The multi channel BM fix is in!

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  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    The multi channel BM fix is in!

    Here's a diagram of the two resistors that you need to "cut" to remove the bass redirect on the multichannel inputs. This fix only works for the 1066 NOT the 1055 model. I post this information for your benefit but legally neither I, Rotel or HTGuide in any way shape or form will be held accountable for your screw ups. If you don't feel confident to make this change then don't do it. Cutting these parts out will not affect any other part of the unit and so if something does go wrong and it's likely to be unrelated to this change.....your warranty should be fine. You must decide for yourself if you want to do this as the change is unsupported by Rotel and also by the Forum.....

    Consumers shouldn't be calling Rotel tech support because they will not want to discuss it.....much like Microsoft does not support Tweak UI for Windows...that said we're here to help where we can

    Click here for the diagram




  • stereo.frog
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2003
    • 15

    #2
    Andrew, Just to avoid any confusion, can you post what exactly what the results of this modification will be? Does it have any impact on anything other that the 5.1 analog inputs? What about any crossover points? Does anything in the menu system become ineffective? Also, can we order a 1055 with the fix in place? Thanks.

    Comment

    • vfrjim
      Member
      • Apr 2003
      • 36

      #3
      Mine is being done by Rotel tommorrow, hopefully they will let me watch

      How is it sounding Andrew after you did the mod?

      Jim

      Comment

      • Andrew Pratt
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 16507

        #4
        I haven't performed the mod yet and may not get to it for a couple of weeks given my new responsibilites at home. This fix removes the bass redirect on the multichannel inputs which means that they'll simply perform as pass thoughs from your DVD player. This doesn't affect the regular inputs nor any other BM issues...those were fixed with the latest firmware (see FAQ for details on that)




        Comment

        • sdecker
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2002
          • 122

          #5
          This is great news. Thanks Andrew. arty:

          I have a couple of questions about this fix.

          1. Can somebody who cant solder just cut out the resister? Actual pics of the 1066/1055 would be great.

          2. If the answer to #1 is yes, will Rotel still honor the warrenty?

          Hopefully someone post detailed pics of them doing the upgrade. :W

          Earle

          Comment

          • Rock Dog
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2003
            • 417

            #6
            I would think that cutting them out is a very viable solution. Why? Sometimes people who do not have a lot of time in, with the business end of a soldering iron, can apply too much heat and pull hole pad or it's trace connection right off the board. Plus, what's on th under side of that board? Is there another board? So if you heat the resistor and draw the lead through the hole. There's a very good chance that the solder on the otherside may drip and fall as you remove the resistor.

            Solder splash + surface mount components + high end audio gear = :#

            Just my 2 cents, but I think snipping the resistors out, are the way to go.




            -Thomas-

            The easiest way to find something lost around the house, is to buy a replacement.

            Hey You! Make sure you stop by the HTguide Off-Topic section. It's FUN!!!

            -Thomas-

            As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it.

            Hey You! Make sure you stop by the HTguide After Midnight section. It's FUN!!!

            Comment

            • Andrew Pratt
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 16507

              #7
              I was going to cut mine as well. I am not planning on removing them though just cutting one side of the lead and pulling it so theres no chance it will short. That way if I ever want to put it back to "spec" I could simply solder the connection back. If it was only one resistor I was thinking of putting a switch on the back but I'm not sure how that would work given that there's two of them...I guess I could have two switches...hmmm I'll have to give that some more thought.




              Comment

              • Rock Dog
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Jan 2003
                • 417

                #8
                Andrew, if you really want to do the switch. Use a DPDT. (Double Pole, Double Throw) one switch, 2 different and isolated circuits. Your idea of cutting one lead is even better. Then wrap a small piece of electrical tape around it, just in case.




                -Thomas-

                The easiest way to find something lost around the house, is to buy a replacement.

                Hey You! Make sure you stop by the HTguide Off-Topic section. It's FUN!!!

                -Thomas-

                As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it.

