Thinking of a Panny AE700 over my Sharp 9000 DLP PJ...am I crazy?

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  • awtryau89
    Member
    • Dec 2002
    • 69

    Thinking of a Panny AE700 over my Sharp 9000 DLP PJ...am I crazy?

    I've been reading up on the Panny and it has everything I need and a few things that I would like to have. I would love to have HDMI so I could use my Elite upscaling DVD. I could also use DVI through a switcher from my HDTV box but of course that's an extra expense. I have been told the pic on the Panny will be brighter, have better CR and better colors. Am I being brainwashed here? Should I just keep my 9000 or go ahead and make the jump. I will throw this out to everyone for opinions. Thanks.
    Eric Awtry
    War Eagle
  • George Bellefontaine
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Jan 2001
    • 7637

    #2
    Eric, I am not familiar with the Sharp 9000, but I always felt that dlp was the best way to go for contrast and black levels, and that was only after being in the position of owning both dlp and an older generation(1997) lcd projector. But today's lcd projectors are really getting up there in the CONTRAST department: an area where they have been traditionally weak. As far as what you should do, well if you demo the Panny and like what you see better than what you now have ( the 9000), then you will have answered your own question. But I strongly urge you to see the Panny first.
    My Homepage!

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    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 15254

      #3
      I think the Panny is definitely one to check out before buying a moderate cost digital for HT. You just have to figure out what's most important for your viewing pleasure. As George says, DLP often has the best contrast ratio, and the color fidelity on the newer ones is much improved. But the higher CR models seem to be somewhat lower light output.

      DLP has some limitations; rainbows are well known, and bother some folks a lot, and others not at all. YMMV. What bugs me the most about DLP is the temporal dithering visible in low light scenes with motion, due to the limited time to integrate the PWM function of the mirror for each color. Projectors with 6X wheels seem to have the lowest rainbows, but projectors with 4X wheels (Mitsubishi HC900) seem to have less dithering- some report the Mits as having no visible motion dithering. (it's a Matterhorn class projector, 1024X576, 16X9 based on masking XGA chip, using an RGBRGBW color wheel with almost no clear segment). LCD's and LCOS don't have this problem, but generally don't have as good a contrast ratio.

      Do any of these factors bother you in your Sharp? If not, I'd just stay where you are. If they do, then the Panny may be a viable alternative.

      I can't really give you sound advice on what digital projector to buy, as after my last one, I went back to CRT.

      If you want a good "acid test" DVD, I recommend trying the Van Helsing DVD. The intro section in black and white is a great test of the color balance and unifromity across the screen. Also, there are a lot of low light scenes with action which will probably show up any shortcomings, including dithering and posterization. Other demanding DVD's in this regard are the Superbit version of Underworld, Daredevil, Friday the Thirteenth,Cast Away, Attack of the Clones, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Dracula 1931, Forbidden Planet, and Road to Perdition. To say nothing of Dark City.

      Good luck in your hunt- watch before you buy.

      Regards,

      Jon
      the AudioWorx
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      Comment

      • Steve Goff
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2002
        • 186

        #4
        If you aren't bothered by rainbows, I'd also compare the 700 to some of the new single-chip DLPs with seven segment color wheels including a dark green segment. For me, these make the dithering all but un-noticeable, and the native contrast is higher, without resort to a dynamic iris, which works well but not as well. Still, the 700 appears to be a great deal. I'd check out the projector before taking it home, though, to look for dead pixels and vertical banding.
        Steve Goff

        Comment

        • awtryau89
          Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 69

          #5
          Well, I went and did it. I should have the Panny tomorrow and I will compare and let you guys know what I think. I went and looked at the older version of this unit and really liked the brightness and colors. I guess if I have one complaint about my Sharp is its light output and colors. I know I could go the ISF route to get the colors and GS right but $400 into a PJ thats already 3 years old is a little more than I want to do now. I really like the smooth pic of the DLP and that why I chose it over the LCD at the time but I really think I value the good colors and brightness more. I will only know once I get the PJ and live with it for a while. I do know one thing, I do not think I will have any trouble with the blacks and contrast. LCD seems to have come a long way.
          Eric Awtry
          War Eagle

