RMB1066+RB1070 vs. RMB1075+RB10180

[amix]

I am a little confused about the RMB-1066. Judging by its name it should be the intended match to the RSP-1066. However, no single post I have found mentioning the RMB-1066. All owners of the RSP-1066 seem to use a RMB-1075.

Even Rotel lists its power-amplifier in the cateogry of "Distribution Amplifiers" and not in the cateogry of "Multichannel Amplifiers". It seems, as the RMB-1066 would be sold for hypermarkets and restaurants to fire their multiple speakers.

Could it be ?

I feel stongly, that the 1075 is to big for me, who plans on using BW CM2/CM C speakers or Dynaudio Audience 52 for his multichannel set. I might add another 2ch amp later. But also here I feel the RB-1080 might be overkill. Maybe just the RB-1070 ?

I plan to use the RSP-1068 as preamp.

So my other question would be, what do you folks think would be good for me, regarding my speakers and regarding, that I am more of an music enhtusiast than a movie enthusiast.

And what about the RMB-1066 ?

[chrispy35]

I have an RMB-1066 and it's quite good. Right now I'm running the following speakers off it in quite a large room (~20'x20'):
Mains - 2 x BW DM 630
Centres - 2 x BW LCR6 S2
Surrounds - 2 x PSB Alphas

The centres and surrounds are quite small but the 630's are an average size for a full-size speaker. The amp seems to have plenty of room to breathe; even at neighbour-annoying levels. If, down the road, you feel that the RMB-1066 is not enough, you can always pick up a second amp and use the 1066 in a 3-channel bridge or biwire configuration.

[aud19]

IMO, the RMB-1066 would be "adequate-good" the RMB-1075 is "good" the RMB-1095 is probably more appropriate for hard to drive, large speakers.

Personally I would and did go for the 1075 as I'd rather have enough power and not be constantly wondering or listening for defficiencies in the amplification. You can have too little power but you can rarely have too much Besides B&W's are notoriously hard to drive, though their lower than Nautilus models aren't as bad in that respect.

If you get the 1080 for your mains and 1066 for your surrounds right from the start, that should be more than adequate. You could even use the extra channels in the 1066 to bi-amp your centre etc.

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

As you've found out the RMB1066 is intended to be used in multizone installs where you need a lot of lower wattage channels. That's not to say it wouldn't do ok in a smaller theater but really for that purpose its worth spending the little extra and get the 1075 which will have power to spare and will grow with you for years to come. I'd think that if you got the 1066 now you'd likely outgrow it sooner or later and trust me its easier on the wallet to get what you want now then later.

[ht_addict]

I am a little confused about the RMB-1066. Judging by its name it should be the intended match to the RSP-1066. However, no single post I have found mentioning the RMB-1066. All owners of the RSP-1066 seem to use a RMB-1075.

Even Rotel lists its power-amplifier in the cateogry of "Distribution Amplifiers" and not in the cateogry of "Multichannel Amplifiers". It seems, as the RMB-1066 would be sold for hypermarkets and restaurants to fire their multiple speakers.

Could it be ?

I feel stongly, that the 1075 is to big for me, who plans on using BW CM2/CM C speakers or Dynaudio Audience 52 for his multichannel set. I might add another 2ch amp later. But also here I feel the RB-1080 might be overkill. Maybe just the RB-1070 ?

I plan to use the RSP-1068 as preamp.

So my other question would be, what do you folks think would be good for me, regarding my speakers and regarding, that I am more of an music enhtusiast than a movie enthusiast.

And what about the RMB-1066 ?

No amp is too big for a setup. Its always better to have more power than not enough. Now you say that your main area of listening is music, so this would indicate a need for a high powered amp. Look into the 1090/80/70. Only problem is these amps are all 2ch which makes having a uniforum front/center/right soundstage tough to do unless you get 3 of the mentioned amps. If your music is mostly 2ch I would go with aud19 suggestion. Now if you were into movies then the RMB-1066 would be an excellent choice. What ever you do you won't be disappointed.

ht_addict

[amix]

Okay, I need to specify my needs a little more accurate I think.

My HT won't grow in the future. The apartment I live in is my own and it's paid. No need to change that This means, however, the my living-room (this will hold the system) is rather small, allowing for a certain type of speakers, such as the named ones.

The only thing I might grow within the next 5 years would be the prepro.

