Looking for a new TV...

[Tha Freak]

(Aud, here it is :W )

Starting to look for a bigger screen...

50in minimum…

LCD ? DLP ? what are the differences?

What are the most important things to look for in a TV set to be as future proof as possible?

Do all sets can display 480i/480p, 720p, 1080i… ?? or some of them are not able to display them all?

What is the 3LCD by Sony ?

I’m looking at :

Sony Grand Wega 50in (KFE50A10) or 55in
Toshiba 52in DLP (Talen) or the 62
Hitachi 50in (50V720) or the 60

What do you guys think about those models ?

[aud19]

:W

CRT's still offer the best PQ and are dirt cheap. Downides are a big box and it's "old" technology. If you look at CRT's look at Hitachi or Mitsubishi.

LCD's generally offer a better picture IMO and better colour than DLP but poorer black levels and they also can have "ghosting" due to their lower refresh speeds with fast motion. Both DLP and LCD will require bulb changes eventually as well.

Personally if I was buying a digital display now it would probably be Sony's SXRD. It's a 1080p display but it currently won't accept a 1080p signal. The replacement model due in summer/fall should correct this.

As far as I know all HD capababe displays should accept any of those standard signals. What invidual sets do with those signals, and how well, is what varies

[peterS]

:W

CRT's still offer the best PQ and are dirt cheap. Downides are a big box and it's "old" technology. If you look at CRT's look at Hitachi or Mitsubishi.

LCD's generally offer a better picture IMO and better colour than DLP but poorer black levels and they also can have "ghosting" due to their lower refresh speeds with fast motion. Both DLP and LCD will require bulb changes eventually as well.

Personally if I was buying a digital display now it would probably be Sony's SXRD. It's a 1080p display but it currently won't accept a 1080p signal. The replacement model due in summer/fall should correct this.

As far as I know all HD capababe displays should accept any of those standard signals. What invidual sets do with those signals, and how well, is what varies

crt's have the worst "picture quality" and cost marginaly less than a similar sized lcd. they are just incabible of having as clear of a picture (the whole point of hd) yes they will have faster refreshrate and good contrast but that is trivial when they get blown out of the water in terms of picture clarity (plus they are dust magnets and are affected but unshgielded speakers and need to be tuned up)

lcds have a sharper picture (deal with it on a pixel level) but are difficient in greens, also tend to be artificial in overall representation- very eye catching so a good advantage in a commercial setting or to wow friends, fatuging to watch movies on- the image is also flat in comparison to all the rest
seems many of the economy priced ones have insufficient processors.... i say xbr or forget it

dlps slaughter any lcd/lcos etc in terms of contrast ratio, the picture is grittyer but some preffer that as it is similar to a movie projector
very fiew lcds rear projections look good imo, only the sony a10 and sxrd are worth considering, panasonic, jvc, sony a20 and mitsu's offerings have such bad screendoor they arnt worth considering imo

plasmas have the best refresh rates and there limiting factors will be the processors, i have actualy grown sick of the panasonics due to there constant 'macro blocking' during fast images
very natural greens, reflections off the glass can be a concern
again the pioneer is the only one worth considering because it is so advanced
only one with just one glass panel, deepest phospherous cells, best proccessor, plethera of inputs, only one cord inbetween the monitor and processor and finaly displays at 72 fps when watching movies!

i personaly think it is way to soon for 1080p, personaly it is a bit premature for any of these as the true hd source material for movies isnt available yet, hd programing is scarce and not very good for the most part either
ps.
our lg flat pannel loops a video of a fish tank and jpgs ... virtual art :E

[aud19]

Peter have you seen a calibrated, particuarly 9" gun CRT monitor? I've yet to see any digital display come close to the PQ of a calibrated 9" CRT display. (Though SED may do it, however it's realistically at least a couple years away.) Sony's SXRD seems to come closest to say 7" guns for PQ IMO and the better DLP's would be next, although with the graininess you mentioned.

Also, from almost any digital display I've seen, if anything they seems to have exaggerated greens. I've also seen numerous lab measurements confirming this.

[peterS]

Peter have you seen a calibrated, particuarly 9" gun CRT monitor? I've yet to see any digital display come close to the PQ of a calibrated 9" CRT display. (Though SED may do it, however it's realistically at least a couple years away.) Sony's SXRD seems to come closest to say 7" guns for PQ IMO and the better DLP's would be next, although with the graininess you mentioned.

