.
                                The seating distance from the screen mounted in front of the RPTV is 13 feet. When mounted righ tto the wall we will have a distance of 15 feet from the seating area.
                                Because we will be going right to the wall down the road , the purchase of a perf screen would be useless.

                                I would like the 106" but 15 feet away , we would likely sacrifice picture quality a great deal.

                                Just wish they made a 96" size.






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                                • Trevor Schell
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 10935

                                  #17
                                  Since I will be eventually 15 feet from the screen,
                                  I wonder if I should go with the 106"
                                  The width of the 106" is 92 " . Multiply that by 2 =184"
                                  or 15'3" which will be the viewing distance.

                                  PS,,I found out what the Pro-Trim is for the Da-Lites.
                                  It's a fabric frame covering that aesthetiacally enhances the appearance of the installation and absorbs light that surrounds the viewing area of the screen. Sounds like a must have,,for the extra $200.

                                  Here is the write up on the screen recomendation from the Projector Central review of the 2HD/ Z2

                                  Screen size and choice

                                  When it comes to screen size, give this some serious thought. There is a perennial trade-off in front projection…everyone loves projectors for their huge images of course, but the larger the image the lower the quality. Any projector can be stretched even up to 15 feet or more diagonal. When you do that you get a dimmer image that is lower in contrast and higher in visible pixelation than you'd have with a smaller image from the same projector. This is always true no matter what projector you choose.

                                  So you have an "image quality vs. image size" decision to make. If we were setting up the Z2, we'd choose an image size of about 100". Actually some screen vendors have a 96" 16:9 diagonal frame as a stock item in their catalogs, and this is ideal. If you want to go somewhat smaller down to 90", you simply end up with an image that is a bit richer and even more beautiful. If you go up to 120", you still end up with a very fine picture. But at this size you will begin to see some loss in contrast, and depending on how close you are sitting, some slight pixelation may become apparent. For these reasons we'd say the optimum solution to the size vs. quality trade-off for this projector is in the range of 96" to 100" diagonal for a 16:9 screen.

                                  As far as screen material goes, we would use a low gain, high contrast (gray) screen with this unit. This is particularly true if you, like most normal folks, do not have a black viewing environment. If you have a white ceiling, light colored walls, carpet, furnishings, etc, you will get reflected light from the environment bouncing back onto the screen. A white screen will in turn reflect this light, and the effect is a somewhat reduced image contrast. A gray screen does not reflect this ambient light nearly as efficiently. Thus it helps maintain better image contrast in a viewing room where reflected or indirect ambient light is present.
                                  Seating area distance tip form Projector central..

                                  As a rule of thumb with XGA or WXGA resolution projectors, a viewing distance of less than 1.5 times the screen width will get you into the trouble zone where pixelation and artifacts become more visibly intrusive. While it is true you have a very BIG image in front of you, these distractions can compromise viewing satisfaction.

                                  On the other hand a viewing distance of 2.0 times the screen width or greater gives you beautiful image integration in which pixelation is invisible, artifacts are minimized, and the picture appears as a solid unified video image.

                                  The range in between these two, that is a viewing distance of between 1.5 to 2.0 times the screen width, is the area where the trade-off happens—the closer you sit, the bigger the screen looks obviously, but the more you begin to see the flaws in the image also. In my personal experience, with XGA or WXGA projectors, a viewing distance of 2.0 times the screen width is the perfect solution, yielding large screen drama with just enough distance to cause the image to be fully integrated and resolved visually. But that is just me. Your preferences may be different than mine. You may want to sit a bit closer and live with a bit more pixelation or artifact noise than I would. Or you may find that an image that is 2.0 times the screen width is still too large for your tastes.

                                  Now these are just rules of thumb. Clearly the projector you choose will have some impact upon ideal viewing ranges. Very high resolution projectors will allow for larger screens and closer viewing distances without compromising image integrity. Alternatively, if you go with a lower resolution SVGA projector, you will need to sit back a bit further to eliminate visible pixelation, scanline artifacts, etc., than you would with a higher resolution machine.




