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  • AvFan
    Member
    • Feb 2006
    • 45

    Glad your setup is working well. I found my M&Ks really like more power. I have LCR 850s for Left, Center and Right plus two Surround 55s. When I switched to an ATI 2005 amp (up to 300w/channel at 4 ohms all channels driven) from a Pioneer (100w/channel probably not all channels driven) the speakers really came alive. I understand Denon is pretty straight forward with the ratings of their amp sections so you are probably getting more juice than before. Its all good... Enjoy!

    Comment

    • John Holmes
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 2703

      Glad to know everything is sounding good.

      Like AvFan, I found my speakers to also benefit from a little more juice. However, I had no real complaints with their performance prior to adding the extra watts.

      I would add that, while the amp did make a difference, placement yield a larger result. I've played with my speaker's position quite a bit. And after thinking that I had them sounding pretty good, I still had this nagging urge about something that Barry Ober (M&K guru) said. "Vertical placement is crucial with the 650/750/850 series"

      I have been using 22" stands with my speakers. But, the speakers are advertised with 30" stands. Not to mention a lab test by one of the HT mags, also stated that this speaker does better with the tweeter slightly above ear level.

      Well, I used a couple of items I had around the house to achieve the 8" lift required. Well I'll be...it did make a difference. For me there was a considerable added clarity, to what I thought sound pretty to begin with.

      I just thought I should share this b/c, nothing will give your better results than, proper speaker placement, Sound Pressure Level adjustments using a meter and room treatment (and not the spendy kind either).
      "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

      Comment

      • mattburk
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2003
        • 248

        Originally posted by John Holmes
        Hello WilDD85, Welcome to the Guide!

        I don't have the pdf nor do I own any S85's. However, I'm pretty sure they are a 4 ohm load. I believe the S85's will handle 150-200w (trying to recall from memory). So, most receivers in the mid to upper levels should work. Also, most will state in the specs if they are 4 ohm stable.

        The big issue with blowing speakers usually isn't too much power but, using an amp with too little power. People tend to push smaller amps too hard. This causes the amp to clip. Which sends a bad/irregular waveform to the speaker. This is the most common culprit of blown speakers.

        Welcome to the M&K club!
        I have the manuel. 4 ohm, 10rms, 50-200
        www.mycstone.com
        www.coverednow.com
        www.biarenton.com

        Comment

        • mattburk
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2003
          • 248

          any new word on the danish company that purchased m&k?
          www.mycstone.com
          www.coverednow.com
          www.biarenton.com

          Comment

          • John Holmes
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 2703

            I've heard nothing new. Though to be honest, I wasn't expecting to. I just don't believe their timeline was realistic. Anything this year would be a shock to me.
            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

            Comment

            • artv4
              Senior Member
              • Jun 2007
              • 277

              hi

              another company purchased m&k........
              GO Revel!!!!! (powered by ;x( Anthem)

              Comment

              • AvFan
                Member
                • Feb 2006
                • 45

                John,

                I agree about the placement of the tweeter above ear level and I found this out by accident the other day. My tweeters are currently about 10" above my ear level. I like tweeking speaker placement to see what changes occur and I thought angling the speaker down a tad so the front baffle was perpendicular to my face (it worked out to tilt them 4 degrees) would make them sound better. Just the opposite happened. The stereo image was less defined and overall it just didn't sound as good as before I tilted them. It caught me by surprise. Thanks for passing along Barry Obers insight into placement of those series of speakers. As usual, he is/was spot on with his recommendations. I still keep his emails for reference.

                As far as speaker placement, I sit about 12 feet away from my 850s and the L and R are spread only 8 feet apart. That is not per the 850 manual which recommends you create an equalateral triangle with the L and R and the primary listening position. I didn't really like that because it made sounds that pan across the screen really sound like they were way off screen first as I have a 42 inch plasma versus a projector and screen. It was a little annoying so I started moving the speakers in closer. I also listen to a lot of stereo music and I seemed to get the tightest center image at an 8 foot spacing with the speakers slightly toed in. Oh, and I've reversed the L and R so the angled (4.7 degrees) tweeter in the 850 is angled towards the listener.