                Hey You! Make sure you stop by the HTguide After Midnight section. It's FUN!!!

                Comment

                • sdecker
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2002
                  • 122

                  #9
                  Thanks for the info guys. I mighjt try this fix later this week. I just need to confirm that the 1055 is "fixed" the same as the 1066

                  Comment

                  • stereo.frog
                    Junior Member
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 15

                    #10
                    Is Rotel planning on publishing a document on their web site about this? They should.
                    (Since their tech support did not know anything about this fix, I guess I might have my answer already.)

                    Comment

                    • Scott Ryan
                      Junior Member
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 3

                      #11
                      Will Rotel be implementing this 'fix' from the factory on any new units?? I am close to buying my 1066/1075 and figure they might as well ship it already done.

                      Comment

                      • Entice
                        Member
                        • Nov 2002
                        • 43

                        #12
                        This may seem a silly question, but what does cutting the 2 resistors actually do? Why was there Bass management in the first place? Will cutting them, or in essence, removing the bass management have the same effect on all speakers? on all settings?. Sounds like we need more clarification on this as it may possibly detriment some people's systems.

                        If you askme, it's all a bit too confusing. I guess what I'd really like to know is, is there ever a case where bass management could be seen to be advantageous?

                        Comment

                        • Andrew Pratt
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 16507

                          #13
                          Is Rotel planning on publishing a document on their web site about this? They should.
                          (Since their tech support did not know anything about this fix, I guess I might have my answer already.)
                          I don't know for sure but I doubt Rotel will do this on new models coming from the factory since they'd have to rewrite the manuals etc...plus honestly most people wouldn't ever notice :roll:

                          This fix only effects the redirection of bass in the multichannel inputs nothing else...If you have BM in your DVD-A or SACD player then the fix is something you should think about doing the fix. IF you don't have SACD or DVD-A or are only using the left and right inputs on the multichannel input don't worry about it just enjoy the music.




                          Comment

                          • vfrjim
                            Member
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 36

                            #14
                            I highly doubt that they will be publishing the fix. This AM when I went to Rotel to bring my 1066, I mentioned about the details being shown on this forum and they are aware that it was posted here and highly reccomend that you send your unit in for the modification to them and not do it yourself, updating software is one thing but doing hardware modifications is another and you could easily void your warranty if you made a mistake.

                            I have not hooked my modified 1066 up yet, but plan on doing it today.

                            Comment

                            • Danbry39
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 1584

                              #15
                              Vfrjim,

                              Where do you live? I'd like to carry my Rotel in to have the fix and perhaps the bandwidth upgraded. I'm just not sure where I can hand carry the thing to have the work done. It sure would beat waiting for it to go through the mail, worrying all the time about the care it was receiving from the shipping company.




                              Keith
                              Keith

                              Comment

                              • vfrjim
                                Member
                                • Apr 2003
                                • 36

                                #16
                                I live in Rhode Island, 80 miles from Rotel, it took a little over an hour to drive there today, I too hate shipping companies and since it was not that far, I decided to bring it myself. They were very hospitable at Rotel, Mike Sheehan (techsupport person there) met me at the door and was very professional and promptly brought my 1066 back to me while I waited, took approx 40 minutes.

                                Jim

                                Comment

                                • Sid
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Apr 2003
                                  • 2

                                  #17
                                  Could you tell me where Rotel is located, where you had the mod done. Iam from Pelham, NH.
                                  Thanks, sid

                                  Comment

                                  • Danbry39
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Sep 2002
                                    • 1584

                                    #18
                                    Thanks for the information. That's sweet that you could just take it there. I had hoped that it might be near San Francisco, as I know they have offices there, but alas. Anyway, thanks. :^x




                                    Keith
                                    Keith

                                    Comment

                                    • Andrew Pratt
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 16507

                                      #19
                                      I just heard that his fix DOES NOT apply to the Rotel 1055's only the 1066's :M




                                      Comment

                                      • Kevin D
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Oct 2002
                                        • 4601

                                        #20
                                        Hmm.. Crappy way to finally have a reason to recommend the 1066 over a 1055..