My habits is also to investigate for a long time (can be a years) and then have some peace for a time. I do not change my stuff that fast. My last HiFi is 12 years old now. Also, my financial possibilities are limited and getting the named setup is already high for me.

So: I will buy the named speakers (on of the both sets), and perhaps a RSP1068 with matching PA.

I am mostly interested in musicality of the PAs. And this would be my primary question: Are the RMB-1066 musical enough or is the RMB-1075 much more musical ? I mean, maybe the speakers, I mentioned won't show the difference between the choices ?

I am aware, that this can best be heard at the dealer, but I would like to have a little of an imagination before I do the next step.

Thanks, guys ! :T

[Aussie Geoff]

Information on Amplifiers and SOund Quality

Amix,

B&W Speakers are well known for having complex impedance curves and loving high current amps. Have a read of this thread and the links from it to see THREAD and you should understand more.

I agree with Aud19 - even in a small room you will notice the extra clarity and control from the RMB-1075 over the RMB-1066. Ideally your suggestion of an RB-1080 and a RMB-1075 would be perfect.... The B&Ws in the CM range and up just love current and open up remarkably in sound quality. The Dynaudio’s are similar in this regard…

In my opinion, the RMB-1066 while good for second zones etc just isn't likely to meet your musicality needs, especially for your main speakers. You may think "I don't play loud" - but let’s consider. Say you are playing at an average volume of 1W (89db at 1 meter with your speakers and more like 87db in the room). A musical peak hits of 20 db (four times as loud) which is common for small fractions of a second - suddenly you need 100W.

Equally, if you calibrate your HT to reference level (105db for home theatre), then to achieve this with your 89db speakers for 1W you need 70W a channel into 8 ohms and 140w into 4 ohms - with more for peaks!) 10 times the power = 10 db = Double the perceived loudness (the ear works on a logarithmic scale). The extra power has the effect of opening up the sound and removing "congestion". So if your amps are to be 10 year investments - then the choice is clear....

Geoff

[aud19]

I agree with Geoff, Ideally the 1075 and 1080. At the very least you'll need the 1080 and 1066 but definately not the 1066 alone. The 1066 and 1080 might be a good compromise for you and as I mentioned you could use the extra channels to bi-amp your centre and still have enough channels for 7.1 or to bi-amp the rears in a 5.1 setup as well.

Jason

[amix]

Okay, thanks a lot guys, and thanks to Geoff for clarifying the background. u've got the talent to explain these technical things very consumable. Maybe you should write a book :W

Reading the pointed thread also...

I will send anothger person to this thread, whom I met in a German HiFi-Forum, since he's got the same things to decide as me

It is interesting to hear, that even the value lines of B&W and Dynaudio need strong amps.

[Andrew Pratt]

It is interesting to hear, that even the value lines of B&W and Dynaudio need strong amps.

All well built speakers will sound much better with quality amplification. The stronger amps will have much better control over your speakers so that the subtle nuances can shine though even at very moderate volumes. They are also a solid corner stone of your system and will be with you a long time even as you change other gear around them. I've got a 5 channel amp that's over 10 years old that's still doing its job nicely powering my second zone and rear surrounds etc and I fully expect to keep it another 10 as well. Point being that while you may trade the receiver every "X" years to keep pace with the new formats the trusty amp you buy today will very likely remain in your system so try not to skimp or settle for less then you really need both now and into the future.

[amix]

I see your point folks, and thanks for your suggestions.

Now only ear will tell :-)

[Aussie Geoff]

Amix,

Happy listenning and let us know how you go.

Make sure you try a variety of music styles that you know well. Look particularly for things such as midrange clarity and control and bass tightness. Play at realistic listenning levels. You'll soon know whether the extra amplifier grunt is worth it you you ears.

Geoff

[amix]

Amix,
Happy listenning and let us know how you go.

You can bet ! I'll make sure

Make sure you try a variety of music styles that you know well.

Anyway ! I listen to a lot of different styles, ranging from strong vocal emphasisl, classical orchestral, R&B, Hip-Hop, Dance, Techno. Actually all music that is of good quality So, yes, I will make sure I get a nice allrounder!

Look particularly for things such as midrange clarity and control and bass tightness. Play at realistic listenning levels. You'll soon know whether the extra amplifier grunt is worth it you you ears.

