Will it make a big difference upgrading the amplifier?

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  • BlueSander
    Member
    • Apr 2008
    • 56

    Will it make a big difference upgrading the amplifier?

    Hi, just wondering guys. Have any of you upgraded only the amplifier and see a big difference from your speakers? :roll:
    Thanks
  • HDBLU
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2008
    • 311

    #2
    I Have I bought a A5-5 Musical Fidelity Amplifier and it made my speakers sound so much better what amplifier do you have know, and what are you thinking of upgrading to?
    2ch Setup
    Krix Neupohonix
    Musical Fidelity M6i
    Musical Fidelity M6CDP
    Denon DCD-1510 SACD Player

    Cables I Use
    MIT

    Comment

    • sirbogey
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2006
      • 346

      #3
      I upgraded many years ago from my RSX-1055 receiver to RSP-1098 and then added a separate amplifier RMB-1075. Every single upgrade, a noticeable difference. They I got some silver catcables from Doug inbetween the 1098 and the 1075, that made an improvement as well. But I'd suggest investing in couple of decent speaekers first....

      Comment

      • planitismetal
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 212

        #4
        Which speakers and which amp you have... Depends...

        Comment

        • PewterTA
          Moderator
          • Nov 2004
          • 2901

          #5
          I went to the RB-1090 and it made a huge difference in the musicality of my system. Watching movies... any amp I've had is about the same.

          I went from a Yamaha receiver, to Rotel RB-1095/1080 to the 1090. Each change made a difference, small, the 1090 made the biggest difference.
          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
          -Dan

          Comment

          • BlueSander
            Member
            • Apr 2008
            • 56

            #6
            I'm comparing between RSX 1065 to RMB 1075 or RB-1562. Which one of the later two you guys think will me the best sound?

            Comment

            • Mig17
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2008
              • 169

              #7
              Upgrade electronics make huge diffrenent than upgrade the speakers

              Comment

              • PewterTA
                Moderator
                • Nov 2004
                • 2901

                #8
                It'll make a difference, more in how each amp has a change in how it sounds...more so than a real performance gain in all areas.

                I'd say you need to demo...the 1075/1562 isn't a huge difference to me over the 1065. It'll sound a little bit better, but how much difference you're looking at... I just don't know.

                To me you might notice a nice difference with the 1572 or 1582...at least enough to justify the price difference.

                For 2ch though, I still haven't found a Rotel amp that (for the price now used) can beat the RB-1090.
                Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                -Dan

                Comment

                • Hoopofficial
                  Member
                  • Dec 2004
                  • 44

                  #9
                  Absolutely can make a difference depending on where you are coming from. Receiver to seperates, type of speaker, etc. I buy used so there can be alot of trial and error involved. Buying used at good prices minimizes the loss if you want to move in a different direction. I went through 3 different amps before I was happy. I bought cheaper and was not satisfied so I moved up until I found a sound I could live with. I will say that if you buy a quality amp, the difference to upgrade to a more expensive amp will not justify the cost IMHO. There are many articles out there debating an "amps sound". Many say that there are no audible differences between Amps once you hit a certain "quality" point. Notice, I didn't say price point. :W It depends if you want to drink the "Kool-Aid". To me, you need to find a good amp at a resonable price that you like the sound. There is no perfect solution out there at any price. :T

                  Comment

                  • WelshOne
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 117

                    #10
                    Does the same question apply purely for HT?

                    I have a 1575, and have a little bit of spare cash. Im considering upgrading the amp to power my 800 series B&W's. The thing is, for movies it sounds fantastic, and im trying to gauge whether upgrading it is necessary, especially as everything is crossed to the sub at 60hz?

                    Is there really a point where more power becomes unneccesary?

                    For 2ch listening, or speakers at full range I can see where big amps have their place?

                    Is there always a need for a rack of brystons/krells/classe etc etc when your main use is HT, crossover at 60hz?

                    Should I just spend my money on more Blurays, or am I missing out on something special using uber amps?

                    Comment

                    • jbreezy5
                      Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 59

                      #11
                      Originally posted by BlueSander
                      Hi, just wondering guys. Have any of you upgraded only the amplifier and see a big difference from your speakers? :roll:
                      Thanks
                      Definitely! There are several different factors that can affect the sound with different amplifiers.

                      For example:
                      Headroom - more power can equate to a more effortless sounding presentation and a bigger soundstage.