                John, I'm curious how you and other M&K owners have set up their speakers. As I said, I like to tweek placement and knowing how others have tilted, toed, and spaced their speakers would probably yield improvement in the how I hear my speakers. Thanks for your thoughts!

                Comment

                • John Holmes
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 2703

                  AvFan,

                  Like you, I tend to play with placement every now and then. Just to see what results I get. So I was really happy (and shocked) when the results of high tweeter placement worked so well.

                  As far as your point about not liking the results of equalateral placement, I fully understand why. When I had a 32" and 56" tv for my movie viewing, it never worked! I was dealing with exactly the same issue. Once I went FPTV, I was able to get the proper separation between the L/R's.

                  So, I sit 8' from the speakers. They are 8ft apart. My ears are 37" from the floor. My tweeters are at 43". The speakers are 28.5" from the front wall. I use no toe-in. I've played with various levels of toe-in including, directly aiming at my ears. No matter the level used, I could never get a satisfying balance with the speakers toed in.

                  My screen is 80" (92"diagonal) wide. And I have no issues with the sound not matching with whats on screen. So, I think until you go with a larger display (if that is something you actually want to do), you will have the same problem.
                  "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                  Comment

                  • John Holmes
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 2703

                    BTW, I agree, Barry was a true asset! He really took time to explain the How's and Why's. The tough part of this hobby is knowing what should be done, and attempting to balance that with what you can do! For most of us, everything is a compromise. Even most with dedicated rooms.
                    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                    Comment

                    • AvFan
                      Member
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 45

                      John,

                      Your front speakers are a very precise 28.5 inches from the front wall. Have you tried different distances from the front wall? Did 28.5 inches from the front wall impact the sound as much as the tweeter height?

                      My 850s are against the front wall (approx 2" away). I thought it would be OK since they are a sealed enclosure. No complaints from me but wondering if you've tested different spacings to the front wall.

                      Comment

                      • John Holmes
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 2703

                        AvFan,

                        All speakers (regardless of design) are effected by boundry gain. Port types are more sensitive but, sealed are also influenced. If it was up to me, my speakers would be 4-5ft into the room. But, I just don't have the space to do it.

                        My very precise 28.5" lol, was the simple result of my equalateral triangle from my listening position. However, I have played with the distance from my front wall. And yes, there is a difference.

                        Having your speakers further into the room gives you what I'm sure you've heard descibed as "depth of soundstage". It allows the instruments (as well as vocals and spatial cues) to have their own space during playback. Idealy, this would be the same positions they were in during the recording process. This also helps to add a more realistic presence to film as well.


                        As to which yieled the most results between height or depth. That's hard to say. Both are pretty astounding. But, if I had to choose, it would be height. It's the easiest in most cases to fix. Make no mistake though, the further your L/C/R's are from the wall, the clarity and 3-D stage will improve.

                        Again, this hobby is about compromise. If your room, lifestyle (or you simply don't like the aesthetics), will only allow you the 2" that's fine. As long as you are satisfied with the sound. One thing that is important, "mirror image" Try to duplicate the position of left speaker with the right (or vise-verse). Same height, toe, distance from wall...well you get it.
                        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                        Comment

                        • AvFan
                          Member
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 45

                          John,

                          I have a couple of 2x4/plywood stands (to test out a couple of RAW Acoustics ribbon MTMs) that would put the tweeter about 5" above my ears so I may try moving the L and R speakers out in the room just for fun. I'll let you know what I hear even though ultimately they will have to be up against the wall for aesthetic reasons in my family room.