          Comment

          • PMazz
            Senior Member
            • May 2001
            • 861

            #6
            Mine is due Tuesday as well. I've never had a FP so I'm pretty excited. It does seem the digital projector technology is pretty much "there". I'm sure it will still improve, but for now it's price/performance ratio is something I can live with.

            I"m also waiting for cables. I ordered a 15M HDMI cable as well as a VGA and some RG6 for component. I'm curious about the difference in quality I'll see, if any, of the analog vs digital feed. All the analog can be scaled by my HTPC so I'll have plenty of tweaking to do.

            Have you been keeping up with the monster thread at AVS? If not, let me know and I can give you the highlights, as it's about 30 some pages of speculation as the projector has finally gotten into the hands of actual users.

            Good luck with yours.

            Pete
            Birth of a Media Center

            Comment

            • Dean McManis
              Moderator Emeritus
              • May 2003
              • 762

              #7
              I can attest to the fact that LCD has definitely come a long way in the past few years. :B
              And I'm looking forward to hearing how you two like your new Panny AE700 projectors. :T

              Comment

              • awtryau89
                Member
                • Dec 2002
                • 69

                #8
                Okay guys, I will update you on my progress. First of all let me say, I was disappointed in this PJ initially. I had a few issues that I did not know about and I missed a few things that caused me to have a bad initial inpression. I had to adapt my mount to make it work and that took some time. Plexiglass is a wonderful thing though. Second, I purchased a new Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi and did not realize I did not have it set to pass below balck pluge. My first calibrations were all wrong. Also, I had some overscan or pixel cropping issues with this PJ that I did not have with my Sharp. I was upset and thought I made a bad mistake.

                Anyway, after I got the mount fixed properly and adjusted the PJ with the lense shift to get the image as it should be, I was much more happy. As I watched a few movies this weekend and some ESPN HD I still knew something wasn't right. The image didn't pop like I was used to but I knew I had calibrated properly with Avia. Finally it dawned on me about the 0.0 IRE. After I set this and recalibrated...WOW! This is one fine PJ, especially for the money. Now let me say, if I could have a Sharp 12000 for the same money, of course I would take it but I wouldn't pay much more. First of all, this PJ is much quieter than my old 9K. It is also a good bit brighter. The colors are much more realistic and saturated. I am using the Natural Mode at -1 on the color temp. This has been reported to be as close to 6500K as this PJ can get uncalibrated. I have seen the graphs and they are close so I will be satisfied. Contrast and black levels are great. Yes, I can even say they are better than my 9K. I have seen better on expensive DLPs but my reservations from my initial experience with LCDs are gone. This PJ has very good CR compared to any other PJ. It may not be the best but it is certainly good enough for me and I do not think I will be wanting more any time soon. Another reservation with LCD is also gone and thats what I called a "videolike" picture. DLPs always seem to be so much smoother. Well the 700 has bridged the gap. This is one area that I really am sensitive to and I keep smiling and thinking to myself as I watch this PJ. It has a very smooth, filmlike picture. I do not see any vertical banding and hope not to. I did the flicker tweak even so.

                Anyway, I hate to keep gushing but I am very proud of my latest purchase. I do not think I will be returning it. I do not want to mislead anyone here though. But one thing I will say, if I did not like this PJ, I would say so. I can return this PJ and trade out to any other PJ with my dealer. That is one of the reasons I purchased where I did. So what I am trying to say is, if this PJ wasn't any good, I would say soand just return it. I hope this mini-review helps. I wasn't too specific but if there are any pointed questions, fire away.

