Competition for the 1098

[Glenn]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/newsf...sp-5-2004.html

In case anyone hasn't seen this link, I thought I'd jot it down here. I also thought it might provide for some fresh ideas/discussion on additional wish list items for our own Rotel 1098/1068 etc products ...

[Kevin D]

Didn't have time to read the article yet, but just skimmed it. Quick question though, how is a $5000 preamp competition for the 1098??

Kevin D.

[Andrew Pratt]

About the only thing I see that it can do that the 1098 can't is the THX modes...and its hardware upgradeable but at that price it better be i'm sure its a fine processor as is the AVM20 but its also significantly more money then the 1098

[aud19]

Andrew, one other thing it can do is tune in radio stations

Jason

[Bing Fung]

Jason, You actually listen to the tuner on your systems? :

I have used the tuner on my Receiver once or twice. The first time was to tune in all the available radio stations. The last time I can't remember :rofl: I have owned my Receiver for about 4 years.

I suppose if we had better Radio stations I would tune in, but then I have a G-blaster for those times.

BOT

I actually like the looks of that Anthem unit :T There is something to be said of having direct access buttons. However I have never worked a 1098 either.

Didn't Rotels gear once carry the THX certification? What happened there?

[Andrew Pratt]

Didn't Rotels gear once carry the THX certification? What happened there?

Oh sure bring that up again :W Basically Rotel feels that THX isn't worth the added cost in todays market given the existing tools like DD, DTS and PLIIx etc.

[Bing Fung]

Oh sure bring that up again :W

Ahh, I can sense this was the proverbial horse that was beaten to death even after it was dead? :B

I appologize, total newbie in these neck of the woods.... :W

I say we hang him... I say we shoot him... I say we hang him and then we shoot him...

[Andrew Pratt]

Yup it was quite a thread...that ended up locked

[aud19]

Jason, You actually listen to the tuner on your systems? :

Nope. I don't even have a tuner in my main system :lol: Just being my fecitious self Bing :B Never mind that a tuner is just one more thing to add interference in your pre/pro, though that one's probably well shielded

Jason

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

Interesting article and thanks for posting it. Our RSP-1098 at nearly half the price looks good....

For me the upconversion to the 192 Kz of ALL digital signals including Dolby and DTS is a neat feature. I suggest it would be a good wish list item for the V5.0 RSP-1098 wish list (though it may end up in the new hardware category )

Geoff

[LEVESQUE]

In Canada, the D1 can be have for less $ then the 1098.

That's why I did order one... :T

And Anthem did do some hardware upgrades to the AVM20. We are still waiting for Rotel to do anything like this...

[DrBoom]

Maybe a little offtopic, but then again not.
I'm going to compare my RSP1098 with a Parasound C2 tomorrow, or possibly on sunday.
I've already made the trade once, when going from a Rotel 1075 to a Para 2205AT, so I'm very curious how these two surround behemoths will compare.
Only reason i'm considering the trade is because I can get the C2 at a pretty good price used, around 8 months old.
I'll let you know how it turns out

[Bam!]

Bing!

whatch you doin' here ?

:lol:

You Rotel lover you!!!!! :W

[dbart]

"Basically Rotel feels that THX isn't worth the added cost in todays market given the existing tools like DD, DTS and PLIIx etc."
__________________

Andrew,

I don't want to dig up an old topic that's already been dicussed, but I think this statement by Rotel is missing the boat by what THX is all about. Some think its just a stamp on the front, but we know that is definetly not the case. Obviously Anthem AVM20, and some others seems to think its worth while at the same price point of the 1098.

Dave

[Bing Fung]

Bing!

whatch you doin' here ?

:lol:

You Rotel lover you!!!!! :W

Just trying to learn by osmoses :B

[LEVESQUE]

I was able to do a listening session and compare the 1098 with the D1 in the same room yesterday.

The D1 is in a different league sonically. The 1098 is great, but the D1 is a good improvement over the AVM20, that was already the equivalent or better then the Rotel.

IMHO, after listening to both, the D1 is superior to the 1098. They are not competitors at all.

The 1098 can go toe-to-toe with the AVM20, but not with the D1.

[Glenn]

how is a $5000 preamp competition for the 1098??

Rotel products are often compared, and do very well, against other higher priced brands. I remember a magazine article that did a test of multichannel pre/power amps, that put the Rotel 1066/1075 against competition including the Arcam AV8/P7 and the TAG AV30R/100X5R:10. Both at almost 3.5 times the price of the Rotel combo. The winner (in the opinion of this magazine and test) - Rotel.

For those with the funds and who are choosing a preamp, I would think they would look at the 1098 and this Anthem product for the simple fact that they do offer similar features. How they compare sonically, each would have to decide that for themselves.

Additionally, as Aussie Geoff illustrated, perhaps the article would get our creative minds working to come up with additional features that we hadn't previously thought of, to continue bettering/improving the Rotel products that we enjoy.