                          Besides speaker placement you mentioned room treatments as another significant way of improving the sound from an HT. I have messed around with some 1" and 2" Knauf fiber board (similar acoustic specs to Owens Corning 703) with good results. I intend to put the 2" along the walls at the first reflection points and I covered the floor with a thick rug (over tile). The family vetoed my idea of some tasteful (at least to me) panels on the ceiling FRPs. I've seen absorbing material placed behind the speakers. Have you done this? Are they intended to catch reflections due to the radiance from the back of the cabinet?

                          Comment

                          • John Holmes
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 2703

                            AvFfan,

                            Sorry, I've been away for a few days.

                            Let us know what you think with the speaker placement. You may want to put your L/R on their proper sides though when you try it. :W You can always reverse them again when you put them back in their normal positons.

                            When it comes to room treatment, I think you have plenty with just the basics. Meaning, rugs, drapes, maybe a few media racks to breakup reflections and a bookcase (with books, dvd's, cd's, etc). This kind of stuff should be enough in most cases. If you do this and still aren't getting decent results, then maybe go the other route. I know M&K (before they folded) put a picture of a room they setup at their plant on the website. This room was setup with no treatment. They stated that the room was setup to reflect a real world room. In this room, visitors could hear the speakers like they would at home. The room had the 1500, 750 and 150's iirc setup. And all the speakers were only a few inches from the front wall. Some were even close to the side walls as well.

                            So, I wouldn't loose sleep with them being against the wall. Just understand that they can and well sound better with a little space.

                            As far as my setup, I just have the basics for treatment. And am very satisfied with the sound. I've spent no cash acoustic treaments.
                            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                            Comment

                            • AvFan
                              Member
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 45

                              John,

                              I'll probably try moving the speakers out sometime this week; I'm just curious how they will sound with the extra space behind them. I recall that part of the M&K web site that talked about real world conditions. Unless a person is designing a dedicated HT compromises must be made on any number of items when setting up a system. I imagine those that have the luxury of designing a room from the ground up still have to make some compromises.

                              I have a big wall to the right of my right speaker (the opposite side has heavy drapes) and it is a good place for my wife to hang one of her small handmade quilts. It will be at the FRP for the right speaker so we will get a two-fer out of the deal; a nice looking wall hanging and improved sound. I may put some acoustic fiber board behind too. I tested that spot with a 2" piece of Knauf board and it improved the "balance" in the room. Its all good fun.

                              All of this is just tweeking on what I think are fine sounding speakers. I hate to say I'm done buying speakers, but I really like my 850s across the front. With M&K out of business if a tweeter or woofer dies I probably won't be able to get them fixed and that would be the only reason I'd go back into the market for speakers. For example, I'm currently trying to fix a pair of blown M&K Bookshelf 75s and its turning out to be a real effort.

                              Comment

                              • John Holmes
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 2703

                                Unless a person is designing a dedicated HT compromises must be made on any number of items when setting up a system. I imagine those that have the luxury of designing a room from the ground up still have to make some compromises
                                This is very true. It would cost an extreme amount of money to build the perfect room. I use the term extreme because, I'm just not sure the gain is justified for most. But, for the man/woman who has everything...

                                I'm really curious to hear what you think of the sound, once you've pulled your speakers into the room. So much tweaking, so little time!
                                "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                Comment

                                • AvFan
                                  Member
                                  • Feb 2006
                                  • 45

                                  John and other M&K fans, a couple of things to report...

                                  First, it looks like M&K may be back in business. Check out http://mixonline.com/news/mandk-soun...407/index.html. A couple of the Los Angeles folks (Chris Minto and Chris Hagen) are back at the company "purchased" by two European distributors. I imagine the new crew has some significant hurdles to clear before actually offering product but there is a chance! I wonder if they are going to focus their attention on the pro side of the house first, follow up later with the consumer products or make a go as an on-line retailer?