                                        Surely there's something similar that can be done..

                                        Kevin D.

                                        Comment

                                        • vfrjim
                                          Member
                                          • Apr 2003
                                          • 36

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Sid
                                          Could you tell me where Rotel is located, where you had the mod done. Iam from Pelham, NH.
                                          Thanks, sid
                                          Rotel is located at 54 Concord St in North Reading Mass
                                          Exit 39 off Rt 93 (bear right) about a 1/2 mile down on your right. The building is labeled as "Equity"

                                          Comment

                                          • Andrew Pratt
                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 16507

                                            #22
                                            Kevin I'm sure there is too we just haven't found out the location of the resistors on the 1055 model yet.




                                            Comment

                                            • RogueAngel
                                              Member
                                              • Jun 2002
                                              • 69

                                              #23
                                              Andrew,

                                              I think this fix should be added to the FAQ list along with the final answer on the 1055.

                                              TIA
                                              Bobbi

                                              Comment

                                              • RogueAngel
                                                Member
                                                • Jun 2002
                                                • 69

                                                #24
                                                Andrew,

                                                Have you heard when they will release a fix for the 1055. Also, what about the fix on the video switching to increase bandwidth. I haven't heard anything lately about updating the "older" 1055's and 1066's.

                                                Bobbi

                                                Comment

                                                • stereo.frog
                                                  Junior Member
                                                  • Jan 2003
                                                  • 15

                                                  #25
                                                  Do we know if Rotel has said the will be no BM fix for the 1055 ever or is it still forthcoming? Thanks.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Andrew Pratt
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                    • 16507

                                                    #26
                                                    I was told they're looking into it. From what I understand it should be possible its just a matter of finding the location of the resistors on the 1055. I'll fire of another email and see where they're at with it.




                                                    Comment

                                                    • Bill Blank
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                      • 126

                                                      #27
                                                      Andrew,

                                                      So if I use the BM options in the Denon DVD-2900 for it's analog multi-channel outputs, I should be fine as far as DVD-A/SACD bass is concerned and NOT be required to make the cut?

                                                      If that is the case, would I also have to set the Rotel 1066's settings all to "Large"?? What would the sub then be set to?

                                                      Thanks,
                                                      Bill




                                                      Rotel RSP-1066
                                                      Rotel RMB-1075
                                                      Rega Planet 2000
                                                      Denon DVD-2900
                                                      Mitsubishi WS-55411
                                                      Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v3
                                                      Paradigm Reference Studio CC-470 v3
                                                      Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3
                                                      Velodyne CT-120

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Scarp
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Mar 2003
                                                        • 632

                                                        #28
                                                        The only thing you can do is to make sure that no bass comes out of your Denon. So you would set subwoofer to off in the dvd player, which should make it put the LFE onto the fronts.
                                                        Then you need to turn of your subwoofer, because the errornous BM in the Rotel would put everything under 100/120 Hz onto the subwoofer output from the fronts/center/rears.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Andrew Pratt
                                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 16507

                                                          #29
                                                          Scarp's right which means I'd still go ahead with the BM fix. I have a Denon 1600 and it works well with the BM fix and the latest firmware.




                                                          Comment

                                                          • Bill Blank
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Sep 2002
                                                            • 126

                                                            #30
                                                            What if, and this could be considered CRAZY, I left all speakers set to "LARGE" on the Denon AND the Rotel, then just tweaked the sub level on the Rotel?

                                                            I think people need to look at bass-management as what it is, an added feature, not a necessity. I've never used/needed bass management for all these years in my 2-channel system, why the need for all of this obsessing with multi-channel music if my setup is capable?


