Bi-Amping help

[tpirovol]

Hi Everyone,

I recently purchased the RSX-1560 and finally received my bi-amping cables. I hooked them up but just wondering how I can tell that they are working for HF and LF?

Does the HF control only the tweeter where the LF only controll's the Mid/woofers? I am bi-amping a pair for 683's

Thanks in advance
Terry

[Kal Rubinson]

Well, I hope you have removed the jumpers between HF and LF on the speaker terminals. If so and there's sound coming from all the drivers, they are working for both HF and LF.

Kal

[tpirovol]

but specifically would the LF power only the woofer and the HF power the tweeter only?

Thanks Terry

[Kal Rubinson]

That is the whole point of bi-amping. Isn't that what you were trying to achieve?

Or were you really attempting to bi-wire?

Kal

[tpirovol]

no that is what I am attempting to achieve with bi-amping but just wanted to confirm what speakers would be driven with LF and HF in regards specifically the the 683's

Thanks Terry

[jalyra]

AFAIK there are not any special cables for bi-amping, only for bi-wiring. For biamping you just need an additional pair going from the amp or receiver to the speakers, but be sure your speakers allow for this, and remove any jumpers in the speakers.

[tpirovol]

can someone tell me if the 683's support bi-amping?

Thanks Terry

[Kal Rubinson]

Can you not just look at the speakers?

I am trying to find out what you want and if you understand what you are doing. Biamping requires separate amplifiers for each part of the spectrum (HF and LF) and separate terminals for each on the speakers. Now, I could look that up for you but you can look at the back of the speakers and it.

Kal

[Legairre]

683's do support bi-amping, but As Kal Mentioned you need to use one amp channel for the highs(HF) and one for the lows(LF). Here's a link to the 683 manual.

http://bwmedia.keycast.com/download/Libraries/3/683684Manual_l8_w0_h0.pdf?dm=0

The 683 manual ONLY shows "bi-wiring". Here's a pic of bi-amping. Notice that one amp channel is powering the HF while another channel is powering the LF on each speaker. The pic shows two, 2-channels amps, but all the channels can be from a single amp. The key is that you must use 2-channels to power one speaker and 2-channels to power the other speaker, so you'll need 4 available channels to bi-amp a pair of speakers.

Make sure you remove the jumper.

[sleddogg]

And for further clarification, can anyone specify which set of terminals on the 683 power the LF and which power the HF? Common sense would lead to the lower set = LF, upper = HF but I have not confirmed this, anyone who has it may be helpful to original poster.

[Legairre]

From the pics in the manual the upper set is HF and the lower set is LF.

[tpirovol]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to ensure the 683's could be bi-amped becuase as legairre pointed out the manual only say's bi-wire. I am using the RSX-1560 and converted the CB to front BI-amps. I am then using chord silverscreen bi-wires and using the purple/green for HF and black/red for the LF. I have also remove the bridge betweent he speakers and on the amp the purple/green is going to the front normal and the black/red is going to the CB converted to fronts.

Does that back sense?

Thanks Terry

[jalyra]

I just look at a picture of your cable at
http://www.hificablesandaccessories....S_BI-WIRE.html

That's indeed a cable for biwire and not useful for biamping, as I said in my previous post, for biamping you'll need just an additional pair of a regular speaker cable.

Hope this helps.

[tpirovol]

Hi,

I purchased those cables but instead of 2-4 I got 4-4. I thought bi-wire cables can also be used for bi-amping? Is this not true? I got the 2-4 for bi-wiring my centre but am using 4-4 for bi-amping purple/green for HF and black/red for LF.

Thanks Terry

[jalyra]

Then if it's 4-4 it should work fine for biamping. You can not do it with a 2-4, because you'll need the additional pair for the extra amps.

[tpirovol]

Just want to confirm that you can use bi-wire cables 2-4 for biamping if you do 4-4?

Thanks Terry

[BWLover]

If you are using 4-4 cable you bi amping. You should have 4 terminals on the amp being used and 4 on the speaker (for left) and the same for right. On the 683's the bottem terminals power the subs and the top power the mid and tweet. If was curious also and unpluged the bottem cables and the mid and tweet were still on

[Nuthed]

tpirovol, if you don't know the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping don't do either.

[tpirovol]

I understand the difference between bi-amp and bi-wire my question was more to what the HF and LF control in the speakers. My only remain question is are biwire cables used for biamping or do you need to use seperate cables. Bottom line is there special biamping cables or is it just the way biwire cables are terminated?

