Sub yes or no

**RogueAngel** · 09 February 2003, 09:37 Sunday

Maziar,

I can't speak for most, or even a few. I can only comment on my system. I use my system mostly for music, say 80% of the time I am concentrating on the music/movie.

I have a 5.2 system, with the .2 being two DIY sealed subs with Adire Shiva's as the drivers. My subs are built into the same cabinet as the mains, and therefore by default make my mains bi-amp'd.

I use a Behringer BFD to smooth out the bass in-room response and have carefully matched the output of the mains and the subs. I think this is THE critical step for integrating the subs in a system for music.

My mains have an F3 of 41 Hz, however I cross the subs in at 100 Hz. I do this to take most of the bass load off the mains to make sure I can't overdrive the mains. I think you have to crossover at a lower frequency if you only have one sub for it to integrate well with the mains for music.

With that all as a background, IMHO it necessary for any system to play flat below 30 Hz. I have averaged about 12 concerts a year for the past 4 years and find that the subs are necessary to capture the bass I hear live when reproduced at home. The bass content is there in the recordings and I think most systems can't play it properly so we aren't used to hearing it at home. Last night I was listening to a Tracy Chapman LP and there was a couple of times that the bass actually caused the couch to vibrate, and this only happens with very low bass. What I was hearing at the time that happened was matching the sound when I heard her in concert here in Seattle at Benaroya Hall. It wasn't overblown or muddy, just surprising because I wasn't expecting that LP to have that powerful bass line.

IMHO the subs have to be capable of a "tight" sound and you need a really good amp driving them to make it sound right for music. If you can achieve this, I think....Yes, you are missing something if your in room response isn't flat down to the really low octaves.

Hope this helps. Oh BTW........I do live in an apartment also........it does help to have "understanding" neighbors.

**Madd** · 09 February 2003, 10:14 Sunday

1) Do most people use subs?

Yes, I feel it is as important as a Center Channel speaker.

2) Do you feel that sometime they become too excessive and over powering in sound?

No, you need them for movies.

3) Do you have to get used to them?

? They just have to be dialed in properly

4) Could it be that the systems I heard were not calibrated properly

Yes

5) Do people generally use subs for movie soundtracks or they use them with music as well, specially with 5.1 music?

I use mine for Music too. The Eagles DVD in DTS sounds GREAT

A sub is an important piece to the whole system for HT. Some purist do like subs for music. I am not one of them.

Never argue with a fool,one may not know the difference!

**Andrew Pratt** · 09 February 2003, 12:28 Sunday

1) Do most people use subs?

I'd say that most people use subs

2) Do you feel that sometime they become too excessive and over powering in sound?

Only in systems where they aren't dialed in properly or the CD has too much bass. One example is Chantal Kreviazuk's latest since its bass is way to hot and sounds horrible even on dialed system

3) Do you have to get used to them?

When done properly this isn't an issue...it would be like saying do you have to get used to the midrange?

4) Could it be that the systems I heard were not calibrated properly?

Its very likely the systems you heard before we not set up properly.

5) Do people generally use subs for movie soundtracks or they use them with music as well, specially with 5.1 music?

Definatly for movies and often for music. I leave my subs on for both but I'm thinking of extending the low end of my mains to cover the low end better in which case I won't need the sub as often. Part of it depends on what you're listening to.

**jaakan** · 09 February 2003, 14:02 Sunday

>1) Do most people use subs?

Most have a sub for a few reasons
a. X.1 is easy to understand, it Marketing.
b. Extend to range of the other speakers.
c. Some people don't like full range towers all the way around because of Cost, Space, room design, Wife factor.

> 2) Do you feel that sometime they become too excessive and over powering in sound?

yes and no, it's all in calibration.

> 3) Do you have to get used to them?

either you love or you hate them, if you have to live with them you will.

> 4) Could it be that the systems I heard were not calibrated properly?

Most people don't know how to calibrate them.

> 5) Do people generally use subs for movie soundtracks or they use them with music as well, specially with 5.1 music?

both

The funny thing about DVDA and SACD there is no .1 or if it's there it's all the bass info mixed from the other channels, very rare. On every DTS CD I have seen/bought, in the booklet it says the ideal setup is Full ranges, equal, speakers on all channels.

**mazuly** · 09 February 2003, 23:23 Sunday

Thanks for everybody’s comments. I may give them a try to see how I like them (I hope my neighbors are as understanding as yours RogueAngel

). Maybe I would like them if I have them in my system for a month or so.

Now, how would I set them up? Would I use a sound pressure meter and pink noise form 1066 or AVIA disk to set them up or is there a special way to set them up. Also how would you place them in the room. I have heard that you have to move them around until they sound good. Is that true?

Thanks for your help again,
Maziar

**JKohn** · 10 February 2003, 01:25 Monday

IMHO, it's just about impossible to get a sub to integrate well enough that it doesn't overpower music unless you are EQ-ing it. But when you do, it blends very well and adds a nice depth without overpowering the other speakers.

Jeff Kohn

http://home.houston.rr.com/jeffkohn

Sub yes or no

Sub yes or no

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