Rlc-1040

[BWLover]

Hi there. Is there any point in buying better power cords for either 1) wall outlet to RLC-1040, and 2)RLC-1040 to any of my rotel gear? (1040 to 1072/1082/1080)

Thank you.

[madmac]

Hi there. Is there any point in buying better power cords for either 1) wall outlet to RLC-1040, and 2)RLC-1040 to any of my rotel gear? (1040 to 1072/1082/1080)

Thank you.

A short and quick answer to that question is no. There is no point. However, a good power conditioner/ spike protector is a really good idea. Power is power.....if the unit is not getting the required power it will not work. If it is......it will work. It's kinda' like digital cables really. Either the one's and zero's get there and are processed or they don't. :W

[PewterTA]

I beg to differ there's no point... I was one that didn't believe there could be a difference...until I got a decent power cable and there is differences. Now they aren't major night and day differences. It's more just getting a slightly better sound from your equipment.

Now most of this has to do with a better quality copper used than what's in the cheap cables that come with your equipment. Also allowing the electricity to flow as freely as it can.

Honestly I could never really hear any difference in the power cables until I modified my equipment and now if I plug the stock power cable back into the equipment... there's a shimmer my system and realistic sound that seems to go away. That's about the best I can describe it.

The power cables I got were BlackSandsAudio (http://blacksandcable.ca/) Violet Z1s (for less than what's on their site). The owner was really nice and a real pleasure to talk to and really will steer you to what fits your system, not what will make them/him the most money. The build quality is top notch I have to say.

They have been the one purchase that I didn't expect anything from and was happy with the changes and am glad I did take the jump.

I will say that I think it's one of the later things that one should do as most equipment until it all reaches a certain level, you can't tell the differences with.

Of course it's all just opinions and I'm sure people will say that one can't tell any differences... yet everyone that I know and respect their opinions on audio... almost everyone has upgraded their power cables. And none of them are with ultra exotic power cables costing $$$$$.

[BWLover]

My issue is if its worth it when you have a power conditioner. Which I do.

[stuofsci02]

I beg to differ there's no point... I was one that didn't believe there could be a difference...until I got a decent power cable and there is differences. Now they aren't major night and day differences. It's more just getting a slightly better sound from your equipment.

Now most of this has to do with a better quality copper used than what's in the cheap cables that come with your equipment. Also allowing the electricity to flow as freely as it can.

Honestly I could never really hear any difference in the power cables until I modified my equipment and now if I plug the stock power cable back into the equipment... there's a shimmer my system and realistic sound that seems to go away. That's about the best I can describe it.

The power cables I got were BlackSandsAudio (http://blacksandcable.ca/) Violet Z1s (for less than what's on their site). The owner was really nice and a real pleasure to talk to and really will steer you to what fits your system, not what will make them/him the most money. The build quality is top notch I have to say.

They have been the one purchase that I didn't expect anything from and was happy with the changes and am glad I did take the jump.

I will say that I think it's one of the later things that one should do as most equipment until it all reaches a certain level, you can't tell the differences with.

Of course it's all just opinions and I'm sure people will say that one can't tell any differences... yet everyone that I know and respect their opinions on audio... almost everyone has upgraded their power cables. And none of them are with ultra exotic power cables costing $$$$$.

Were the new and stock cables the same gauge?

[stuofsci02]

A short and quick answer to that question is no. There is no point. However, a good power conditioner/ spike protector is a really good idea. Power is power.....if the unit is not getting the required power it will not work. If it is......it will work. It's kinda' like digital cables really. Either the one's and zero's get there and are processed or they don't. :W

This is not really true. Power is not power..

For instance 15 amps @ 120V gives you 1800 watts... 30 amps @ 60V also gives you 1800 watts.. The first will power your amp, the second will not..

Now if you use an undersized power cord, aside from risking a fire, you also can cause a voltage drop. What starts as ~120V ends up at less at your amp.. It may end up as 108V which will probably still power your amp, but will not allow the amp to makes its max power and depending on the amp design could cause a bunch of other nasties...

Now in general I do agree that two cords appropriately sized and with good connectors should not sound any different.

[wkhanna]

My belief, based on actually listening/comparing different power cables in my system & other systems, is yes. They can make a difference. Whether that difference is for the better or not is up to individual preference.

However, he real question is, IMHO, when is the resolution of a system at the point where it is capable of allowing the effects of cables to be easily discernible.