Thanks Terry

[Kal Rubinson]

I understand the difference between bi-amp and bi-wire my question was more to what the HF and LF control in the speakers. My only remain question is are biwire cables used for biamping or do you need to use seperate cables. Bottom line is there special biamping cables or is it just the way biwire cables are terminated?

Thanks Terry

If it is true that you understand the difference between bi-amp and bi-wire, then you should know the answer to your own question. Bottom line is that you shouldn't bother.

Kal

[Legairre]

I understand the difference between bi-amp and bi-wire my question was more to what the HF and LF control in the speakers. My only remain question is are biwire cables used for biamping or do you need to use seperate cables. Bottom line is there special biamping cables or is it just the way biwire cables are terminated?

Thanks Terry

Terry, The 4-4 cable you purchased is not really a bi-wiring cable. It's pretty much four separate cables wrapped in a jacket to keep them all together. You have four wires on one end and four wires on the other end.

A bi-wire cable would have the 2-4 configuration so that the two positive cables are wrapped together at one end to make a single connection to the amps positive binding post and the two negative cables wrapped together at one end to make a single connection to the amps negative binding post. Think of it like taking the two positive cables and at one end you twist them together to form one cable and then slide on a banana plug. Then do the same with the two negative cables. Then you have two connections on one end(one pos, one neg) and four connections on the other end(two pos, two neg).

Sorry for the rant ops: With that said, no a bi-wire cable cannot be used for bi-amping.

You don't need to buy special cables for bi-wring or bi-amping. Just buy two pairs of cables for bi-amping and if bi-wiring use the same two pairs of cables used for bi-amping and twist the ends together on one end as I described above.

I think what the guys are saying is, if you don't understand how the cables are physically packaged inside the jacket they are wrapped in, then you shouldn't be doing this. Understanding the cabling is a basic necessity.

Take a look at these pics of bi-wiring and bi-amping. The left is bi-wiring and the right is bi-amping.

[Nuthed]

I understand the difference between bi-amp and bi-wire my question was more to what the HF and LF control in the speakers. My only remain question is are biwire cables used for biamping or do you need to use seperate cables. Bottom line is there special biamping cables or is it just the way biwire cables are terminated?

Thanks Terry

Sorry, but your question is definitive proof that you do not, in fact know the difference between bi-amping and bi-wiring.

You don't need anything special to bi-amp. Just 2 amps OR a receiver capable of redirecting the surround back channels and 2 sets of speaker cables. No special cables needed.

To bi-wire you can get some special cables with on set of terminations on one end for the amp side and 2 sets of terminations on the other for the speaker side, or as Legairre said, twist 1 end of 2 sets of cables together. The other way is if you have an amp with 2 sets of outputs to facilitate bi-wiring, in this case you would just use 2 sets of speaker cables.

[tpirovol]

Hi Everyone,

For the people that responded with helpful information thank you. For the people that responded with because you don’t understand dont bother, hope you don’t tell that to your children.

I understand very well the difference I was just checking to what I was planning on doing is correct. I currently have my center channel using Chord silverscreen BI-WIRED (2-4) to my Rotel 1560. I understand that some say there is no difference and some say that by running separate cables to the HF and LF that it offers a much more open sound and more punch to the LF. I have also BI_AMPED my front speakers with chord carnival silver screen terminated 4-4 and set my rotel Center rears to Front bi-amping. My question is since I have purchased the Chord Carnival Silverscreen 4wire B-Wire and had them configured for biamping sonically is there a difference between two separate cables and one cables with 2 pairs within the cable? I notice that a lot of cables say that they can be bi-wired(2-4) and bi-amped(4-4) my question is can a biwire cable be used for bimaping if they are terminated 4-4. I understand you can run two cables but instead of having two cables to each speaker to make it nice and neat I just wanted one cable.

I have researched this and many people say to use canare 4s11 and there are numerous other brands that use bi-wire and bi-amping cables the same way my question is what is the physical difference if any besides the terminations to bi-wire and bi-amp cables?

Thanks Terry

[Legairre]

If I understand you correctly you are really wondering if there is something in the cable itself that would stop the 4-4 from being used in bi-amping. first off the 4-4 can't be used to bi-wire. I know they market it as a bi-wiring cable, but it's not. A bi-wring cable would be 2-4. If anything they should market the 4-4 as a bi-amping cable.