                                  Second, I moved my L&R 850s out into my room with wonderful results. The speakers are on stands that put the tweeters about 6" above my ears. I maintained an 8' equilateral triangle with the speakers and my listening position. The speakers are about 2.5' from the back wall and 3.5' from the side walls. It produced a better stereo image and more soundstage. I have the L & R reversed so the angled tweeter was aimed at the listening position. When I switched them back to "normal" the highs from the right speaker got lost in a short hallway to my garage so they got switched back. I also tried them with and without the metal grills but if there is a difference it was subtle and I didn't notice. Anyway, this configuration won't fit my normal listening situation, but I'm not getting rid of my stands. There may be times when I want to just listen to music and they will come in handy. John, thanks for the tips on placement it was a fun experiment.

                                  Comment

                                  • Chris D
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Dec 2000
                                    • 16877

                                    ah, there's hope?
                                    CHRIS

                                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                    - Pleasantville

                                    Comment

                                    • John Holmes
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 2703

                                      AvFan,

                                      Thanks for posting the info about M&K. I'm glad there is atleast a glimmer of light, at the end of the tunnel. Though, I would still be shocked to see anything from them this year.

                                      As for your thoughts about which side of the house they may work on first? I believe that was part of the reason M&K began to go down hill. IMO, they stretched themselves way too thin. Too many products to keep up with. With a few being mirror images of the pro or consumer side (depending on your point of view). To give that many products, the attention of QA they wanted to deliver, requires a ton of man hours. I hope the new guys shrink the model count. Or , just concentrate on one side of the house. M&K made great products. If the "new" M&K produce the same or better, people will buy them! I doubt people will care it they were built for pro or consumer applications. In the end, sound and reliabilty will win every time!

                                      Now to your little experiment. Congrats! I'm glad you got a chance to hear what these babies can really do. I'm not surprised to know that you lost some of your highs in normal setting. They were designed to give a wide window of sound. So with one of your tweeters angled to open space, it's understandable you would have some balance issues. The good thing is, now you know what they can do so, when the time or place is right, you can really take them to the next level.

                                      BTW, your welcome! It was my pleasure. Helping each other is why we are here.
                                      "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                      Comment

                                      • AvFan
                                        Member
                                        • Feb 2006
                                        • 45

                                        John,

                                        I agree the new M&K should shorten their list of products. Products like the S-150 series, 750/850s, and a limited number of subs seemed to be their bread and butter. Even though my first purchase was in their "K" line I can't imagine they were huge sellers. And what was with the Xenon speakers? I wonder if M&K will become an e-tailer. A number of companies (Outlaw and Ascend come to mind) have done very well with this business model and it cuts prices if there are no distributors. Only time will tell.

                                        I've left my 850s on these ugly stands for a few days to give them a good listen (I'm getting a couple of side glances from my family!) . I'm a Dave Matthews fan and I've been listening/watching his new acoustic DVD with the speakers out in the room. I think it sounds much better in stereo than 5.1. And now back to the show...

                                        Comment

                                        • pras1011
                                          Member
                                          • Nov 2005
                                          • 37

                                          m&k surrounds

                                          I have 850 at the front and s85 at the rear. I want to get 850 for the rear but i was told this is not a good idea.
                                          I have a sofa flat against the rear wall. I have the s85 firing at the listener. they slightly about head height and are about 1.1m away from the listener.


                                          Which speaker would better for the rear: the surround 26 or surround 55?

                                          Comment

                                          • John Holmes
                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 2703

                                            Originally posted by pras1011
                                            I have 850 at the front and s85 at the rear. I want to get 850 for the rear but i was told this is not a good idea.
                                            I have a sofa flat against the rear wall. I have the s85 firing at the listener. they slightly about head height and are about 1.1m away from the listener.


                                            Which speaker would better for the rear: the surround 26 or surround 55?
                                            That is interesting. Were you given a reason as to why the 850's would not be good for rears? Dolby recommends matching speakers all around.
                                            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                            Comment

                                            • pras1011
                                              Member
                                              • Nov 2005
                                              • 37

                                              The reason was that I was sitting far too close. There are lots of people telling me to get tripoles and there are others that are telling me to get the identical speakers!