[stuofsci02]

My belief, based on actually listening/comparing different power cables in my system & other systems, is yes. They can make a difference.

The real question is, IMHO, when is the resolution of a system at the point where it is capable of allowing the effects of cables to be easily discernible?

It would be easy to determine this if someone could explain how a "good" power cable improves sound. This is, what does it actually do.

But until now I have never heard any plausible explanation.

Cheers

[wkhanna]

I have heard/read lots of 'explanations'.
I would never know the difference between a plausible one & pure fiction.

Again, I present the argument that because a pink elephant has never been seen proves only that one has not yet been found. It does not prove they do not exist.

[stuofsci02]

I have heard/read lots of 'explanations'.
I would never know the difference between a plausible one & pure fiction.

Again, I present the argument that because a pink elephant has never been seen proves only that one has not yet been found. It does not prove they do not exist.

Agreed, but to design a better sounding power cord, it should be assumed that the designer understands what he/she is doing to achieve the better sound. Otherwise the reasoning can only be seen as random.

Do you have any links to explanations? I would love to have a look..

[madmac]

It would be easy to determine this if someone could explain how a "good" power cable improves sound. This is, what does it actually do.

But until now I have never heard any plausible explanation.

Cheers

Exactly!!. :T

[Kevin D]

The real answer is yes, no, and maybe. Feel free to continue the spirited discussion, but don't delve into a pissing match. You can't 'prove' it one way or the other, so try to contain it to your experiences (and only if you have them).

Kevin D.

[stuofsci02]

The real answer is yes, no, and maybe. Feel free to continue the spirited discussion, but don't delve into a pissing match. You can't 'prove' it one way or the other, so try to contain it to your experiences (and only if you have them).

Kevin D.

Of course :W

[madmac]

Don't get me wrong.....I'm a huge believer in good cables and connections in audio but power is quite another thing. My Rotel amp came with what looks like a very nice, thick, grounded power cable. I can honestly say that the power is getting to the unit and that if I switched it out for a thicker, gold plated power cable that it simply would not make a difference performance wise. I'm just being real and honest here!!.

[wkhanna]

Do you have any links to explanations? I would love to have a look..

The internet is full of them, just like the advertising material from most manufactures.

I have a science & mechanical engineering background, but am not formally trained in electrical or electronic engineering.

For example, Cryogenics is just one of the many ‘Treatments’ being touted to improve the audible quality of materials used in the audio equipment market. I have worked with cryogenically modified materials, but only in the realm of how the mechanical properties are affected. In fact, cryo metals are nothing new. Swiss watch makers of the 19th century would often burry their finest metal ingot in the snow banks of the Alps for months. Once retrieved, they were used to fashion the intricate workings of the rugged timepieces they are so famous for.

And of course, the colder the environment the lower electrical resistance becomes. At absolute Zero, there theoretically is no electrical resistance. Hence the use of liquid nitrogen in some of the earlier generation ‘super computers’. Not V practical to keep your DAC, amp & cables immersed in a vat of LN2 however.

There is also the process of multi-step roll forming/extrusion where a single ingot of metal is drawn into a very long wire step by step. By continually drawing (stretching) the metal into finer & finer diameter the molecules are thought to be elongated. Hence for a fixed length of material, the number of molecules are reduced compared to the original material. Supposedly, the said length will provide less resistance to the electrons flowing from atom to atom since there are few atoms per the given length.

So now I can sell you my hyper-cryo, super exponentially extruded un-obtainium, 12 nine pure copper wire coated with nano-spherical silver-oxide, created in a magnaflux atmosphere power cable.

Sounds good to me.

[wkhanna]

My issue is if its worth it when you have a power conditioner. Which I do.

Back on topic......

All the systems I have heard aftermarket power cables on also used power conditioners.

[PewterTA]

I have the APC S15 Power conditioner and battery. I had it way before I got my cables.

With where I put the new cables, Amps, Pre, and CDP... did not put one from the wall to the APC, I have felt they made a difference.

The first thing I noticed was things sound more real. Cymbals were the one thing I noticed, they had a lot longer decay, just like sitting at a drum set and striking a single cymbal and just hearing how long the decay is. My system before the cables, didn't have that. After they did... so I can't point that change to anything else than the cables. Now again... it's not like holy crap the difference...but it's there.

The other thing I noticed was the quickness and power. Before the cables, something like a plucked bass string that's instantly muted. That didn't have the "energy" to it with the stock cables. It seemed more muted and the "attack" to the plucking wasn't as strong.