                      Damping Factor - a high damping factor will grip the speaker drivers better producing tighter, better controlled, and more impactful bass. (And yet you'll notice your speaker cones visibly appear to move less!)

                      Parts Quality - a higher cost amp often has higher cost parts which are designed to work within stricter tolerances making the amplifier more linear. Subjectively, sonically this is audible but is more subtle (would classify this under the law of diminishing returns). In other words, the sonic result doesn't always justify the associated cost. I do think this factor is often overlooked, however.

                      Tubes vs. Solid-state - They sound different (usually b/c of the above mentioned factors, as well as, what type of distortion they have, e.g. 2nd harmonic, 3rd harmonic). Tubes typically add a texture and palpability that solid-state can't; solid-state tends to have a more linear frequency response resulting in stronger bass characteristics and more extended high frequencies. (I'm speaking in generalities here).

                      These factors from amp-to-amp will yield different results with different speakers. That is why system matching is so important. This amp with that speaker may sound like a nightmare, but this amp with the other speaker give you sonic nirvana.

                      You really have to consider not only the above factors of the amplifier, but also factors of the speakers like the impedance curve, sensitivity, power handling capability, frequency response, etc. Since the amp and speakers are essentially "cooperating" with each other. The question is, "Do they mate well?".

                      -JBreezy-

                      Comment

                      • Hoopofficial
                        Member
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 44

                        #12
                        Honestly, I believe a HT application is a totally different animal. There is so much noise in a 5.1 / 6.1 mix that I believe the cost of upgrading to a true Hi-End amp is, well quite frankly, overkill. I find that it all sounds good. Noise is noise. Will it make a difference, the specs says so. Can you hear the difference, maybe. Is it worth it, unlikely. Now, if you are using your HT system for some critical listening for 2 channel then that is another question all together. In my case, I needed a multichannel amplifier for the the times I needed surround but I wanted excellent quality for 2 channel applications. I went with a Rotel RMB 1095 because of the current needs of my B&W 803n. I find that combination pleasing in surround and two channel. Is there better stuff out there....you bet there is. Is it worth the significant increase in cost....NO WAY.

                        IMHO you should invest in the pre-amp and source components (Blu-
                        Ray, CD, etc.) if you already have a quality Amp.

                        Comment

                        • BassThatHz
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2006
                          • 153

                          #13
                          I've purchased 10 amplifers (from 6 brands) in my lifetime, and none of them sound the same (they are ALL different), more importantly an improvement with each step up.

                          Is a neckless with 98.999% Gold, less attractive than one with 99.999%?
                          Can you even tell the difference, and does that matter?

                          Even if you can't tell the difference... better is better.

                          When level matched a better amp will actually sound quieter, because it doesn't have noise & distortion mixed in.

                          Quality is Quality, it has has nothing to do with brand-name, price, usability or how ugly it looks.

                          That's not saying that some brands aren't better than others, or that some don't make total junk, or are expensive marketing rip-offs (comparatively).

                          Within a singular brand-name, it would be a fairly safe assumption to assume that more expensive = better though. It is when you start comparing brands that the choice becomes harder, that is when expensive does not always = better.

                          Don't compare based on name and price, compare only by real-world performance; nothing else matters.

                          A system is only as good as its weakest component (Electronics, Speakers, Room) junk in/junk out.


                          --Yes more natual, effortless, less fatiguting, bigger soundstage etc--
                          Just remember though... a better amp is more annoying because it reveals more, as there is less noise for the flaws to hide/mask in. That is the reality-killer of it all.

                          Originally posted by WelshOne
                          Is there really a point where more power becomes unneccesary?
                          Yes but I still like to roll up to McDonalds every now and then with my commando-nuclear-battle-tank.
                          My Mc-fries be missin' ketchup for the very last time!!! :rofl:

                          Comment

                          • hurin
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 118

                            #14
                            I upgraded from driving my three way fronts with a 1075 to a 1080. Tweeter and midrange no real difference, woofer big improvement.

                            Beware diminishing returns. There is a big difference between a 1000$ amp and a 2000$, but there may not be an audible difference between a 10000$ and a 20000$.

                            Comment

                            • Mark_C.
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 386

                              #15
                              Doubt you'd be able to tell any difference between amps. You'd probably have a much more satisfying result changing out speakers.