[DrBoom]

Well, after comparing the C2 against the 1098 yesterday, i can say the following:

The 1098 is built heavier, weighing 2x as much, mainly due to the 2 toroidal transformers.
Frontpanel of the 1098 is also thicker than the C2's.
So I'm willing to say it's built better than the C2, mechanically.
But if we get to the sound department, things take a different turn.
Although I liked the 1098, there were a few things that bothered me.
N°1 was the lousy S/N ratio, which i've always found rather low (looking at the specs) rated at only 90 dB.
The C2 confirmed this, with a minimum of 98 dB for digital, 102 dB for analog and 107 dB for the 7.1 input.
For example, the C2's noise level (with no input signal) at 0 dB THX reference level is about the same as the 1098's with the volume at 1 (just over Mute) !!
This translates into a much quieter background when listening at moderate to high volumes, especially for DVD's.
N°2 was the harsh and over-pronounced sibilants (c, f, s, ...) that the 1098 produced, the C2 does this much smoother.
Another thing is resolution, something I've always felt the 1098 lacked for it's price.
The C2 is better at distinguishing several sounds from each other, very obvious in choirs, and revealing higher harmonics in trumpets, violins and other instruments.
One thing I can say in defense of the 1098, it has a more pronounced midrange, which is good for low level listening.
But on the other hand it can be too much at higher volumes.
One last thing, since I've had the 1098, I've been playing at lower listening levels than I used to, because it always seemed to dislike volume settings over 66.
If pushed hard, it started to sound really agressive.
And I must admit, I didn't really care for the uncontrollable TFT, and didn't really have any use for it.
I would have loved the 1098 if Rotel didn't put in the TFT, but instead invested the extra money in better components to get it to higher performance levels.
From what I'm hearing, the 1068 sounds VERY much the same, but costs only half of the 1098 (over here it does).
And I still don't understand why on earth it isn't possible to adjust settings on the 1068's display, when it IS possible on virtually every receiver on the market.
They should've given the 1098 a normal display, but with setup access, and invest the extra money in better DAC's and opamps.
That would've made it stand out from the crowd in the audio department, and not just looks.

[LEVESQUE]

DrBoom.

My findings were almost the same when comparing the Anthem D1 to the 1098. :T

I would really like to compare the D1 with the C2. I think it would be an interesting shoot-out.

The D1 is an outstanding performer and value, IMHO. But I have never heard the C2 (tough to find where I live...).

[Mark_C.]

The D1 may certainly be an outstanding performer. But value? That's certainly a subjective measure in the eye of the beholder. There aren't too many folks who find a $5,000 (U.S.) pre/pro to be an outstanding value. For five grand, it better be an outstanding performer.

As for the Rotel 1098: When it first appeared, folks were wowed by the display screen. Boy, have attitudes changed since. I hope Rotel and all the others got the message on that one: stop with the gee-whiz gimmicks and give us something of substance like outstanding audio and video performance. I'm a very happy Rotel customer BTW.

[DrBoom]

After another day of switching back and forth between the C2 and the 1098, things are taking a turn for the unexpected.
I'm currently experiencing something i've never had before, I'm actually doubting if the C2 is that much better than the 1098. :E
It's really driving me absolutely crazy, as I heard sooo much about the C2, and now that I have it, it's really not that awesome as I expected.
The one thing that COULD be messing up everything, and perhaps keeping the C2 from unfolding it's maximum potential, is my el-cheapo Panasonic DVD player which is still my only audio/video source.
So I'm going to put my final decision on hold, until I can be 100% sure.
Thing is, I've already bought and payed for the C2, so I currently own 2 top-notch processors :roll:
Obviously one of them is going to be sold, but I'm having a terrible time deciding, something I absolutely wasn't prepared for !
Both of them have their ups and downs, but in totally different areas.
Things I like about the C2: Tight bass, very quiet (hiss), fast input signal detection, no clicks on volume change, can play really loud without becoming fatiguing
Things I like about the 1098: Incredible build quality (makes the C2 look like a toy ! ), clear midrange, price/performance ratio, superb bass management, component upconversion

I'll let you know how this dilemma turns out, at the moment it can still swing either way...

[LEVESQUE]

Mark.

The D1 can be bought for half that price in Canada...

Cheaper then the 1098 up here. So it's a no brainer.

[DrJRapp]

Having only one weak AV source is definitly a problem. Neither processor will sound at it's potential unless fed properly. Also, I was wondering if you have done any a/b with different interconnects. I read in your earlier posts about the 1098 sounding silabant with c, s, f, etc sounds. I encountered that with my 1066 when I first got it, until I switched to better and less bright interconnects.

[zeppelin]

I hope this thread dont get lock again LoL
No matter what compare in price Rotel is still the winner.
One thing that Rotel should do is that they should put in a better OP Amps for a few dollars more only. That will certainly improve a lot in terms of sound and signal to noise ratio.

[Andrew Pratt]

I hope this thread dont get lock again LoL

So long as everyone behaves themselves I have no problem with it

[soldonandy]

"Better, less bright" interconnects, you have got to be kidding.

Also, Rotel is slapping THX on their products such as their amps so they believe that it must have some appeal in the amps but not in the re-amps. I think that they have this reversed, my Anthem AVM 20 is THX Ultra and has several options for configuration relating to THX processing which may have some use on some level vs just putting "THX" on an amp.

[Andrew Pratt]

Also, Rotel is slapping THX on their products such as their amps so they believe that it must have some appeal in the amps but not in the re-amps.

Not really. Rotel's previous generation of amps passed the THX certification and they didn't change that much so the old license still applies so Rotel left the THX badge on the front. It doesn't hurt but I doubt we'll see future Rotel amps being subjected to THX testing.

[mjb]

It doesn't hurt but I doubt we'll see future Rotel amps being subjected to THX testing.

And I'm totally OK with that. It has often been said that Rotel equipment EXCEEDS the THX licensing requirements by a wide margin, which makes THX testing a pointless (and expensive) exercise.