                                              Comment

                                              • AvFan
                                                Member
                                                • Feb 2006
                                                • 45

                                                I have the surround 55s with 850s across the front and I'm very happy with the setup. However, I don't sit against a back wall. I think the surround 26s have different tweeters and so I wouldn't recommend them.

                                                I think 850s at 1.1 m would be too much speaker and the 55s would be a better choice due to their tripole configuration. 850s as surrounds would be the best choice choice if all your speakers were the same distance from the primary listening position.

                                                Here is another idea that might save you some money: try moving your S85s forward slightly (.25 meter) and aim them at the wall behind your sofa and see what happens. The idea is to get a diffuse sound field behind the listener and the sound bouncing off the back wall might be better than having the S85s aimed directly at you. If you have an irregular shaped object on the back wall it might help diffuse the sound. For example I've seen suggestions to have tall book cases with a different sized books along the back wall to help diffuse the sound.

                                                Have fun experimenting!

                                                Comment

                                                • John Holmes
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 2703

                                                  I agree with AvFan, I'd go with the 55's over the 26's. The 55's are great speakers and will more than fit the bill. However, I do not agree with the 850 being too much at the distance. That is why we have proper level settings for the speakers. If your sure that you situation (maybe a house or even room change) is pretty stable, the 55's are worth a look.
                                                  "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                  Comment

                                                  • John Holmes
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                    • 2703

                                                    pras1011,

                                                    I thought I should also add, you could use 550's for rears with very good results.

                                                    I should also mention, your s85's are very,very good speakers! While not voiced the same as your 850's, the s85 are still considered by many one of M&K's top speaker every made.

                                                    Are your speakers currently at ear level?
                                                    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                    Comment

                                                    • pras1011
                                                      Member
                                                      • Nov 2005
                                                      • 37

                                                      Hi John. Are the surround 55 voiced better for the 850? I love the s85 but they sound different to the 850. I thought that the surround 550 has only got the front firing drivers and are not tripoles (so therefore not as good as the surround 55)

                                                      Comment

                                                      • John Holmes
                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                        • 2703

                                                        You are are correct about the single driver in the 550. However, it is voiced as a compilment surround for the 750/850 speakers.

                                                        If you place your surrounds (rears) 2-3ft above the listening position (like Dolby suggest) and have them facing each other, I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to tell a difference between the 55 tripole vs. the 550 monopole.

                                                        Mainly because, your seating is against the rear wall. The tripole really needs a few feet from the back wall to do it's thing. You are going to get about the same splay (reflection) from the 550, for a less money. If your listening position were away from the wall, you would have a few more options.
                                                        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                        Comment

                                                        • pras1011
                                                          Member
                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                          • 37

                                                          Isn't the Surround 550 just like the LCR55? And in that case shouldn't I get the 850 for the rear then?

                                                          Comment

                                                          • John Holmes
                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 2703

                                                            Originally posted by pras1011
                                                            Isn't the Surround 550 just like the LCR55? And in that case shouldn't I get the 850 for the rear then?
                                                            I believe this was my first suggestion! :W

                                                            And yes, LCR-55 and SS-550 are what and what. Not enough of a difference to loose sleep over. One could even argue that, the only major difference from one model to the next, is output. So as you move up, you get more sound to fill your space. Since IMO, they all have the "M&K sound" and blend well together. Albeit, some better than others.

                                                            I would think that, you could get "any" M&K 1998-2007 with the metal grilles and be pretty satisfied. However, for a more balanced soundfield, the 850 would be your best choice.
                                                            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                            Comment

                                                            • pras1011
                                                              Member
                                                              • Nov 2005
                                                              • 37

                                                              Thanks John and Avfan. Before I asked peoples advice, I was 100% sure that I wanted to get 850s for the rear. But some AV experts were "no no you need tripoles". But now you John are telling me to go back to my s850 idea. Therefore I will. All I have to do now is find some and they are very rare. Do you know of anyone thats selling some?