Okay.

So, here my roadmap so far:

• Cambridge Audio 540R 6.1 (receiver, midrange)
• Harman+Kardon AVR430 (receiver, midrange)
• Arcam ACR-300 (receiver, high-range)
• Rotel RSP-1068 (+ RB-1070) + RMB-1066
• Rotel RSP-1068 (+ RB-1080) + RMB-1075
• Rotel RSP-1068 + RB-1070 + RMB-1075

It's covering different price-levels. The Rotel combo represents my personal financial High-End, in case I find the EU 800 priced receivers disappointing and the Arcam as well. But I guess before I get the Arcam, it's better to go split-combo anyway.

So, thanks again for help. Thread done

[chrispy35]

There's a lot of talk about more power never being a problem (agreed) but I'd like to just stick up for the RMB-1066 a little here and say that, for some frugal people, enough power is usually enough. If the 1066 is within your budget and the 1075 isn't, get the 1066 because you'll be happy with it.

Taking Geoff's earlier example of 105 dB using 70 W and an 89 dB/W speaker, if listening at slightly less than half the volume of a rock concert (~120 dB) is OK for you then you're probably going to be satisfied with the the 1066. With 5 or 6 speakers driven, achieving the 105 dB level shouldn't be too difficult. Admittedly, there may not be much room left for spikes in volume above that but that's usually where your sub comes in. FYI, pneumatic hammer at 2 m is ~100 dB and an accelerating motorcycle at 5 m is ~110 dB).

I've yet to notice any clipping in my setup with the 1066 which I think is the best indicator to me about how much headroom I need.

Another nice thing about the 1066 is that if you do decide you need more power, you can always pick up a 2nd amp and either bridge or bi-amp your speakers from the 1066 for a little extra breathing room.

[ht_addict]

There's a lot of talk about more power never being a problem (agreed) but I'd like to just stick up for the RMB-1066 a little here and say that, for some frugal people, enough power is usually enough. If the 1066 is within your budget and the 1075 isn't, get the 1066 because you'll be happy with it.

Taking Geoff's earlier example of 105 dB using 70 W and an 89 dB/W speaker, if listening at slightly less than half the volume of a rock concert (~120 dB) is OK for you then you're probably going to be satisfied with the the 1066. With 5 or 6 speakers driven, achieving the 105 dB level shouldn't be too difficult. Admittedly, there may not be much room left for spikes in volume above that but that's usually where your sub comes in. FYI, pneumatic hammer at 2 m is ~100 dB and an accelerating motorcycle at 5 m is ~110 dB).

I've yet to notice any clipping in my setup with the 1066 which I think is the best indicator to me about how much headroom I need.

Another nice thing about the 1066 is that if you do decide you need more power, you can always pick up a 2nd amp and either bridge or bi-amp your speakers from the 1066 for a little extra breathing room.

I help you defend this wonderful little amp. You could say its the little amp that could. Before I got my 1095(for $1550CDN) I would never have thought about selling my trusty 1066. At the time I had it powering my Paradigm Mini Monitor setup and it did so flawlessly. One thing we must all remember is unless you cranking the dial, sitting 20ft away or got a large room to fill you'll be lucky to use 4-8watts of power. If your speakers are say 90db sensitive at 8watts/1m away you putting out 99db. Now I know you have to factor in the other speakers in the setup and distance from speakers but as you can see with only a few watts output your achieving loud levels. Now as long as the amp as plenty of cap storage and output resistors you'll be ready for those intense scenes in movies. I've ran this amp in both bridged/unbridged mode while watching Saving Private Ryan DTS at loud levels and not once did this amp sound strained.

ht_addict

[amix]

Hmmm..I already had settled with the RMB-1075/RB-1080 (or RB-1070) combo, but then I calculated a little my near-future expenses and now I am back to this thread to ask what is better:

RMB-1075 for all 5 channels
or
RMB-1066 + RB-1070 with the RB-1066 either bridged or not.

Maybe someone has tried these setups ?

[Andrew Pratt]

I'd just get the 1075 as its a very capable amp and keeps things simple with room to grow later on if need be. I'm not a fan of bridging amps

[aud19]

Bridging = bad, bi-amp = better. I too would stick with the 1075 for simplicity/better performance, then later upgrade to a 1080 if you feel the need

Jason

[amix]

So a RMB-1075 sounds better in Stereo than a RB-1070 ?