Also, from almost any digital display I've seen, if anything they seems to have exaggerated greens. I've also seen numerous lab measurements confirming this.

the "best" crt i have seen are either the samsung slim fit or sony's... im sure thats a ways off from what you are refering to
if you are refering to rear projection models the only ones ive seen are intollerable.... im sure there is better but burn in and constant callibration and presumably higher price than entry dlp would make me assume it isnt worth it for most
all depends on what one values
ii wouldnt sell the farm for SED yet either, all we have to go on is marketting hype... i will personaly never use one because i dont sheild my speakers
also dust will again be an issue along with reflections... otherwise it better be the holy grail or i see no point lol

greens difficient in terms of accurate portrayal... poor wording :W

[Tha Freak]

In one word, avoir LCD ??

Also about DLP, what about the infamous rainbow effect?, screendoor effect??

Toshiba's Talen technology is a consideration ??

I forgot, max budjet, 3500$can

Also do we have to but the 500$ rack for the TV (because of special anchors to hold the TV set ??or can we buy another one at our own taste (read wood) ??

[aud19]

Well I was reffering to the Mitsubishi 9" CRT's but even the better 7" models from Hitachi, Mitsu and even Sony, when well calibrated have a pretty damn nice picture aproaching the clarity of digital displays with more accurate colour, better black levels and IMO a more pleasing overall picture. As for maintenance, a couple mild tweaks a couple times a year isn't really a big deal. Not really much more work (and a lot cheaper) than changing bulbs etc

As for SED, I haven't been fortunate enough to see it myself but the reports coming out of CES from folks who have say it IS all that and a lot more than just marketing hype

[P-Dub]

I'd like to see what other recommendations come from this thread. I have a friend looking to upgrade as well, but he's coming from an old Mits 32" Tube. Budget is about the same C$3,500.

The LCD projections sets and the DLP projection sets are probably what he would like the most.

On another note, I just read an old article, I think last month, about Canon investing mega dollars, I think it was something like $5 Billion, to produce SED sets. They feel this is the wave of the future.

[aud19]

In one word, avoir LCD ??

Also about DLP, what about the infamous rainbow effect?, screendoor effect??

Toshiba's Talen technology is a consideration ??

I forgot, max budjet, 3500$can

Also do we have to but the 500$ rack for the TV (because of special anchors to hold the TV set ??or can we buy another one at our own taste (read wood) ??

The best advice would be to go view the two techs yourself to find out if your even bothered by DLP's rainbows or LCD's screen door

The Toshiba's aren't bad sets but IMO the Samsung DLP's are better as long as you disable their edge enhancement. However if you go digital I still say Sony's SXRD is the current display to beat. Though it will likely be right at (or slightly past) your budget limit...

You should be able to use the "made for" stand or something custom if you like

[Shane Martin]

A few comments:

crt's have the worst "picture quality" and cost marginaly less than a similar sized lcd

LO Freaking L. I needed that laugh. Nobody in all seriousness in the calibration world would make such a comment. Like it or not, CRT is still the best.

Does it burn in? Sure but you need to really do something wrong to do so. Does it need maintenance? Sure but it's very minimal. My convergence hasn't drifted yet since my initial 90 day calibration. Something we do on all TV's every enthusiast buys.

and are affected but unshgielded speakers

LIke? Who makes unshielded speakers now? Nobody. I'ts a non issue.

i have actualy grown sick of the panasonics due to there constant 'macro blocking' during fast images
very natural greens, reflections off the glass can be a concern
again the pioneer is the only one worth considering because it is so advanced
only one with just one glass panel, deepest phospherous cells, best proccessor, plethera of inputs, only one cord inbetween the monitor and processor and finaly displays at 72 fps when watching movies!

