RA-1062 used with RB-1080?

[dnn8350]

I have an RA-1062 which I use mainly for 2-channel music playback. I find it very musical, but feel the need for more power to provide greater ease with some material (e.g. concert grand piano at 'realistic' levels). The dealer has recommended driving an RB-1080 with the RA-1062 pre-outs. Any experience with this configuration out there?

Also, as an option, the dealer has suggested bi-amping the speakers using the RA-1062 speaker outputs (treble) and the RB-1080 via the pre-outs (bass). Apparently this will be OK gain-wise because the pre-out level is matched to the 1062's internal pre-main level. Any thoughts or experience of this setup?

Other equipment:

Marantz DV-8400 CD/SACD/DVD-A
Harbeth Super HL5 speakers (bi-wireable)
Van Den Hul First Ultimate interconnects
QED X-400 speaker cable
Olson mains power filter
Wireworld Stratus and Merlin Black Widow power cables

[Andrew Pratt]

The 1080 would be a fine addition to drive those speakers...I'm not sure how much you'll gain with bi-amping them but it doesn't cost you anything to try.

[dnn8350]

Interconnects?

Thanks for the feedback Andrew. I will need about 3 metres of interconnect between the two amps. Any views on type (RCA or XLR) and make/model of cable? Also, does the RB-1080 have a detachable power cord, and does it benefit from a replacement? I am using a Wireworld Stratus with the RA-1062, with excellent effect.

[aud19]

Check out the link below for Cat Cables. Great products, great prices, great service and they're a forum sponsor to boot :T

IMO, XLR offers little to no advantage in 99% of setups. Save your money or apply it to even better quality RCA's.

Power cables will just start an argument :lol: Worst case scenario, they can't hurt. Best case, they improve the sound quality. You'll get a different opinion from everyone so... You have to decide wether you're willing to pay the $$ to find out I believe Cat also makes power cables.

Jason

[dnn8350]

RA-1062 and RB-1080

Thanks guys. I'll let you know how things go.

[dnn8350]

RA-1062 with RB-1080 - update

The RB-1080 has now been installed and permanently powered-up with the RA-1062 for a week, connected by a pair of spare IXOS Gamma XHA806 RCA interconnects. The results, after barely sufficient time to burn-in, are already good to excellent. The extra headroom and authority in the lower octaves are very apparent, and my piano CDs especially have taken on a new lease of life. There seems to be little need to spend any more time or money on bi-wiring or bi-amping, and in any case Harbeth's speaker designer, whom I consulted, advised against it.

One unexpected result is that a few previously almost un-listenable-to disks have been rehabilitated, and I'm speaking musically, not technically. In one case, the controversial Cziffra recording of the Chopin studies, I can hear for the first time the dynamic and tonal balance that the artist was trying to achieve, and this has totally transformed my appreciation of the performance. Clearly this goes beyond 'technical tweaking' to the heart of musical enjoyment. On another plane entirely, the 'Best of Stevie Wonder' has fresh slam and bite it didn't have before - and no amp clipping (the Harbeths' sensitivity is a so-so 85db).

Thanks for the tips, guys, and chalk up another satisfied Rotel customer.

[Azeke]

Congratulations, and welcome to the world of 2 channel amps :T

Regards,

Arman

[aud19]

:B

Jason

[pbarata]

Hi dnn8350,

I've Rotel RSP-1066 together with Rotel RMB-1075 all connect to mains through Olson mains power filter. I've two questions for you:

Q1. Did you notice any improvement in replacing the original power cords with Merlin Black Widow power cables (using at the same time with Olson's)?

Q2. Are you using bi-wiring with QED XT400 ?

I'm evaluating the replacement of Rotel original power cords with Supra LoRad and QED Original Bi-wire MK2 with QED XT350 (can’t find any option for new QED XT series for bi-cabling).

Thx

Pedro

[Andrew Pratt]

I had those same IC's before I upgraded to the SilverCats from CatCables...at the time I didn't really believe I'd hear any difference but several of us had no problem at all blinding picking the silver cables so it made a believer out of me. I haven't tried the power cable upgrade yet but I intend to make my own and see.

[walt h]

RA-1062 question

I am considering purchase of RA-1062 and am a little surprised to see your comment that it can't effectively drive your 86db speakers. The speakers I have are 87db....not too much more efficient so am now thinking that maybe I need RA-1070 instead. Some available reviews of RA-1062 haven't mentioned any shortage of horsepower-even with 4 ohm speakers. I usually listen at low to moderate level-so perhaps this won't be a problem for me. My listening room is average at 14' X 18'. Can you comment on how hig a level you typically listen? THANKS.

