Club Anthem

[mitch57]

I really want to wish you good luck Jerry.

I know what you're going through, and hope everything will be at your satisfaction. Up here, Anthem customer services is nothing short of incredible for me, my dealer and my friends.

I'm really surprised with all this. But keep us updated.

So what's up with the sudden change of heart? First you chastize him for his comments and now you're saying you know what he's going through and sympathize with him. I don't get it. What am I missing here?

[LEVESQUE]

Ok. So if I'm "chastizing" him, it's bad, but if i try to be nice, it's bad... :roll:

Sigh... That's the net. What can we do? :B

Me and Jerry are often talking over PMs and e-mails. So you only see the "tip of the iceberg" here. I'm not against Jerry, and far from it! I'm an end user just like him, and I'm enjoying my D2 (and all of my firends with one also) so much, that I'm just trying to put some balance back on Jerry's comments.

Jerry is really frustrated by all this (and it's normal!), and he's sometimes saying some strong things on the net like that "50% of D2s are bad" when it's totally untrue. When you read the net, you think it's true... But when you take the time to verify those informations, you see that you only get a really small part of the real story on the net.

Just like the guy that got "5" D2s. He broke 3 himself, and installed a 4th one on a thick carpet... So does this makes all the D2s he got bad unit? There was only one bad unit. Same thing with the guy using 4 different alias. It's not 4 bad units. It's not even 1, since he broke the D2 himself while playing in it. Breaking the HDMI connector is "not covered under warranty", but Anthem did exchange 3 units free of charge for him! Even if it's clearly writen in the user manual that it's not covered!

I really like Jerry. He's a passionate end-user just like me, and I really like reading his impressions on equipment he's trying over the years.

I just think some comments were not fair about Anthem, that's all.

It's the one of the few manufacturers (DVDO, Lumagen are 2 others that I know of) that I know of that when you ask them for a new features in the firmware, they usually gives it to you in the next iteration (if it's reasonable). Everything I'm asking them usually get through and is included in a new firmware! That's unbelievable!

They are listening to what end-users want and they give it to us in 1 or 2 weeks delay in a new firmware! Their pre/pros are always evolving products.

Nick is answering my e-mails in less then 3 hours usually. Try that with Denon or Yamaha or the vast majority of manufacturers out there. Good luck. You can also call directly over the phone at Anthem and talk with a product designer if you want to!

They are not hiding behind an answering machine. They take the phone and try to help you.

They usually exchange unit that were not bought from an authorized dealer, and are even fixing some units that are not even on the warranty because of that (and that was the case with Notanewbie's D2 on AVS), .

The Anthem AVM20 is still alive and kicking after 6-7 years. After countless firmweare upgrades and hardware upgrades. And will probably be get a new hardawre upgrade soon again after more then 6 years on the market.

And sometimes, a handful of really vocal non-satisfied customers will make people forget about the hundreds (and even thousands...) of non-vocal and really satisfied customers out there enjoying a fine product.

I'm one of those. And I'm vocal. :B

[mitch57]

While you may be right about the defective units my experience with Anthem has been less then stellar. I don't own any of their gear but had high hopes of owning one of their processors in the near future. However, since having several email conversations with Nick at Anthem I have had second thoughts. While he did answer my emails in a very prompt and timely manner he did so with an attitude.

Just because I'm an end user doesn't mean I'm a total idiot. But his email tone suggested that I was an idiot from the beginning. As an end user that's the last thing I need from a manufacturer that wants my business. From what I've heard that seems to be the way he treats most of his potential customers and current customers.

His emails to me confirmed this. Everytime I would ask a question he would counter it with a strong "That's Incorrect" and point out that many forum users don't know what they are talking about. His Holyer Then Thow attitude just chaps my hide! He exudes an "Im better then you" persona that just doesn't cut it in the customer service business.

Perhaps I will still consider Anthem but I will definitely be looking else where as a first choice. They may indeed have great products but if their customer service is anything like the way they treated me as a potential customer I will certainly have reservations.