                              Comment

                              • WelshOne
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 117

                                #16
                                Im going to try biamping my speakers with two 1572's, as opposed to powering them in stereo from just the 1575. Curious to see what difference that makes for my 2ch listening? 8O

                                Cheers

                                Comment

                                • srb
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Oct 2004
                                  • 311

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by WelshOne
                                  Im going to try biamping my speakers with two 1572's, as opposed to powering them in stereo from just the 1575. Curious to see what difference that makes for my 2ch listening?
                                  Let us know your results, but I've personally heard negligible differences from passive bi-amping.

                                  Steve

                                  Comment

                                  • specialized
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Apr 2008
                                    • 332

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by srb
                                    Let us know your results, but I've personally heard negligible differences from passive bi-amping.

                                    Steve

                                    I have the same feeling.. But.. Check my post in B&W Speakers:




                                    Darko

                                    Comment

                                    • srb
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Oct 2004
                                      • 311

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by specialized
                                      I have the same feeling.. But.. Check my post in B&W Speakers:

                                      Darko
                                      Thank you. I did just now read that thread. I should probably clarify my blanket statement to include these two thoughts.

                                      1. I should have said that I didn't get the improvement bi-amping compared to using a larger amplifier. Case in point: The Rotel RB-1080 sounded better in one application than bi-amping with two RB-1070s. The RB-1080 was also cheaper than two RB-1070s.

                                      2. I have only ever had 2-way speakers. In a normal 2-way speaker with a crossover point around 2KHz + or -, the majority of the power is used by the woofer, and perhaps 10% of the power is used for the tweeter in a single amp configuration. When bi-amping versus single amping, the power difference available to the woofer may be 100% versus 90%.

                                      For a 3-way speaker, the numbers change appreciably, as the crossover point is much lower and the midrange/tweeter section can take greater advantage of the additional power available in the bi-amp's second channel.

                                      Steve

                                      Comment

                                      • gp4Jesus
                                        Member
                                        • Jan 2010
                                        • 60

                                        #20
                                        Many said "it", in as many ways, what I say. I agree strongly w/the damping/distortion agrument for separates. Further the effortless quality that LOTS of power can provide!

                                        I'll add my $.02 worth to the "sound integrity" agurment.
                                        I'm using Hafler XL-280s* for all channels except the subs**. Even fans from another forum said sub bass is not the 280s strong point compared to some of the "welding class" amps available.
                                        * lightly tweeked, EXO'd, driving LCR Polk RTI A series speakers
                                        ** 2 Belles Series 1s; RSP 1068 doing the filtering

                                        have fun I do!
                                        Samsung 60" LED
                                        Outlaw Audio 976
                                        Samsung BDP, Dish Network

                                        BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
                                        Canare 14 ga - LCR inside; CC outside
                                        LR: RTi A7 Triamped
                                        M & T: Rotel RB-981
                                        Bass: Rotel RB-980BX ->8ga in & out

                                        CC: Rotel RB981 -> CSi A6 Bi-amped
                                        SW: LFE - Sunfire; Audio Pro Evidence @ each corner
                                        Surrounds: Rotel RB981 -> RTi A3
                                        Power Conditioning & Distribution: APC H15, 4 Furman Miniport 20s; 3 dedicated 20A feeds

                                        Comment

                                        • DL86
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Sep 2005
                                          • 271

                                          #21
                                          I tested my rb-1090 against a behringer ep4000 pro amplifier costing around 1/6th of the price and couldn't tell them apart on my paradigm studio 100v3 speakers. Both have similar power output.

                                          As for passive and active biamping:



                                          Comment

                                          • gp4Jesus
                                            Member
                                            • Jan 2010
                                            • 60

                                            #22
                                            Hey DL:

                                            Thanks for these links.

                                            I forgot about Rod Elliot. Lot of great info; he has a huge fan base. I will point people to them.

                                            cheers tony
                                            Samsung 60" LED
                                            Outlaw Audio 976
                                            Samsung BDP, Dish Network

                                            BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
                                            Canare 14 ga - LCR inside; CC outside
                                            LR: RTi A7 Triamped
                                            M & T: Rotel RB-981
                                            Bass: Rotel RB-980BX ->8ga in & out

                                            CC: Rotel RB981 -> CSi A6 Bi-amped
                                            SW: LFE - Sunfire; Audio Pro Evidence @ each corner
                                            Surrounds: Rotel RB981 -> RTi A3
                                            Power Conditioning & Distribution: APC H15, 4 Furman Miniport 20s; 3 dedicated 20A feeds

                                            Comment

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