[dnn8350]

mains power cords and bi-wiring

I did notice a difference both with the Merlin and with the Olson. The improvements were in the noise floor and bass control. I can't translate this fully into technical reasons, but local mains conditions may well be relevant (e.g. if there is significant local mains RF interference, this will be reduced/eliminated). This is definitely something you need to try yourself in your particular situation.

As to bi-wiring, I haven't done this, because the designer of my Harbeth Super HL5 speakers (Alan Shaw) specifically advised me against either biwiring or bi-amping his designs (Harbeth also make professional studio monitoring and active speakers). When I asked him why he fitted biwiring terminals, his reply, somewhat resignedly, was 'marketing reasons'. His speakers certainly sound exceptionally integrated and transparent when single wired. I have encountered other contrarian opinions on bi-wiring from noted hifi gurus, notably Ingvar Öhman from Sonic Design in Sweden (correction from email response to Pedro), whose analysis is that the 'biwired sound' is actually due to the introduction of phase inaccuracies, and is a form of acoustic 'pollution'!

But go with your own ears!

[dnn8350]

RA-1062 power

I was also surprised at my experience of the RA-1062, given the reviews. I should say that I usually found the RA-1062 on its own subjectively plenty powerful, in the absence of direct A/B comparisons, on most material, especially classical choral/orchestral. This would be at volume settings between 9-10 o'clock. There were some tracks, however, especially solo concert grand piano (a very demanding signal), when the sound became a little strained at 10 o'clock or a little above (the setting required for fairly 'realistic' levels in my medium-sized room - but still well below actual levels for a live instrument).

The subjective effect, paradoxically, is to make the instrument sound 'too loud', or somewhat strident, owing to increased distortion on transients. There was also repertoire (e.g. some tracks on 'The Best of Stevie Wonder') where at points bass-heavy instruments like electric bass actually started audibly clipping at 10-11 o'clock, the volume setting needed to generate dynamic, but definitely 'sub-loud-party', levels in my room.

Direct A/B comparison with a loaned RB-1080, quickly achieved by switching speaker cable banana plugs while keeping the same volume setting from the RA-1062 pre-outs, not only eliminated the strain and subjective stridency from piano, but added great weight and authority to the lower octave of the instrument (presumably owing to the ease of current delivery and very high damping factor). This was so immediately obvious and dramatic that it clinched the decision for me within 10 seconds of A/B comparison of a single piano track! The Steve Wonder tracks also now have terrific kick and slam, without any hint of clipping. Again, the subjective effect is that it doesn't sound 'too loud' any more. These subjective benefits extend more widely to other material, varying in significance with the programme content.

Obviously, if most of your listening is done at quieter levels, or you choice of material is less demanding in these respects, the above becomes less relevant, and none of this in any case detracts from the excellence of the RA-1062's power amp (which I still use to drive a pair of Rogers LS3/5As) within its own limits. But the moral of the above is that, all else equal, you just can't have 'too much power'.

[dnn8350]

Andrew, which ICs are you referring to? If you mean IXOS, they are specified as being silver plated oxygen-free copper conductors. I may experiment with alternatives for my pre to power connections (if I can get some loans), but currently the combination of the 'smooth' Van den Hul disk to pre, with the 'bright, dynamic, silver' IXOS seems subjectively well balanced in the current set up.

[pbarata]

Mains power cords and bi-wiring

David, thanks for you valuable information on bi-wiring. I confess that I was not that happy about bi-wiring my front channels, which are floor stands from Monitor Audio model Silver 8i. The bass was so boomy and reverberant that I tried to make it a little smoother using sponges in one of the rear ports. The flux of air in these rear ports was excessively intense when playing strong bass content music that I got very suspicious about it. Fortunately I replaced QED Original bi-wire MKII for the QED XT-350 and now it sounds much more controlled and natural. Bass is now more firm (however I’m missing some the strong bass that I’d before and the feeling of more airy reproduction of music, probably to the generation of phase errors using bi-wiring), middle and upper frequencies sound much more detailed and integrated.

As for the power cords, I’ve already a very noticeable improvement with Olson’s, nevertheless I’ll replaced the original Rotel power cords to get, I expect, less mains noise, as all my Rotel power cords run together with TV, DVD player, etc.


Pedro

[dnn8350]

mains cords and biwiring - and some musical thoughts

Hi Pedro

Interesting that you found similar effects to the Sonic Designs guy - just goes to show that 'different' isn't always 'better' - but in the end, it's all about personal experience and enjoyment. Well, now that I seem to have more or less completed my '20 year upgrade', I'll have to concentrate on increasing the value of my music collection above that of my system (apparently the way you can tell a 'music lover' from an 'audiophile'!). At the moment I think the system has just nosed in front!