[DrJRapp]

Mitch

Let's try to put principles and product before personalities. I think if you were to automatically dismiss the possibility of owning an AVM50 just because of Nick, you would be doing yourself a great disservice. I've said over and over what has kept me onboard during this whole ordeal is the sonics of the D2. The D1, which is the undelying "foundation" ,if you will, of the D2 is an Audiophile tour-de-force. I think it sounds better than anything I've ever heard in 2 ch and in 5.1 or 7.1 is a wow with it's channel steering and post processing. Understand that since 50% of my time with my system is listening to music I'm still very much an "audiopile" rather than a videophile, so I'm listening thru speakers that will reveal the best or the worst of a piece of gear and I have heard the ear candy that the D2 delivers even better than Levesque has ever imagined. If it wasn't that good, audio wise, i'd have changed brands long ago. As far as the HDMI issues go, Nick assures me that software is under development that addresses those problems even better than the current version, so there is not only hope, but a strong light at the end of the tunnel.

I haven't listened to the AVM 50 but I understand that it is 90-95% of what the D2 is at 75% of the price. My salesman (who can have whatever he chooses) owns an AVM50 himself.

Now, lest I sound like an Anthem Fanboy, let me reiterate that I still have issues with their service, because all I have so far is... talk and a RMA number. The next week or so will tell if that attitude changes or not.

[mitch57]

My only concern is how I would be treated if I had to call Anthem for support. Will I be rediculed and talked down to like I'm a lowly dog? It's my hope that I wouldn't need to ever call Anthem but If the need does arise I would expect to be treated as a valued customer and not as a slug.

I will be in contact with my authorized dealers in the next week or so to hear their take on Anthem service and support. I'm sure they won't have anything negative to say but I'm going to ask the questions anyway.

[DrJRapp]

Be sure you talk with the service departments and not the sales staff. That's the only way you will possibly find out the truth.

The service departments of the three dealers I know all have said the same thing. Anthem equipment has had a very low failure rate. Nothing has been said about dealing with Anthem. Choose your dealer carefully.

[DrJRapp]

The Anthem AVM20 is still alive and kicking after 6-7 years. After countless firmweare upgrades and hardware upgrades. And will probably be get a new hardawre upgrade soon again after more then 6 years on the market.

This is one of the things that drew me towards Anthem in the first place. I only started with separates again a couple of years ago after spending far too many years with receivers. My entry into separates was with a Rotel RSP 1066 processor and RMB 1075 amp. I had read their wonderful promises of "future proofing" on their website and heard that same story line from my dealer. Unfortunatly it turned out to be BS. Less than six months after I purchased the pair Rotel discontinued the 1066 in favor of the 1068 and immediatly orphaned the 1066 by stopping fw upgrades. Future proof ...yeah for 6 months....I was furious...some of you who were patrons of Club Rotel may remember that. I'm sure that some of my skepticism of manufacturer's claims originated right there.

[mitch57]

That's another reason why I'm skeptical to move from a receiver as a pre/pro versus a seperate processor. Today's higher end receivers seem to be knocking at the processor markets back door when you start comapring features and specifications. The upper end of Denon's line of receivers (4306, 4806, 5805) come into mind.

The advantages of a receiver are at least two fold. One you get to use it as a processor and two you can use it's built in amplification to drive two or more additional zones. Plus I've been reading that the sonic differences between dedicated processors and receivers are narrowing each and every year.

A final advantage to the receiver over the processor is the fact that when your amp has a problem, as mine did, I wasn't left in the cold without amplification to drive my system. My receiver picked up the task for the two month period while I waited for my amp go through the dealer/manufacturer shuffle. Without my receiver I would have been "Dead in the Water". Off topic, but I've been "Dead in the Water" in real life while in the Navy. Drifted 350 miles off course with no power, water, or ventilation for almost a week with a crew of 1250 sailors. Anyway, back on topic I don't want to be in that boat again.

Granted a good dealer would set me up with a loaner during the repair process but my future processor would be purchased through a different dealer then my amp. Then again the same problem could happen with my processor. Once again, choose your dealer carefully.

Opinons please.

[DrJRapp]

While that's kind of opposite of the move that most people make, it's hard to fault your logic, except.....I've never heard of Denon upgrading their receivers. I'm not talking about fw "fixes" now, I'm taliking about things like adding features or upgrading modes.

It's been 3 years since I moved from my Denon 3801 into separates in that 3 years Denon has had 5 "upgrades" each requiring the purchase of a whole new receiver.