I should have mentioned, that my primary focus is on listening to music. The multichannel option is to be able to play games on my HiFi and, if already developed and on the market, have some fun with surround cinema.

On the other hand, getting a 1075 would mean, that I have 5 identical power-amps, which might be better the day, when I update to multichannel audio formats, such as SACD. This is also the main reason for me to get 4 identical speakers for front and back. I was even thinking on getting a fifth CM2 for the center, but I'm drifting off topic.

[Andrew Pratt]

Musically the Rotel 2 channel amps are supposed to sound slightly better then their 5 channel cousins...meaning the 1070 should be better then the 1075 and the 1080 should be better then the 1095

[amix]

All right! Thanks

[asalvari]

Hi ht-addict

Where you have found RBM-1095 for ~1500 CAD? I am in process of getting an Rotel stuff, would you please suggest a dealer or place I can get it? (I am from GTA)

Thanks a lot
asalvari

[ht_addict]

Hi ht-addict

Where you have found RBM-1095 for ~1500 CAD? I am in process of getting an Rotel stuff, would you please suggest a dealer or place I can get it? (I am from GTA)

Thanks a lot
asalvari

You have to find a dealer getting out of the Rotel line to get a deal like I did. I just happened to walk into my dealer and he had a 1095 for $1800. I really thought about getting it at the time, but didn't pull the trigger. Lucky for me cause 2weeks later I went back in and the price was $1500. I picked it up on the spot. As far as a dealer goto Rotels site and use the dealer locator.

ht_addict

[Drew_W]

In Toronto, you now have three options:

Brack Electronics is at King and Front St. This is where i got my 1075. They carry all sorts of high end stuff. Rotel is low end there. Nevertheless, they have two fully enclosed rooms with Rotel setups in them, and they're renovating half of the rooms (again!). Best setups I've seen in the Toronto area. And they'll let you take demos home overnight so you can try them out at home. A++++ for service.

Brentview Electronics is at Mount Pleasant and St. Clair. They carry more down to earth stuff, Pioneer Elite, Harman/Kardon, etc...and Rotel, of course.

Recently, Audio One also picked up Rotel. They're just north of the Keele Campus of York University...Keele and Dufferin I think. They also carry quite a number of brands, but I haven't been there since they picked up Rotel so I can't tell you how they have it setup.

[amix]

Hi!

I am in Germany now and I went to the shops...

The RSP-1066+RMB-1075 combo sounds very very bad to me, especially in stereo mode. No way I am going to buy it, except for the low price, which is 1999 Euro (pre/pro & pa) here right now.

I also ditched the B+W speakers at all.

I am with three paths to go right now, both in electronic and speakers.

Cambridge Audio Azur 540R 6.1 (receiver) with 6x Linn Katan or 3x Linn Katan (front) and 3x Linn Klassik Unik (rear), plus a 400-650 Euro Sub.

Rotel RSP-1068 + RMB-1075 with a Dynaudio Set, Contour 1.8MkII (front) Contour or Audience 122 center, 2x Audience 42 or 52 (rear). No Sub.
However,I might add 2x Contour 1.1 for rear. Or go totally Audience, since it is unsure yet whether I will get the Countour 1.8 for as small as I want (old models, only pair left, used in demo and right tweeter is pressed in, so this would mean a repair right at first. 30% off is to small for me, I want 50% off)

T+A AV Receiver (model name unknown to me) for 5000 Euro plus the same (Contour) speaker-setup as above.

Nowhere they have the 1268 in demo ! This is bad for me, since I was very disappointed with the 1066+1075 combo. It just did not sound as nice as I would have thought it would for that money. Sure, this is 7.1 and not 2.0....

Then, after I listened to this system for one hour I asked the vendor to show me a much more expensive system with the same speakers. It was T+A, one of the best manufacturers of audio worldwide, though, maybe not known outside of EU. (http://www.taelektroakustik.de)

Sure, this was a stereo-IA. But WOW ! The Rotel was a little woom-boom, not very tight, more so lá lá. Now, the T+A painted a whole more detailed picture (I could now here more vibrations in a voice, hearing more levels of different tonal vibrations in the throat of the singer) it was much more natural, the inbstruments came to the point, all that I was missing was a little more wide soundstage, but very well this could have been the recording itself.