So I'm guessing, in my theory that is, that the new cables allow the power to reach the equipment more quickly without as much loss through resistance....!?!???? I have no idea.

The new cables are 12AWG... I'm not 100% positive what Rotel packs in their equipment...but I'd say it's similar to 12 - 16AWG....

[stuofsci02]

The internet is full of them, just like the advertising material from most manufactures.

I have a science & mechanical engineering background, but am not formally trained in electrical or electronic engineering.

For example, Cryogenics is just one of the many ‘Treatments’ being touted to improve the audible quality of materials used in the audio equipment market. I have worked with cryogenically modified materials, but only in the realm of how the mechanical properties are affected. In fact, cryo metals are nothing new. Swiss watch makers of the 19th century would often burry their finest metal ingot in the snow banks of the Alps for months. Once retrieved, they were used to fashion the intricate workings of the rugged timepieces they are so famous for.

And of course, the colder the environment the lower electrical resistance becomes. At absolute Zero, there theoretically is no electrical resistance. Hence the use of liquid nitrogen in some of the earlier generation ‘super computers’. Not V practical to keep your DAC, amp & cables immersed in a vat of LN2 however.

There is also the process of multi-step roll forming/extrusion where a single ingot of metal is drawn into a very long wire step by step. By continually drawing (stretching) the metal into finer & finer diameter the molecules are thought to be elongated. Hence for a fixed length of material, the number of molecules are reduced compared to the original material. Supposedly, the said length will provide less resistance to the electrons flowing from atom to atom since there are few atoms per the given length.

So now I can sell you my hyper-cryo, super exponentially extruded un-obtainium, 12 nine pure copper wire coated with nano-spherical silver-oxide, created in a magnaflux atmosphere power cable.

Sounds good to me.

It is funny since my background is Electrical Engineering and I did at one point work in the cable manufacturing industry. We used the same process to drawing out copper from very thick coils that were 100ft long into cables that were miles long. These cables were large multiconductor cables with up to 5700 conductors and were used in the telecom industry.

This is perhaps why I have a problem with the cable discussion in general, when there is little to no science backing up the idea... In my research I quite often come across explanations that make me roll my eyes..

[stuofsci02]

I have the APC S15 Power conditioner and battery. I had it way before I got my cables.

With where I put the new cables, Amps, Pre, and CDP... did not put one from the wall to the APC, I have felt they made a difference.

The first thing I noticed was things sound more real. Cymbals were the one thing I noticed, they had a lot longer decay, just like sitting at a drum set and striking a single cymbal and just hearing how long the decay is. My system before the cables, didn't have that. After they did... so I can't point that change to anything else than the cables. Now again... it's not like holy crap the difference...but it's there.

The other thing I noticed was the quickness and power. Before the cables, something like a plucked bass string that's instantly muted. That didn't have the "energy" to it with the stock cables. It seemed more muted and the "attack" to the plucking wasn't as strong.

So I'm guessing, in my theory that is, that the new cables allow the power to reach the equipment more quickly without as much loss through resistance....!?!???? I have no idea.

The new cables are 12AWG... I'm not 100% positive what Rotel packs in their equipment...but I'd say it's similar to 12 - 16AWG....

Probably it is 14 or 16 gauge with a small likelyhood that it is 18. It should say right on it..

[BWLover]

So is the recommendation for new power cables more from wall outlet to 1040 power conditioner? Or from the 1040 to the cdp/pre/cd?

[stuofsci02]

So is the recommendation for new power cables more from wall outlet to 1040 power conditioner? Or from the 1040 to the cdp/pre/cd?

Not from me...

[wkhanna]

Dan & I feel the best place to start with power cord upgrades is with your source equipment. Pre-apms, DAC’s & CDp’s would be the logical place to start. We have come to this conclusion by way of first-hand experimentation.

as always, JMHO YMMV

[PewterTA]

:agree:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

stuofsci02, I have to bust the cable out just to verify, it's buried in the closet somewhere...but now you got me wondering, I'll have to go check!

Best thing to do if you're interested is find some place that will give you a return policy... that way once you buy if you don't think it makes any difference you can return it.

I still think it goes to the fact that most after market cables (for just about anything) are of a higher build quality (better products all around) and what comes with most equipment and that's what helps make a difference. Whether it's noticeable or not depends on tons of other factors.