[mitch57]

Here's another question for those in the know. On Anthem's website they have a comparrison chart that lists all the features of the AVM 30/40/50 and D2. Under DTS 96/24 it says "No" on the AVM 30/40/50 and "Yes" on the D2.

I can't believe that the D2 is the only processor that can process a DTS 96/24 signal! Even a low end receiver can handle that. Is this a mis print or what? It's an issue for me since I have numerous DVD Audio and DTS disks that have a DTS 96/24 track on them.

Anyone know what's up with that?

[DrJRapp]

It's got to due with how the processing power is allocated. As was previously mentioned, the AVM50 has one audio processor vs twins for the D2. Obviously when allocating processing power in the single processor chip units, something had to give somewhere. Anthem probably made the decision based on the fact that at the time of it's original design (as the AVM30) and even still, DTS 96/24 isn't as "mainstream" as some other feature they needed the HP for.

Hint: Even though there is a big difference between the AVM50 and D2 in MSRP, you may be able to get a dealer to discount a D2 more since there are more total $$ there to play with.....so....the D2 may not be that big a difference in price from the AVM50. For me it was a no brainer.

[mitch57]

I have two dealers in my area to choose from. I've dealt with both of them before and know that I'll be lucky to get even a 10% discount. MSRP on the D2 is $6700.00 and the AVM 50 is $4700.00. Based on these facts the two will not be anywhere close in price even with discounts.

Now if I had a dealer in my area like yours then the story might be different.

[mitch57]

It's got to due with how the processing power is allocated. As was previously mentioned, the AVM50 has one audio processor vs twins for the D2. Obviously when allocating processing power in the single processor chip units, something had to give somewhere. Anthem probably made the decision based on the fact that at the time of it's original design (as the AVM30) and even still, DTS 96/24 isn't as "mainstream" as some other feature they needed the HP for.

Hint: Even though there is a big difference between the AVM50 and D2 in MSRP, you may be able to get a dealer to discount a D2 more since there are more total $$ there to play with.....so....the D2 may not be that big a difference in price from the AVM50. For me it was a no brainer.

I talked to one of my delaers yesterday and they found out form Anthem that the AVM 50 WILL process DTS 96/24. It just won't do it when the other processing modes are applied at the same time. Such as THX, Cinema, etc.

[DrJRapp]

I talked to one of my delaers yesterday and they found out form Anthem that the AVM 50 WILL process DTS 96/24. It just won't do it when the other processing modes are applied at the same time. Such as THX, Cinema, etc.

Interesting. Like I said, a processing power issue and somthing needs to give somewhere.

Still waiting for my 3d D2 to arrive.

[mitch57]

Maybe they're wating for you to forget all about it so they wont have to send you one. What seems to be the hold up anyway?

[DrJRapp]

The new D2 arrived yesterday 10/11. This weekend hopefully I'll get the time to change it out. It's about a half days work to disconnect, reconnect reconfigure etc.

Let's hope that 3d time's the charm.

[mitch57]

I'm right there with ya Jerry! I sincerely hope that everything is perfect this time. Let us know how it goes.

[nkb]

Monsieur Levesque, pardonnez-moi !

I just happened to stumble across your post that referred to the guy with 5 failed D2 units, the failure of which were caused by the fellow himself:

To wit:

"Just like the guy that got "5" D2s. He broke 3 himself, and installed a 4th one on a thick carpet... So does this makes all the D2s he got bad unit? There was only one bad unit"


I normally wouldn't take the bait but this is incroyable. I am the guy with the 5 D2's.

Where did you get that I installed the D2 on "thick carpet"? I don't even have ANY carpet in my home. I have limestone floors throughout with nary a rug. Moreover the breaking of 3 D2's due to faulty HDMI cable, there may some issue there as I averred that I later discovered a faulty cable. My cables all started out new and I replaced them after I discovered a problem. But, at least I presented myself honestly.

But how come all my other HDMI equipment in my system have had NO problems even after multiple insertions? Just the D2.

I oft thought that people were offbase and unfair in attacking you for your effusive comments about the D2. There is nothing wrong in being passionate about something that you believe in. However, your diatribe and completely concocted "facts" draw in to question your credibility.

C'est dommage, M. Levesque. I am as disappointed in you as I was in the D2.