                                                              Comment

                                                              • John Holmes
                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                • 2703

                                                                Now finding a pair...I can only suggest the usual channels. Audiogon, ebay, etc. Also check the forums sale areas.

                                                                Good hunting!
                                                                "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                Comment

                                                                • pras1011
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                  • 37

                                                                  I have found some s125, would these be good as rears? I was told that s125 were better than the 850, is this correct?

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • John Holmes
                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                    • 2703

                                                                    It's a matter of choice. Some would say yes, others...

                                                                    The s125 uses the THX x-over. It's going to be a little different sound from the 850's but will work. The real question for me would be, are the S125 going to give you better results than the S85 you already own?

                                                                    I would guess that, if you are unhappy with the current rears, the s125 won't be much better. Neither were made to blend with the 850.
                                                                    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • pras1011
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Nov 2005
                                                                      • 37

                                                                      Thanks John. How about the 750 (I am throwing all sorts of speakers at you because I cant find any 850). I am happy with the s85 but I want to see what the overall sound would be like if I had 5 identical speakers.

                                                                      What m&k speakers will blend with the 850?

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • John Holmes
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                        • 2703

                                                                        Barry Ober (of then M&K) thought the difference between the 750 vs 850 enough to say, the 850's were an upgrade.

                                                                        I would just be patient. Hold on to my cash. And wait until you find a pair. You could even check retailers that used to carry the brand. You never know if a few may have some old stock left.

                                                                        Another alternative, you could sell your 850's. Then, purchase one of the lines within M&K (or any other brand) which is more available, that will allow you identical speakers all around.

                                                                        Just FYI, I don't have matching sides or rears for my 750's in my 7.1 setup. Neither are even M&K! Do I plan to change them...I did for a long time, and still may. But honestly, the difference with my equipment, in my room has never made me feel I was lacking. My room sounds pretty darn good to me. I just know that it can sound even better.

                                                                        Also, I really want the s150's for my front soundstage... Just because! But if that ever happens, I'm almost positive I'll just move the 750's to side and rear duties. Unless I get a deal I cannot refuse on matching s150's or ss150's.
                                                                        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • pras1011
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                          • 37

                                                                          Hi John. Before I got the S85 for the rear I did have the LCR55. I sold the LCR55 just before I got the S85, thinking that it was going to be a better speaker anyway. The LCR55 were alot louder and I could hear the "surround effects" alot better. I never needed to tinker with the level settings at all. However when I started using the s85 they were alot quieter and till this day I am still tinkering to get the level setting right as I cant hear the "surround effect" very well. The s85 maybe the better speaker but it seems that the LCR55 matched the 850s alot better than the s85.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • John Holmes
                                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                                            • 2703

                                                                            Yes, staying with the same family of speaker "brings balance to the Force!" uh..I mean your soundfield. I got lucky that mine is pretty close using other speakers.

                                                                            And as you've found out, the higher end product, isn't what is necessarily best for one's situation.
                                                                            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • John Holmes
                                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                                              • 2703

                                                                              Originally posted by John Holmes
                                                                              It's a matter of choice. Some would say yes, others...

                                                                              The s125 uses the THX x-over. It's going to be a little different sound from the 850's but will work. The real question for me would be, are the S125 going to give you better results than the S85 you already own?

                                                                              I would guess that, if you are unhappy with the current rears, the s125 won't be much better. Neither were made to blend with the 850.
                                                                              pras1011,

                                                                              I apologize, I stated that the s125 has the THX x-over- this is my assumption! I don't know if this is fact. I know that the s125 were paired often with the ss-150thx. Thus my assumption. I meant to put this in italic print but forgot. Sorry for the mishap! ops:
                                                                              "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • AvFan
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • Feb 2006
                                                                                • 45

                                                                                pras1011,

                                                                                Up until a few months ago I used a pair of LCR 851s for my L and R and a S125c center. They were great, but I didn't think they matched well with each other. I replaced these three with all new LCR 850s. There was a noticeable improvement in the sound of the three 850s over the 851/S-125C combination. I think you would notice the difference between your 850s if you used S125s for your surrounds. I can't say if it would be as pronounced as how the S85s sound compared to the 850s, but I think you would notice.