                System
                Dedicated light controlled room
                Carada 96" CCW 16x9 Screen
                Elite 59AAVi DVD (Comp feed for now, HDMI coming next week)
                Hughes HTL-HD Satt (same as above, DVI coming next week)
                Eric Awtry
                War Eagle

                Comment

                • George Bellefontaine
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Jan 2001
                  • 7637

                  #9
                  Glad you like the 700, Eric. No doubt that LCD is close to kicking dlp's butt when it comes to the contrast department.
                  My Homepage!

                  Comment

                  • Bam!
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 2458

                    #10
                    ...I'm with Jon....nothing really bothers me with DLP EXCEPT that dang dithering......that gets to me....

                    BUT....LCDs just don't really do it for me either only because having grey for black really is annoying....and the screen door effect blows my mind....unless you don't go too big and ofcourse have a HD LCD.......

                    Anyways...just my 2 cents.

                    If I could.....a used CRT with 8 inch guns would be my cup of tea.....
                    Got a nice rack to show me ?

                    Comment

                    • awtryau89
                      Member
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 69

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bam!
                      ...I'm with Jon....nothing really bothers me with DLP EXCEPT that dang dithering......that gets to me....

                      BUT....LCDs just don't really do it for me either only because having grey for black really is annoying....and the screen door effect blows my mind....unless you don't go too big and ofcourse have a HD LCD.......

                      Anyways...just my 2 cents.

                      If I could.....a used CRT with 8 inch guns would be my cup of tea.....
                      You know the dithering always was a huge bother for me as well. In watching HD football for 2 days, I have really enjoyed not having that annoyance as that it where I noticed the most. Screen Door is not a problem with this Panny in my setup. Finally, I thought I had a gripe about contrast and blacks but it seems to be source dependant. I really was bothered by the blacks being too black with no real detail tonight on CSI-Miami. Then I threw in my new Star Wars Episode V disc tonight and was blown away again by the level of shadow detail and depth. I have also noticed a good bit better blacks on other HD material. I am continuously blown away by the colors though. I guess that was the Sharp 9000s week point in being it had bad greens and this affected the overall color pallette. This Panny is just so much better in this area.
                      Eric Awtry
                      War Eagle

                      Comment

                      • Dean McManis
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • May 2003
                        • 762

                        #12
                        I was quite surprised with the Infocus 5700 (LCD) that I recently got.
                        It was actually a match in blacks with my last DLP FPTV (which was very good) and the added brightness gave it more punch on my big screen. 8)

                        awtryau89,

                        I'm glad to hear that you got everything dialed in to your satisfaction. :T

                        -Dean.

                        Comment

                        • Evil Twin
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 1531

                          #13
                          Originally posted by awtryau89
                          Well, I went and did it. I should have the Panny tomorrow and I will compare and let you guys know what I think. I went and looked at the older version of this unit and really liked the brightness and colors. I guess if I have one complaint about my Sharp is its light output and colors. I know I could go the ISF route to get the colors and GS right but $400 into a PJ thats already 3 years old is a little more than I want to do now. I really like the smooth pic of the DLP and that why I chose it over the LCD at the time but I really think I value the good colors and brightness more. I will only know once I get the PJ and live with it for a while. I do know one thing, I do not think I will have any trouble with the blacks and contrast. LCD seems to have come a long way.
                          How many hours do you have on your original Sharp? Any possibility that gradual lamp degradation is the source of your discontent? The power of the dark side is strong with the Sharp, but it may need a new lamp....
                          DFAL
                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                          Comment

                          • awtryau89
                            Member
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 69

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Evil Twin
                            How many hours do you have on your original Sharp? Any possibility that gradual lamp degradation is the source of your discontent? The power of the dark side is strong with the Sharp, but it may need a new lamp....
                            No this was not an issue. I only had 300 plus hours on the lamp it the PJ at the time I sold it. It was practically new. Just to be clear, I was not really "dissatisfied" with the Sharp. My major reasons for upgrade were HDMI and quieter fan initially. Afterwards I found I had definitely made the right choice for me.
                            Eric Awtry
                            War Eagle

                            Comment

                            • awtryau89
                              Member
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 69

                              #15
                              UH OH! We have some problems!