I've setup several Panasonic Plasmas and I'm not seeing the macroblocking due to their processor. Only now has Pioneer just made a set worthy of competition to the Panasonic glass otherwise they were way behind due to poor contrast. Are they worth several thousand more? No.

the "best" crt i have seen are either the samsung slim fit or sony's... im sure thats a ways off from what you are refering to
if you are refering to rear projection models the only ones ive seen are intollerable.... im sure there is better but burn in and constant callibration and presumably higher price than entry dlp would make me assume it isnt worth it for most

You basing your comments on the lower barrel of CRT's. Slim fit Samsungs and Sony's are good for a tube and the Sony xbr400 is great but it's not the best. The RPTV's you've seen "intollerable" were not setup correctly. I spent 30 minutes doing an initial calibration on my fathers set and the difference is astronomical. This is nothing that a normal person can't do either. Convergence is a breeze. Just pop AVIA in like you would on any set and go to town. And no they don't require constant calibration and NO they are not more expensive than a cheap DLP. A 55" Mits would run $1600(is what I paid). What 55" DLP can you get for the same money? You can't. The cheapest 55" would run you ~ $2500. Dlps are STILL and have been more expensive. You can get a 44" set for that much in DLP but with rainbows and 11" smaller it aint worth it and you are still getting lesser PQ especially when it comes to contrast.

Also about DLP, what about the infamous rainbow effect?, screendoor effect??

If you can wait, there is a new bulb technology coming that will take away the rainbow issues and give you what you want in terms of long bulb life. They are LED's. Should come out later this year probably June knowing Samsung.

The Sony SXRD sets have dropped in price presumably because they are coming out with newer models. You can buy a 50" for $3500 US retail w/o negotiation. That's what $13k CDN? : :rofl:

The SXRD is the best digital set I've seen thus far. Better than CRT? No but the only set I'd buy and not feel like I'm downgrading.

[peterS]

LIke? Who makes unshielded speakers now? Nobody. I'ts a non issue

me, the last thing id want is a bucking ,maginet that f's up the t/s
the dust is anoying too... personal preference
would be cool if SED is all that though but my coworker who went and saw the demo first hand said it wasnt enough to base any kind of opinion on
controled viewing distance, controled lighting and controled camparisons... they didnt disclose the costy of the SED they were displaying either, which is rumored to be six figures.... not saying it cant be all that, im just waiting till they are actualy released

I've setup several Panasonic Plasmas and I'm not seeing the macroblocking due to their processor. Only now has Pioneer just made a set worthy of competition to the Panasonic glass otherwise they were way behind due to poor contrast. Are they worth several thousand more? No.

we have three that all do it... i see them dayly
are you seriously compairing the two as equal
put analogue on both then see the difference
put a movie in
infact just watch one because it is obviouse you havent
poor contrast :rofl:

:roll:
im sorry but i could not dissagree more with you on that and cant fathom how anyone could feel it is not a level or two above the pack let alone the panasonic

You basing your comments on the lower barrel of CRT's. Slim fit Samsungs and Sony's are good for a tube and the Sony xbr400 is great but it's not the best. The RPTV's you've seen "intollerable" were not setup correctly. I spent 30 minutes doing an initial calibration on my fathers set and the difference is astronomical. This is nothing that a normal person can't do either. Convergence is a breeze. Just pop AVIA in like you would on any set and go to town. And no they don't require constant calibration and NO they are not more expensive than a cheap DLP. A 55" Mits would run $1600(is what I paid). What 55" DLP can you get for the same money? You can't. The cheapest 55" would run you ~ $2500. Dlps are STILL and have been more expensive. You can get a 44" set for that much in DLP but with rainbows and 11" smaller it aint worth it and you are still getting lesser PQ especially when it comes to contrast.

we have that mitsubishi and all of them are too dim to even regard as on the same playing field... to each his own i wouldnt buy either :W

[aud19]

To be fair Peter, the percentage of people who make their own speakers and make them unshielded is so low as to be in-consequential IMO. With that as your specific criteria I can certainly see why you'd have that issue with CRT's but IMO it's not relevent to assisting the general public.

Mostly I want to thank you for getting Shane to so strongly oppose your views :lol: He's the same one who told me a while back that recommending CRT's while of high quality was not worthwhile as they're old and otherwise dead tech and something along the lines of screwing up soundtage :lol: (Which, technically is true. However IMO if you don't mind the size and want the best PQ and a rediculously cheap price, nothing comes close)

[aud19]

Now back to the original post. What matters most is what Frank wants/needs.

So Frank, after all that info are you wanting a digital display still? If so I still recommend the SXRD if you can stretch the budget. Or a Samsung DLP if you decide to go that route

[Tha Freak]

That SXRD is quite nice! (saw it the other day) but the price tag is almost double my budget!!