The IA is around 3200 Euro. Now they will bring a 7.1 Receiver. I hate Receivers. I do not even have a need for the radio :-( And it makes it just more expensive, especially here, since the tuner has to match the companies standards. T+A usually uses the very same components in variants of their stereo-line (their MIDI bricks, multichannel) and so I really dream of the 5000 Euro 7.1 Receiver or maybe only the 5.1 for 300 Euro less.

But then I could go 1098+1075 also and get a nice modular system with TFT. If I'd have the guarantee, that Rotel will produce updated cards for the 1098 within 5-10 years as well, I'd have my winner.... But so...

Well, last problem I have is, that it seems, that my beloved Dynaudio speaker-setup is too large for my room (approx. 19sqm) and in the end the room will force me to go the cheapest way, the first setup I mentioned.

Oh, btw: One delaer offered me a Linn Unidisc SC with the AV 5125 PA for 5900 Euro. The SC is a multiformat disc player (SACD, DVD-A, DVD, CD, CD-R, CD-RW, SVCD, MP3).
Thinking, that this summer Linn would give away the AKTIV moduloes for their PA for free, this could be a good deal if I'd sell it, brand-new, on ebay.

Oh, and another one: I did not listen to the Unidisc SC, it would be on my whishlist, sonic-wise, but the fabrication, the material, no stand-by, no lip-sync delay, either (!) SCART, YUV or DVI, one in, one out, only 5.1. tThis is mostly a multichannel audio (SACD, DVD-A) preamp/multiformat player and so it should be 8.1 IMO, since this is the may of the SACD specification, AFAIK, and for that price (4700 Euro retail) it should support it.

This is so fucking difficult now I heard the T+A :-(

[Aussie Geoff]

Get what you love...

Amix,

It is highly unlikely that the RSP-1098 will have upgradeable boards for the next 5-10 years. Indeed it is not at all certain whether there will be nay upgraded boards available.

However my experience leads me to know that it is always better to go with the sound you love... Otherwise you will always be thinking "what if".

Usefully you love stereo and you love the T+A technology.

Your dealer may not have mentioned that T+A have several very high quality ranges including there "more entry level" M Series that offers a range of very high quality STEREO amplifiers, CD players, Digital processors etc... Take a look HERE and then talk to your dealer.

Going stereo will also allow you to get the Dynaudio Contour speakers you love...

And (of course) T+A have a commitment to upgrades and long term upgrade paths – so that requirement is met too..

Geoff

[amix]

Amix,
It is highly unlikely that the RSP-1098 will have upgradeable boards for the next 5-10 years.

Too bad. I am a big fan of modular design. Be it computers or hifi, any electronics. I already envisioned how it might be if the manufacturers would sell cases and electronics seperate

Your dealer may not have mentioned that T+A have several very high quality ranges including there "more entry level" M Series that offers a range of very high quality STEREO amplifiers, CD players, Digital processors etc...

Hehe, well, he does not have to, since I am very familiar with T+A. I have an eye on them for 10 years now.

The M series is splendid, but does not fit my design needs (43 cm standard width). However, I toyed with the idea to get one on ebay, there I saw the M800 with the DPL add-on module, whichh can be upgraded to 5.1 DD+DTS.
2500 Euro, Immediate Buy ! Along with two front speakers and two rear-effects (also T+A). Too bad I am not an ebay member yet...

Going stereo will also allow you to get the Dynaudio Contour speakers you love...

You are right ! :-) However, I do not plan going stereo. I plan going multi-channel, that is very good in stereo. The RSP-1066+RMB-1075 definatly was not.

And (of course) T+A have a commitment to upgrades and long term upgrade paths – so that requirement is met too..

Yes, that is what I like on them. They do as a company should.
So, in Australia, T+A is available too ?

P.S. Ain't that evil ? The only system, that really fits my living-room would be a stereo or, when multi-channel, something of the lines like a Linn Classik Unik set or a set of 5 or 6 Linn Katan with a sub which then would allow for a low-budget amp like the Azur 540R 6.1

As for the saved money for sources, I do not need them: I use a HTPC for all. However, I already thought about looking into how it could be tuned for higher quality sound, since this is the only problem with HTPC (and lack of SACD/digital DVD-A). Here in Germany there seems to be an organization, which does such things semi-hobby: http://www.klangmeister.de/