[DrJRapp]

I don't want to jinx it...but I think I finally have a D2 that works.....at least it works with older firmware.

[mitch57]

Glad to hear it's working. When are you going to update the firmware? I suspect your a bit hesitent for fear it might break it. Keep us posted.

[DrJRapp]

Actually it came with the latest firmware, that had a conflict with my pj so I rolled it back to a beta version that showed some promise with the 1st and second unit. To paraphrase Nick, sometimes fixing something in an update will break something else.

[RebelMan]

To paraphrase Nick, sometimes fixing something in an update will break something else.

If the firmware/software developers for the D2 were anything like Classe's engineers they would exercise diligence before publishing new releases. Classe's CDP-202 has a minor bug in it that has been fixed in a (hopefully) soon to be released update. Its delay is do to their comprehensive testing methodologies. While it is inconvenient not to have the fix, ensuring that the cure isn't worse than the disease is commendable.

[mitch57]

This is a common issue with computer technology. A processor is, after all, basically a computer. In the computer industry we pretty much hold to the rule that if you aren't having problems with the current firmware or don't need the latest enhancements don't try to fix what isn't broken.

I have to agree with what Nick says in this case. However, extensive testing should be the norm BEFORE it's released to a select group of Beta testers. Only after Beta testing is complete should it be released to the general public.

But it seems to be more and more common for manufactures to let their customers do the beta testing for them. It's a bad business model in my opinion but what do I know...

[DrJRapp]

If one considers the fact that one of the purposes of beta testing is to determine compatibility with peripheral devices in various combinations, then it is somewhat understandable that a manufacturer may rely on the public to do it's testing. After all, how many D2s are really out there by comparison with PCs. Microsoft may have 20 to 40 thousand beta testers (per my son who is one) out there whereas Anthem may only have a total of a couple of thousand D2s in the field.

Anthem isn't likely as sophisticated a software developer as MS either. Their beta testers, are not as knowledgable either..ie: Levesque is a pharmacist and my son has a Masters in Software Engineering. (sorry Al, just the facts) So we the consumer of an Anthem D2 deal with issues of both lack of quality and quantity in the software development and testing process .

I also don't necessarily agree that a ponderously thorough testing program is the only way to go. In the processor world that helps assure, but does not guarantee, that a customer of that product gets is a good one, but it additionally almost guarantees that the technology in that "good one" is nearly obsolete by the time it reaches the market.

[mitch57]

True. But I was refering more to "motherboard firmware" such as BIOS updates which is similar to a processor's firmware updates. Even large manufactures like Intel can't beta test for every possible situation out there. But they at least need to make sure that it works with most of the other common hardware manufacture's products on the market at the time.

HDMI is an issue with many products on the market. I think part of the problem is that there really isn't any real industry rules that force manufactures to adhere to certain specifications and standards. It seems to be more of a loose guide line instead of a mandate.

[x166532x]

I sell the Anthem line of products in my store and plan to own a D2 myself soon. I just wanted to say that I am absolutely impressed by the quality of product, support and most important sound that I have experienced so far. I would like to see more people discussing the quality of sound and picture that Anthem has brought to market at an extremely competitive price, rather than read about the tremendous blunders that the world of HDMI has brought to our AV world.
Just wanted to voice my opinion, fantastic job Anthem - Keep up the good work!!!

[DrJRapp]

Well Anthem seems to have gotten it right with v 1.10 fw. HDMI is nearly bullit proof (with my equipment at least) and the PQ is absolutely amazing with HiDef source material. Everyone wants to come to my house to watch!

[raider]

My anthem P5 (Channels shutting off)

Has any one here ever had this problem with the anthem P5,
When i power up the unit all channels work for a few minutes then 3 of my channels shut down (left front and rear and center). :M
Then after a few minutes those channels turn on.
This cycle continues as long as the amp is powered up.
I made sure the power is there and up to the correct voltage.
I swapped my preamp(1098) output around to make sure it wasn't the problem.
I even powered it up without the preamp on , same condition

Any input from anyone would be most appreciated!!!

Thanxs!!

DJ

[DrJRapp]

Are you powering the P5 with BOTH power cords connected?

[raider]

Both power cords are plugged in and the wall voltage is up to specs.