I was looking closely at a Toshiba DLP Display bur some people tells me that Samsung (you and others) are a better choice?

Why Samsung over Toshiba? I was on the impression that samsung was of lower quality?

I saw the Sony ACL and it’s true it’s not as sharp as a DLP set…

Is that rainbow thing a serious matter? I wasn’t able to see that ranibow thing at all?

Thanks for all the Q’s

[aud19]

Really you should be able to get the 50" SXRD for around $4K CA.... A little over your budget but not double! Are you sure you weren't looking at the 60"?

As for the DLP's if you can wait for the LED-lit models Shane mentioned I would. The rainbows seemingly aren't a problem for you (which is good) but you never know about your spouse, guests etc. As for Samsung, they've been doing DLP the longest and still seem to be one of the better available IMO unless you go very high-end (and high $$$) and if you're spending that much I'd get the 60" SXRD.... Or maybe a FP with a smaller 40-something inch display for non-critical/daytime viewing.

[peterS]

there is no shame in waiting either
you realy have to realize that all this talk about what they can do is out the window when the source material isnt there
if you can budget for more great, but some on this forum spent that amount just on there dvd players to upconvert to hd resolution
if you plan on using it for just movies it is a bad time to buy
wait till bestbuy starts carrying HP (secret!) to see what native 1080p is about and then start worring about if and when bluray/hddvd is common place

if you just watch tv now is good time to buy but if your budget is tight you will reap the benifits of waiting,

keep in mind there are a lot of associated costs, paying for hd programing, upconvert dvd player, a surge protecter with audible warning, and possibly a service plan (i see what comes back i think one is foolish not to do it)

[peterS]

That SXRD is quite nice! (saw it the other day) but the price tag is almost double my budget!!

I was looking closely at a Toshiba DLP Display bur some people tells me that Samsung (you and others) are a better choice?

Why Samsung over Toshiba? I was on the impression that samsung was of lower quality?

I saw the Sony ACL and it’s true it’s not as sharp as a DLP set…

Is that rainbow thing a serious matter? I wasn’t able to see that ranibow thing at all?

Thanks for all the Q’s

"rainbow effect" is used quite liberaly for some reason
being one that cannot see it (most cannot) i can only describe what it should look like

if your eyes move from one corner to another on the screen you will see stray colors resembling a rainbow.... highly debateble if it is even noticable to anyone

it seems the term gets used incorrectly to describe other characteristics of dlp

[Shane Martin]

He's the same one who told me a while back that recommending CRT's while of high quality was not worthwhile as they're old and otherwise dead tech and something along the lines of screwing up soundtage

Its so true. Removing the big screen from the middle of your speakers produced a better sound. It doesn't matter if its an SXRD or a 65" CRT. The counter to this is to move your mains out way out front. This is not feasible for most folks.

However IMO if you don't mind the size and want the best PQ and a rediculously cheap price, nothing comes close)

Is true but it's a dead tech. If you can afford to spend the money on an SXRD or whatever floats your boat, go ahead. I'd buy a 2nd gen SXRD right now if I hadn't already bought a Mits and wanted an HD set and couldn't wait.

That SXRD is quite nice! (saw it the other day) but the price tag is almost double my budget!!

They just dropped the price on them. The first gen models are on sale for $3500US for the 50". I'm not sure what $3,500 US = Canadian wise but it's also possible they haven't dropped the prices yet in the great north.

highly debateble if it is even noticable to anyone

Gives me headaches personally. Others don't notice it. Obviously it's a problem because they are releasing new LED versions of the sets which tout "eliminates rainbows".

If the SXRD isn't affordable, I'd wait. It's not worth it to buy a 720P native set now IMHO. 1080P is coming like it or not and will drive down the price of the 720P sets like crazy. Ps3 will have 1080P as well as BR players and some HD DVD players.

[aud19]

I agree raiinbows aren't anywhere near the problem they once were. There about a problematic as burn in on plasmas/CRT's nowadays (which is not really at all). However for those people especially sensitive to them, I hear it can be quite annoying.

The new LED-lit units do sound like a great solution though, I can't wait to see them!

[Tha Freak]

wait how long ?

[aud19]

Should be available summer'ish

[Shane Martin]

Probably June knowing Samsung. You might wanna surf AVS and see what definitive dates there are. You might also see if there is a power buy on them which would save you more money.