                              Well I am now on day 4 with the PJ. I was in total bliss considering the price to performance ratio. Then tonight it happened. The Vertical Banding appeared. I have been following the comments about this issue over at AVS and because my PJ had not exhibited this problem, I thought most were overreacting. Well tonight on my PJ its like it appeared out of nowhere. This problem is not slight either. I could clearly see it on most material. Well I went in and performed the flicker test and it cleared right up but this little problem has me worried. I just do not like to be bothered by things like this. We shall see but I won't have problems like this in my PJs whether I have to spend more or not.
                              Eric Awtry
                              War Eagle

                              Comment

                              • George Bellefontaine
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Jan 2001
                                • 7637

                                #16
                                I was hoping the Panny had that problem (VB) solved. Guess not.
                                My Homepage!

                                Comment

                                • awtryau89
                                  Member
                                  • Dec 2002
                                  • 69

                                  #17
                                  Well, I'm out here. The VB banding problem is real people. I have been told that some are much more sensitive to it just like DLP rainbows and understand that this could be the case. I guess I am much more sensitive to it. Funny thing is, I have never seen a DLP rainbow and I have tried. I just couldn't stand the idea of having to turn the PJ off at the mains. Although not a real hassle, this tells me the PJ has a design flaw and this really irks me . My PJ for one, was much worse after leaving it on standby versus cutting the power. I checked it numerous times overnight in the 6 days I have had it. No matter how great a deal it is, the longer I keep it the more I continue to notice the VB. Another issue for me was the white flashes and the lack of sync on the HDMI. I did have white flashes on DVD and HD proabably 2-3 times each night. These really did not bother me that much. The main issue for me was the sync issues I had with my Hughes HTL-HD. I wanted to run the Hughes on Native so I could let the PJs 3:2 pulldown work on 1080i. Well this was almost impossble because anytime I changed channels from a 1080i source to a 720p source I got a white snowy screen. Sometimes it would then sync and sometimes I was left with the snow. I had to switch back and forth numerous times to get it to sync. This really pushed me over the edge as I had not ever had this problem before on another DVI device I have in the house. Anyway, I am not a troll or trying to bash this PJ. I just want to report the problems I had for others in my situation to read. I was a DLP owner previously and wanted to upgrade my PJ. I looked at other DLPs but thought that LCD had really caught up (which it has in many ways) and I could get comparable performance for much less. Well the performance is good but the quirks are too much for me to handle. These problems may be minor to some and can be overlooked by many because the overall performance but I personally cannot though. Back to my DLP for me.
                                  Eric Awtry
                                  War Eagle

                                  Comment

                                  • George Bellefontaine
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Jan 2001
                                    • 7637

                                    #18
                                    Too bad, Eric, but these things cost money and we have to be satisfied. I own both lcd and dlp and by far prefer the dlp picture even though I do see the occasional rainbow. But like you, the VB on my lcd is very bothersome, especially after watching a movie on my dlp. The picture is just so much more smoother and filmlike on my NEC dlp. I am considering replacing my old lcd ( it's a Sony vlp, the first true widescreen PJ) and have given some thought to the Infocus 5000. Dean, owns one of these. Perhaps he will let us know if he sees any VB on the Infocus. Otherwise he is very high on this PJ and it msrp's for $1999USD.
                                    My Homepage!

                                    Comment

                                    • Brandon B
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Jun 2001
                                      • 2193

                                      #19
                                      I have VB on my Sanyo, and can tell you the Sonys are a lot better in this regard. My neighbor's HS20 has no more than trace evidence of this compared to mine.

                                      BB

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