With that said there isn't anything about the 4-4 that will either enhance or degrade bi-amping. If I understand you, it sounds like you are under the impression that using a special cable for bi-amping or bi-wiring will give you better results than plain old speaker wire?

[jalyra]

When people is bi-amping and they want a different effect for HF vs LF, they usually go with different amps, instead of different cables. For example, some of the first digital amps were pretty good at LF, but not at HF, so people had a digital amp for LF and a class A/B amp for the HF, others have a mix of SS and tubes. I think this is called vertical biamping (or was it horizontal)?

Anyway for the specific receiver and cables you are mentioning I think people who said "don't bother" is actually right. Probably it could help if you rephrase your question like: "Are people who is biamping using the same cables for HF and LF? I have this cable that claims to be a biwire 4-4 terminated, is this cable any good?" or something similar.

[Nuthed]

Hi Everyone,

For the people that responded with helpful information thank you. For the people that responded with because you don’t understand dont bother, hope you don’t tell that to your children.

I understand very well the difference I was just checking to what I was planning on doing is correct. I currently have my center channel using Chord silverscreen BI-WIRED (2-4) to my Rotel 1560. I understand that some say there is no difference and some say that by running separate cables to the HF and LF that it offers a much more open sound and more punch to the LF. I have also BI_AMPED my front speakers with chord carnival silver screen terminated 4-4 and set my rotel Center rears to Front bi-amping. My question is since I have purchased the Chord Carnival Silverscreen 4wire B-Wire and had them configured for biamping sonically is there a difference between two separate cables and one cables with 2 pairs within the cable? I notice that a lot of cables say that they can be bi-wired(2-4) and bi-amped(4-4) my question is can a biwire cable be used for bimaping if they are terminated 4-4. I understand you can run two cables but instead of having two cables to each speaker to make it nice and neat I just wanted one cable.

I have researched this and many people say to use canare 4s11 and there are numerous other brands that use bi-wire and bi-amping cables the same way my question is what is the physical difference if any besides the terminations to bi-wire and bi-amp cables?

Thanks Terry

I and others have told you what is what and you still refuse to accept it. I mean, if you don't believe Kal Rubinson, a writer for Stereophile, I don't know what to tell you. Good luck, I hope you don't fry your receiver with all your messing around.

BTW, yes I would tell my child to stop what he was doing if he didn't know what he was doing and refused advice.

[tpirovol]

Hi Nuthed,

You have been very negative from the beginning of your posts.

In the end bottom line even if I was def if my receiver could do bi-amping and my speakers could do bi-amping then why would I not spend a small portion of my overall total amount of money on cables that would allow for bi-amping and bi-amp my system. I don’t have a second room so I don’t need to use the second zone channels. If it makes no difference then no worries I wasted some money but its not your money dick.

I received an official answer since there was not one here Bi-wire cables if terminated 4-4 can be used for bi-amping and this was from two cable manufacturers.

Simple answer to my question thanks to some on this forum and to the cable manufacturers.

Here is a useful post
1) How can you tell if bi-amping is working properly? Un-plug the HF and see if you here only high's. Then unplug the LF and see if you here the lows.
2) In the case of the 683's HF control’s the mid and tweeter and LF the woofers.
3) Can Bi-wire cables be used for Bi-amping? YES
4) How are bi-wire cables wired out? 2-4
5) How are bi-amping cables wired out? 4-4
6) Is there a sonic difference between bi-wiring and regular wiring? To me yes but it depends on the system and your own opinion
7) Is there a sonic difference between bi-amping and regular wiring? To me very much so yes but it depends on the system and your own opinion

Have a great day everyone and thanks for the useful responses to this thread
Terry

[Kal Rubinson]

Here is a useful post
1) How can you tell if bi-amping is working properly? Un-plug the HF and see if you here only high's. Then unplug the LF and see if you here the lows.

Wrong. It is the other way around.

2) In the case of the 683's HF control’s the mid and tweeter and LF the woofers.
3) Can Bi-wire cables be used for Bi-amping? YES

Nope. 2-4 won't do.

Etc.

Kal

[Kevin D]

And with the name calling and rude jokes (which have been edited out) this thread has ran it's course.

Bottom line, you need four individual leads on both ends to bi-amp. 2-4 bi-wire cables have two sets of ends on one side preconnected together so you don't have to on the amp.

Can you use a 2-4 wire for bi-amping? Yes, if you cut the preconnected ends off and re-strip the wires.

Kevin D.