                                                            Bill




                                                            Rotel RSP-1066
                                                            Rotel RMB-1075
                                                            Rega Planet 2000
                                                            Denon DVD-2900
                                                            Mitsubishi WS-55411
                                                            Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v3
                                                            Paradigm Reference Studio CC-470 v3
                                                            Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3
                                                            Velodyne CT-120

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Andrew Pratt
                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                              • 16507

                                                              #31
                                                              That will work to an extent. The problem is that what bass there is below 100 hz is going to be redirected towards your sub and your mains so you're going to end up with quite a bloated bottom end to try and tame. Given how easy the hardware fix is I'd just pop the cover off and snip the little resistors.




                                                              Comment

                                                              • Bill Blank
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Sep 2002
                                                                • 126

                                                                #32
                                                                The problem is that what bass there is below 100 hz is going to be redirected towards your sub and your mains so you're going to end up with quite a bloated bottom end to try and tame.
                                                                Is that a fault of the Rotel's multi-channel input or the Denon's multi-out? Is it a result of SUB=Yes being the same as SUB=Max on the Rotel?

                                                                Bill




                                                                Rotel RSP-1066
                                                                Rotel RMB-1075
                                                                Rega Planet 2000
                                                                Denon DVD-2900
                                                                Mitsubishi WS-55411
                                                                Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v3
                                                                Paradigm Reference Studio CC-470 v3
                                                                Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3
                                                                Velodyne CT-120

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Andrew Pratt
                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                                  • 16507

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Is that a fault of the Rotel's multi-channel input or the Denon's multi-out? Is it a result of SUB=Yes being the same as SUB=Max on the Rotel?
                                                                  The Rotel has/had two problems. the first was the sub setting where max = yes but with the latest firmwar that's been fixed so its no longer an issue. The only remaining problem is that on the multi channel inputs there's a hardware bass redirect that copies all bass below 100 hz from the main channels and sends it on to the subwoofer. So if you have small speakers it likely won't be much of an issue since the small speakers can't play that low anyway...if however you have larger front speakers you'll end up with bass in the main and from the sub hence the term bass doubleing. The only way to fix this is to snip the two resistors on the BM board which will stop the bass from being copied to the sub. The sub will still get bass if its present in the .1 track but it won't get any from the mains which is what's supposted to happen.




                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Bill Blank
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Sep 2002
                                                                    • 126

                                                                    #34
                                                                    So the manual is wrong and Rotel refuses to fix the problem. Rather they give us a solution that voids the warranty on the product they designed wrong in the first place. That's pretty lame.

                                                                    Basically, regardless of your settings on the Rotel, it applies the same setting (100Hz) to the multi-in that would occur if you switched the crossover to "OFF".

                                                                    So it's not the Denon or it's bass management that are the problem, rather the Rotel. That sucks.

                                                                    Bill




                                                                    Rotel RSP-1066
                                                                    Rotel RMB-1075
                                                                    Rega Planet 2000
                                                                    Denon DVD-2900
                                                                    Mitsubishi WS-55411
                                                                    Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v3
                                                                    Paradigm Reference Studio CC-470 v3
                                                                    Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3
                                                                    Velodyne CT-120

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Bill Blank
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                      • 126

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Vfrjim,

                                                                      Did you happen to pop open your unit to see exactly what they did? Did they simply cut them and tape them off or did they remove them? What did they charge?

                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                      Bill




                                                                      Rotel RSP-1066
                                                                      Rotel RMB-1075
                                                                      Rega Planet 2000
                                                                      Denon DVD-2900
                                                                      Mitsubishi WS-55411
                                                                      Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v3
                                                                      Paradigm Reference Studio CC-470 v3
                                                                      Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3
                                                                      Velodyne CT-120

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Andrew Pratt
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                        • 16507

                                                                        #36
                                                                        So the manual is wrong and Rotel refuses to fix the problem. Rather they give us a solution that voids the warranty on the product they designed wrong in the first place. That's pretty lame.
                                                                        Bill the manual is correct...or it is when the firmware's updated. The warrenty is not voided by the BM fix at all even if you do it yourself so long as you don't totally botch it up which considering how easy it is that shouldn't be a problem.