                                  Trevor
                                  My HomeTheater S.E.
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                                  Comment

                                  • George Bellefontaine
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Jan 2001
                                    • 7637

                                    #18
                                    Trevor, your pj has higher lumens, contrast and resolution over my Sony lcd pj and I sit between 13 and 14 feet from a 52 x 92 ( 106" diag) screen and it is plenty bright and no screendoor. I feel you will be sorry if you go with a smaller picture> I did with my first foray into front projection and ended up getting a bigger one later.

                                    BTW, I take what Projector Central guys say with a grain of salt. Their reviews are often wanting. Also, ideal to one person is often different to another. The general rule of thumb for seating distance was determined way back before the onset of higher resolution display devices. Some of the early lcd pjs, for example, had low pixel counts and the screendoor was a killer when sitting even at 3 times the screen width. I feel with the new higher res displays that a 1.5 screen width seating distance is quite adequate.




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                                    • Dean McManis
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • May 2003
                                      • 762

                                      #19
                                      Since I will be eventually 15 feet from the screen,
                                      I wonder if I should go with the 106"
                                      The width of the 106" is 92 " . Multiply that by 2 =184"
                                      or 15'3" which will be the viewing distance.
                                      Oops! that means that I should be watching from 26'+ away using that formula. ops:
                                      PS,,I found out what the Pro-Trim is for the Da-Lites.
                                      It's a fabric frame covering that aesthetiacally enhances the appearance of the installation and absorbs light that surrounds the viewing area of the screen. Sounds like a must have, for the extra $200.
                                      I have the black felt trim on my Stewart screen and it is nice. I went one more step and added black curtains and a black ceiling and black bottom mask to create a shadow box in the front of the theater to reduce contrast loss from wall light reflection. The dark trim is nice though.

                                      I'm also a bigger is better screen fan, but it does depend a LOT on personal preferences. If you have a white back wall, you really might want to hold off on buying the screen until you get the projector and can see how the picture looks at difference sizes (image quality, screen door, image size vs.viewing distance).

                                      Nothing beats seeing everything with you own eyes and judging firsthand.

                                      -Dean.

                                      Comment

                                      • George Bellefontaine
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Jan 2001
                                        • 7637

                                        #20
                                        As usual, good advice from Dean. Personal preference is really what it's all about.




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                                        • Trevor Schell
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 10935

                                          #21
                                          Thanks George and Dean,,

                                          DONE!! I ordered the Da-Lite HCCV Cinema Contour with Pro-Trim
                                          106" Diagonal (53"x92")
                                          I ordered it last night before going to bed.



                                          I think the larger size is going to be awesome in the room and not to overpowering,,Actually it will be in ratio with the Audio for a change..




                                          Trevor
                                          My HomeTheater S.E.
                                          Sonically Enhanced
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                                          • Claude D D
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jan 2003
                                            • 465

                                            #22
                                            Should be pretty sweet Trevor.Looking forward to your review.It should be filled with wow's and awesome's!!!

                                            Comment

                                            • Dean McManis
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • May 2003
                                              • 762

                                              #23
                                              Congrats Trevor!

                                              I think that you will be pleased with your choice of going with the bigger screen. 800 lumens is easily enough brightness to light up that size screen well as long as you have decent light control, and the high def 1280 X 720p resolution can easily support that size as well.

                                              The immersive nature of a big screen is what feels like you are in a small movie theater, rather than just looking at a big TV. :twisted:

                                              I'm looking forward to pictures and reading your impressions once you have it all setup.
                                              What a great Christmas gift!

                                              -Dean.

                                              Comment

                                              • Andrew Pratt
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 16507

                                                #24
                                                The immersive nature of a big screen is what feels like you are in a small movie theater, rather than just looking at a big TV.
                                                You know I tell people this all the time but until you see a movie on a PJ in your home you really can't appreicate just how different it is vs watching a movie on a RPTV




                                                Comment

                                                • George Bellefontaine
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                  • 7637

                                                  #25
                                                  So true, Andrew.




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                                                  • Sonnie Parker
                                                    • Jan 2002
                                                    • 2858

                                                    #26
                                                    Congrats Trev! I can't wait myself to hear what you have to say. Hurry up!


                                                    I can't wait to see what it looks and feels like myself. I've got high expectations.






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