Sub level issue with RSP 1570

[usul]

Hello all..

Just got my new toy about 1 month ago..

I replaced my Anthem D2V with ARC for this... Mainly because I have rotel amps and love the sound, and always thought the Anthem lacked in something..

To my surprise, the rotel blew the anthem away at much less cost..
Sound is so much richer/warmer now, as the anthem even with ARC was very clinical sound.. Could not listen to music for too long, ...


Anyway,, the Sub issue..

On the Anthem when using the internal test tones and even a Yamaha I tried for fun, I would set all the channels to 75db with a SPL meter set to c weight and slow.

All seems perfect, very deep loud bass, and balanced..

However, on Rotel, no so...

I did the same procedure, but found the sub to be very lacking..

I was shocked... The internal test tones for sure was at the 75db, and all the speakers were set to small 80hz, and sub freq. on sub itself was turned all way up..


So, to confirm, I loaded my test blu-ray that has all the advanced audio tracks with test tones..

To my meter all channels were in line (all at 75db), but sub was way off..

Like 5-7db too Low... 8O

I then turned the sub channel up to get 75db, and WOW, much better...

Sounded more like the bass from the Anthem..

So, I emailed Rotel about this, and was wondering what you fine people have found or think of this issue..

Thanks..

[Frank Helmling]

Sorry usul but I can't see your problem? Test tones and the LFE Channel seem to be a very confusing topic since you (and me ) are not able to level it out this way... . I made the same observation with my RSX 1550 so I levelt the sub correctly at 75db and had to add to the sub level in the sublevel menu the following: DTS +2db / Stereo +3db / DolbyDigital +5db /DolbyPLII +3db to suit my personal demands with my listening level wich is usually 10 -15db below the referecence level:

For example: My reference level is at volumelevel 81 and I like to listen to
Terminator 4 at volumelevel 65 (DTS HD +2db) (above it's excesively loud) and DVD attack of the clones (DolbyDigitalEx +5db) at volumelevel 73.
I think the bass would be perfect without these leveladjustments when played at referencelevel but I have never managed to play a movie this loud....so I pimp a little bass in there....

[Frank Helmling]

A second reason is that we're all confusing our spl meter with our individual room characteristics: The test tone consists of different frequencies which the spl meter receives influenced through your roommodes which add gains at some points and reduces them on others. So you (and of course, all of us) are leveling our subs at "roommodelevel" and therefore lack the bassimpact on the rest of the bassfrequencyrange" in an untreated listening environment. Combine this to my abovementioned "psychoacustic" phenomen and you have the lack of bass....

[usul]

A second reason is that we're all confusing our spl meter with our individual room characteristics: The test tone consists of different frequencies which the spl meter receives influenced through your roommodes which add gains at some points and reduces them on others. So you (and of course, all of us) are leveling our subs at "roommodelevel" and therefore lack the bassimpact on the rest of the bassfrequencyrange" in an untreated listening environment. Combine this to my abovementioned "psychoacustic" phenomen and you have the lack of bass....

Very true and sad...

I did notice that the tones used in rotel are of a much wider band width, as compared the blu-ray test tones with seemed to narrow the band..

I found that yamaha, anthem, etc, all seem to use the narrow band width, as rotel seems to use a wider one...

Not sure why the differences between units.. Who is right.....

Thanks again..

I guess we just have to watch some movies and turn up/down the sub until we are happy..

[Frank Helmling]

BTW: What are your preferred listening levels with examples and what speakers do you use? If you have capable mains try to run them at full band which will help improve your battle over the roommodes....

[usul]

BTW: What are your preferred listening levels with examples and what speakers do you use? If you have capable mains try to run them at full band which will help improve your battle over the roommodes....

I like to listen to about -10 to -6db from reference..

I have paradigm studio 60's, and 2 paradigm servo 15's V2..

Each sub does not help one another.. One sub does 1 half of listening area and other does other half.. Strange room...

[hifiguymi]

Here is something I've found works great at integrating subs better than just using test tones - http://www.velodyne.com/products/pro...5&sid=350n922d . It's a multi band parametric EQ with it's own internal frequency sweep and microphone. It's done wonders for any system I've sold it with.

Eric

[usul]

Here is something I've found works great at integrating subs better than just using test tones - http://www.velodyne.com/products/pro...5&sid=350n922d . It's a multi band parametric EQ with it's own internal frequency sweep and microphone. It's done wonders for any system I've sold it with.

Eric

Sounds much like ARC was for the Anthem I had...

However, even with anthem without ARC, the bass after set with it's tones was at correct level..

Just with Rotel, when set to right level, it actually seems much lower when playing material.

Oh well, will have to set by ear me thinks.. :T

[Kevin D]

It isn't a bug, but rather two different ways of doing the same thing.

Per THX, a theater should be capable of hitting 105db on the main channels and 115db on the LFE. Test-tones are sent out at 30db below reference. So in this instance the Rotel test-tones are correct, but you would need to set the LFE channel to 85db (75+30=105, 85+30=115).

Some setup discs and other receivers go ahead and cut the LFE test-tone by 10db. So in that instance the main channel test-tones are sent 30db below reference and the sub is sent 40db below reference. (75+30=105, 75+40=115). That way you set everything to 75db.

Either way is correct, as long as you know how they send it out.

Kevin D.

[usul]

It isn't a bug, but rather two different ways of doing the same thing.

Per THX, a theater should be capable of hitting 105db on the main channels and 115db on the LFE. Test-tones are sent out at 30db below reference. So in this instance the Rotel test-tones are correct, but you would need to set the LFE channel to 85db (75+30=105, 85+30=115).

Some setup discs and other receivers go ahead and cut the LFE test-tone by 10db. So in that instance the main channel test-tones are sent 30db below reference and the sub is sent 40db below reference. (75+30=105, 75+40=115). That way you set everything to 75db.

Either way is correct, as long as you know how they send it out.

Kevin D.

Awesome... I did not even think of that... ops:

So, with the internal test tones, set all level to 75 db, but for sub, set to 85db??

I guess when I had the anthem, they prob. were doing this internal, so when all levels were set to 75db, the sub was really 85...

Found Yamaha to be same as anthem.. Must be a rotel thing... :T