                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Bill Blank
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                          • 126

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Andrew,

                                                                          First let me thank you for your quick responses and patience with this matter. However, the manual is misleading because it does not state that when using the MULTI-INPUT that all channels will be cut at 100Hz regardless of speaker settings. It DOES however state the following:

                                                                          "A system with five LARGE speakers and a subwoofer: This system requires no bass redirection. All five speakers play the normal bass recorded in their respective channels. The subwoofer plays onlythe LFE channel bass. This may not be te most effecient use of system resources. Depending on the soundtrack, there may be minimal usa of the LFE channel, so the subwoofer would be underutilized. Meanwhile the normal bass places higher demands onthe capabilities of the other speakers and the amplifiers driving them."

                                                                          This setup as described by Rotel is my system. All 5 speakers can be run as "LARGE" and I have a subwoofer.

                                                                          Then here's the hitch:

                                                                          "In other surround modes, there is no LFE channel and the subwoofer will only reproduce redirected bass from the other channels, which is not as likely to tax the subwoofer."

                                                                          The question is, are they referring to DPLII, DTS Neo6, and DSP modes featured in the 1066 or do they include SACD and DVD-A in that as well? If you were to ask Rotel, I'm sure they'd say "other" includes SACD and DVD-A. But then there's another questionable part of their statement, will it only reproduce redirected bass from the other channels based on YOUR crossover selection? Apparently not. Rotel took it upon themselves to choose a high-ish crossover point of 100Hz.

                                                                          Rotel should have been clearer and up front about what they took upon themselves and what they thought we users could handle. The only mention of a 100Hz crossover point is this:

                                                                          "The OFF setting sends a full-range signal to your subwoofer so that you can use its built-in low-pass filter. With the OFF setting, a 100Hz high-pass filter is activated for all SMALL speakers in the system." So even that statement implies that if I selected OFF for the subwoofer's crossover only speakers set to SMALL would be affected.

                                                                          I feel let down by Rotel. Do they offer a fix under warranty from the factory and could they give me a software update while they were at it?

                                                                          How's this for kicks: The Denon's 2900 "downfall" is that when using it's analog multi-out there's a significant LACK of bass. Any chance the Denon's lack and Rotel's doubling of bass would/could cancel each other out somewhat? With final tweaking done on the sub level for the multi-input? That 100Hz crossover point still seems like the killer to me.

                                                                          Whatta ya think?

                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                          Bill




                                                                          Rotel RSP-1066
                                                                          Rotel RMB-1075
                                                                          Rega Planet 2000
                                                                          Denon DVD-2900
                                                                          Mitsubishi WS-55411
                                                                          Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v3
                                                                          Paradigm Reference Studio CC-470 v3
                                                                          Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3
                                                                          Velodyne CT-120

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Scarp
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Mar 2003
                                                                            • 632

                                                                            #38
                                                                            I emailed the distributor in Holland for asking about the hardware fix and they strongly recommend NOT doing that fix since it voids your warranty. He said that Rotel was still working on fixing it through some other way. So for me its either do it myself and risk my warranty or live with the bassmanagement problems.
                                                                            I'm thinking more and more for saving up 1500 euro and sell my 1066 by the time the 1098 comes out, although I'll wait a few months bcoz there might be problems with that one too.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Andrew Pratt
                                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                                              • 16507

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Scarp the VP of the company told me otherwise so I'd go ahead with the fix if you want.




                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Bill Blank
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Sep 2002
                                                                                • 126

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Rotel U.S. offers to do the fix at their service facility. I'll be sending my 1066 in because I don't trust my clutzy self and they'll be able to update my firware while they've got it. Turnaround time's only about a week so I suppose I can live with my 2-ch living room system until then!!

                                                                                Bill




                                                                                Rotel RSP-1066
                                                                                Rotel RMB-1075
                                                                                Rega Planet 2000
                                                                                Denon DVD-2900
                                                                                Mitsubishi WS-55411
                                                                                Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v3
                                                                                Paradigm Reference Studio CC-470 v3
                                                                                Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v3
                                                                                Velodyne CT-120

                                                                                Comment

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