[whoaru99]

Have you tried it with all speaker wires disconnected?

[raider]

Tried that as well but unfortunately the same results.
I contacted my dealer with the problem and they contacted Anthem.
Apparently there is a relay assembly responsible for the shutting down of those channels and is a plug and play component.
My dealer is going to order the part (cover under warranty) and install it at my home :T .

Thats pretty good service IMHO :B


I will keep everyone posted on how this all shakes out.


Thanxs guys for your input

DJS

[mitch57]

Well Anthem seems to have gotten it right with v 1.10 fw. HDMI is nearly bullit proof (with my equipment at least) and the PQ is absolutely amazing with HiDef source material. Everyone wants to come to my house to watch!

How much of an improvement are you seeing with picture quality from cable or SAT SD signals? From what I've been reading standard DVDs unconverted with the D2 look fantastic! But I've also heard that SD Cable/SAT have minimal improvements.

What's your impressions Jerry?

[whoaru99]

How much of an improvement are you seeing with picture quality from cable or SAT SD signals? From what I've been reading standard DVDs unconverted with the D2 look fantastic! But I've also heard that SD Cable/SAT have minimal improvements.

What's your impressions Jerry?

Is this to mean that it will/should make a silk purse from a sow's ear?

I'm only asking because I have an AVM 20 that I may upgrade when/if the video upgrade becomes available.

[mitch57]

Is this to mean that it will/should make a silk purse from a sow's ear?

I'm only asking because I have an AVM 20 that I may upgrade when/if the video upgrade becomes available.

I have no idea. That's why I'm asking. I too am thinking of upgrading but would like to hear some personal experiences from those who have been using it for awhile.

[christopherf]

Hi,

Recently I was very taken with a rave review of the Anthem Statement P2 Stereo Amplifier written by Jason Thorpe on Soundstage. The amp only costs $2,500. Later in comparing it to another amplifier (admittedly twice the price) he wrote: "I was keenly aware that the Anthem amp contributed a slight glare in the upper midrange, resulting in a hint of shoutiness in this critical frequency range. Image depth was slightly compressed, presenting a more two-dimensional soundstage." Later in the review he wrote: "the BC202’s midrange richness and grain-free treble unearthed some attendant coarseness in the Anthem that could otherwise pass unnoticed."

Has anyone in the Anthem Club here used the P5 which is essentially the same amp with additional channels and experienced this? The measurement of the Anthem Statement P2 Stereo Amplifier (March 2005) really do outperform the measurements of the Classe Audio Delta CA 2200 also done by Soundstage (December 2004) and not be a small margin. The Classe also costs twice as much but since I am considering the Classe CP500 preamplifier after reading the above it got me thinking that perhaps I should do Classe/Classe but although I am not into specsmanship per se the Anthem really does measure in significant areas much better than the Classe amp. Feel free to email me at frank.christopher@earthlink.net The speakers will be the Paradigm Reference Signature S8 v.2 which in the new iteration uses Beryllium for the tweeter same as the new Revel Studio. Thank you in advance to all that reply!

[Andrew M Ward]

Microsoft may have 20 to 40 thousand beta testers (per my son who is one) out there whereas Anthem may only have a total of a couple of thousand D2s in the field.

A Couple Thousand! :rofl:
If they sell one thousand in the next 18 months i'll eat my hat!

[DrJRapp]

A Couple Thousand! :rofl:
If they sell one thousand in the next 18 months i'll eat my hat!

Andrew

Make sure you get a good tasting hat. My current D2 was the 2199th one made, and they continue to be in short supply.

[DrJRapp]

How much of an improvement are you seeing with picture quality from cable or SAT SD signals? From what I've been reading standard DVDs unconverted with the D2 look fantastic! But I've also heard that SD Cable/SAT have minimal improvements.

What's your impressions Jerry?

Relatively speaking HD cable and Sat would show less improvements since they are already either 720p or 1080i whereas standard DVD is 480i.

I recently purchased a 1080p monitor so this puts me in a position to comment on the D2s full capabilities.... They are awesome, at times the pq is actually too good, revealing the lilitations/defects of the original production or filming in a way never before seen on the screen. An example is that before the "blue screen" earlier Hollywood film productions used hand painted murals to fill in for senic backgrounds, and the "fakeness" of those backgrounds can now be much more clearly perceived than before.