                                                                                I like John's suggestion to hold tight for a while and watch Audiogon and eBay for the right set of surround speakers to show up. It is surprising how often the various M&K models show up on eBay. From the discussion above it looks like these speakers would be on your short list of options: LCR850, Surround 55, LCR55, and SS-550. I'd think the 750 would be another option to consider given how close it is to your 850s.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • svphile
                                                                                  Junior Member
                                                                                  • Nov 2007
                                                                                  • 4

                                                                                  surronds and my own ? new member

                                                                                  In response to matching new surrounds with 850's:

                                                                                  I'd look at the 650's instead of the 850's for surrounds (but 850's would be fine). They use the same drivers, smaller for close placement, and cheaper. I'd also be careful about matching different model M&K's together. M&K designed specific speakers to run as a whole system. You can do it but it might screw with your timber matching.

                                                                                  Direct radiating speakers vs di-pole speakers for surrounds is a users preference. One isn't better than the other IMO.

                                                                                  My ? and thanks for any replies:

                                                                                  Does anyone think running S-150's at full range for 2 channel stereo through my Arcam AVR350 would possibly cause any damage? I have them set to small because they were designed for THX and roll off at 80 to the sub for bass. They don't reproduce much bass but I'd like to have a listen using the Dircect function with the Arcam. Don't know how I'd get them repaired if anything went wrong? Guys at M&K always told me the drivers could be blown if they were set to large an got to much full range. I guess I could use common sense and try it at low listening levels and see what happens. Not sure it is even worth it seeing as how they are not great for reproducing bass.

                                                                                  Anyway to bi-amp M&K's? I don't see how I could?

                                                                                  I hope the new website is up and running soon. Long time M&K customer and I still can't believe they went under. I've owned several M&k subs and the 750's/550's.

                                                                                  My current system:

                                                                                  3 s-150's
                                                                                  2 ss-150's
                                                                                  1 MX-350SFX
                                                                                  Arcam AVR-350
                                                                                  Denon 3910
                                                                                  Dirctv HR-20
                                                                                  360
                                                                                  Mit WT-46809

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • svphile
                                                                                    Junior Member
                                                                                    • Nov 2007
                                                                                    • 4

                                                                                    surrounds

                                                                                    I forgot,

                                                                                    Take a look at the column surrounds. They are perfect if you are sitting directly against a back wall. I really like their diffused surround sound. Upward firing drivers at the top of the column and a woofer at the bottom of the column. There is a nice looking pair on audiogon now. Just a thought.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • John Holmes
                                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                                                      • 2703

                                                                                      Good input AvFan!
                                                                                      "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • John Holmes
                                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                                        • 2703

                                                                                        Welcome to the Guide svphile!

                                                                                        Nice system you have. And you brought up good points about looking at the columns and 650's. I tend forget the columns exist.

                                                                                        As to running your s-150's full range, not sure that's going to bode well. From a sound aspect that is. They just don't go low enough, period.

                                                                                        FYI, I did try my 750's full range with my Sansui Au-317 integrated once. I was actually quite shocked at how good they sound in that configuration. It was especially clean with very good midrange and dynamics. But it just didn't cut it for much below 80hz.

                                                                                        I don't know about blowing them from the low info. I'm just not educated enough in that area to comment.
                                                                                        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • pras1011
                                                                                          Member
                                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                                          • 37

                                                                                          The internal crossover should block out anything below the speakers frequency range

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • John Holmes
                                                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                                                            • 2703

                                                                                            Yes, however, x-overs aren't brickwalls. They have a slope thus, freqs lower than the x-over point do get through. Now if it's enough to cause damage would probably depend on an extreme level of playback.
                                                                                            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                                            Comment

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