[raider]

Anthem P5 channels shutting down

An update on the current state of affairs of My P5.
My dealer came to my home with a replacement card which is the main power controller circuit board where the power from the source voltage is fed to a host array of relays and IC chips,this in turn powers the amp modules and i think is part of the ALM feature of the P5.
Apparently Anthem had a few of these card malfunctions in some P5's but not many.

End result: A new card was installed and my P5 is up and running :T
Kudos :T To Anthem for a quick resolution to my problem and also my dealer for taking care of this problem in an expeditious way ;x(

I can't express enough how important to me Dealer/Manufacture support is in the products they sell and can't sing enough accolades about my dealer and Anthem and the way this was handled!!! :T :T :T

Hope this replacement card will stand the test of time!!!

One very happy camper :P

DJS

[mitch57]

Relatively speaking HD cable and Sat would show less improvements since they are already either 720p or 1080i whereas standard DVD is 480i.

Actually I was referring more to Standard Definition cable and Sat not High Def cable and Sat. Have you noticed any improvements in Standard Definition signals or does the D2 actually make them look worse?

[DrJRapp]

Actually I was referring more to Standard Definition cable and Sat not High Def cable and Sat. Have you noticed any improvements in Standard Definition signals or does the D2 actually make them look worse?

Honestly, I don't really watch standard cable since I don't even have it in my home and haven't for 4 years. Since I have Dish network with 26 HiDef channels I don't really watch standard Sat either. There is something about a 4x3 immage that now seems very wrong to me, and doing a "stretch" does make it worse.

My household was an early adopter of the 16x9 format six years ago and we now have six 16x9 HiDef TVs or monitors (including my pj) and only one 4x3 old school CRT left (my daughters room). In some cases we are actually on our second generation 16x9 sets.

The D2 doesn't make anything look worse than it already is, it improves every signal that is sent through it. High definition, on the otherhand makes the viewing experience worse in many cases since defects in original production or source material are more distinctly identifiable. This is analogus to how a good audio sytem will bring out the defects of a poorly recorded highly compressed disc (either CD or Vinyl). Video noise or film graininess becomes more obvious than before because of it's improved focus and edginess.

Let me additionally clarify my Hollywood example from my earlier post. In the days of Hollywood before what is now known as blue screen technology, film makers used to have elaborate perspective backgrounds painted to give the look of things like city streets and battlegrounds and any vast scene that was filmed in a studio lot. These scenes would blend seamlessly with the foreground in the finished product creating the illusion of a grand battlefield or a very long street.

Now, HighDef universally improves the sharpness of everything making things that were previously percieved as being slightly out of focus to be in sharp focus. This is largely what is responsible for what people report as a "more 3d effect" from hidef.

The problem occurs when something like the aforementioned painted backdrop comes into sharper focus it becomes obvious that it is a painted backdrop. The net result is that something that filmakers try to achieve called "suspension of disblief" becomes negatively effected by the viewers ability to more clearly see reality.

So, the picture gets better but the experience gets worse.

[Boone38]

I have been reading up on the AVM 30 and MCA 50. How do these compare to the Rotels. I was looking at used items and they are getting hard to find for a reasonalbe price. Whould appreciate some input and insite.

Thanks

Dan

[DrJRapp]

Having owned a Rotel RSP 1066 and then an RSP 1098 and now a Anthem Statement D2 I can only comment on that level. SQ of the Anthem, especially in 2 channel mode is far superior. The overal styling of and front panel layout the Anthem's are a bit funky by comparison to the Rotel but nevertheless they are very easy to use. It's my opinion the Anthems are designed to be heard and not seen, ie: custom installed in a hidden enclosure.

[Boone38]

Thanks for the insight. I just sold the 1075/1068 and was looking for ease of use as well as an upgrade. I listen to 50/50 of music and movies. I would be running 804s upfront and B & W inwalls for the rears. I very much like the Rotels but have had issues with the quality control.

I like the looks and have read that the sound quality is awsome. What about the build quality and upgrades? Seems that there is allot of upgrades that can be performed. The MCA50 is about the same price as the 1095 with the same wattage. Any comments on its sound?

Thanks for you time.