Rotel Rsp1570 Having More Issues!

[Anovak]

One of the ways in which I have enjoyed listening to my DVD Concerts is no longer available to me thanks to the "unwillingness" of this RSP1570 to perform as I wish it to rather than the way it "wishes" to.

Previously, with my Denon 3803, I was able to watch a concert having selected the dts soundtrack with my Denon dvd2200 player and then chosen the 5CH Stereo setting on my 3803. What this did was to send the front left and right signals of the dts soundtrack, where most of the information of significance was located, to the processor which then split it into the five channels as well as provided the LFE info to the subwoofer.....Now, with the RSP1570, whenever a dts signal comes in, the processor refuses to do anything but process it into 5.1dts.

I think, at times, my sense of what should go where in the music, as far as my listening preferences are concerned, is very different than that of the original dts engineer/mixer (e.g. Eagles "Hell Freezes Over," where Elliot Scheiner mixed the bass into the center channel??!!??) and would very much like to have the flexibility of choosing what works for me. This is not possible with the RSP1570, at least I haven't been able to figure out a way to do it.

So, what's the big deal, right? Well, the big deal is that the dts signal is often in my experience quite a bit "hotter," for lack of a better way to describe it, than the 2 ch. PCM track IF one is provided. This allows me to split off the LF and RF parts of the signal and put those into the fronts, rears, and a combined signal in the center speaker. The result can be very pleasing on many of my concerts with dts soundtracks and I am, again, deeply disappointed and frustrated that this will no longer be possible.....

[Nolan B]

you denon didnt process DTS 5.1 into 5 channel stereo either. Its not Rotel's fault. A DTS signal is a proprietary signal and is not able to be processed in any other way then through DTS standards i.e. you can play DTS NEO 6, but not regular 5 channel stereo. The only way you could process DTS into 5 channel stereo is if DTS came out with there own 5 channel stereo processing.

What you may be able to do is have the player decode and output the signal as PCM which your processor MIGHT be able to process into 5 channel stereo.

On a side note..I think what you are trying to do is strange if the DTS source is 5.1. I can understand if you are a 2 channel signal and want to process it into 5 channel, but processing the L and R channel of a 5 channel track into the rear channels is very odd.

[mjb]

I've never seen a 1570, but if it works anything like its predecessors, then the way to achieve your desired effect is to visit its speaker (or equiv.) menu, and tell it you've only got a left and a right channel. Then 5.1 DTS will magically only come out of the left and the right speakers.

Otherwise, your post seems a bit sensationalist - its a new product, and its bound to have a few issues, non of which are probably due to an "unwillingness" on any ones part to let you listen the way you want to.

[Anovak]

Nothing sensationalist intended, and the context would more approach a description of what and how the design of the equipment presents in terms of limitations, seeming to have a "mind of it's own" rather than being amenable to being told what to do by the user. Sorry if that came across in a sensational manner.

Further, in response to the side-note, while it may seem odd to some the left and right signals from a dts encoded concert are normally the ones that contain the most information, and in my opinion, recorded in a manner that also present the best audio quality. Therefore, having stumbled upon it really by accident, processing those into a 5 ch. stereo mode really makes for a fantastic surround experience! My old Denon DOES achieve this, and I am not sure of the specific technological manner that it does so, but it does. I have a concert that contains only a dts soundtrack and my dvd player sends it from the optical digital output to the optical digital input to the 3803. I tested this by removing all other connections aside from the optical one. My 3803 receiver shows that this is the signal (dts) being received and when I then hit the 5CH STEREO button the way it is distributed immediately changes. There is a huge difference. The center channel, rather than containing only the voice and some incidentals, is now full and rich with the other instruments and the sound quality is excellent. Many of my other concerts contain an LPCM 2CH soundtrack, and processing this into 5 CH. Stereo is much the same. You might try this sometime, provided you aren't using a Rotel pre/pro, and see how you like it.

Also, Mike, I don't really agree about this being a new product and that we should expect it to have some problems. The reason I feel this way is that it is based pretty much on the 1069 with the addition of HDMI 1.3. For this kind of money, I guess I just expected a bit more, that's all. Besides, the 1069 seems to have had similar issues regarding the lag time problem I described in my first post and Rotel knew about them. Their comment to me was that "we just thought there was nothing that could be done about it...."

Thank you for your considerate comments.

[JRachwalski]

If that is really what you want....just send the 2ch track to the processor and have the processor output to 5ch multi. That is all you were doing in the first place.
Keep in mind this is NOT the way the producer intended things to sound.
But if that is what makes you happy....

[Kevin D]

Right, also keep in mind you are wanting to send a signal with stuff missing (DTS is a lossy compression) only to break it back into 5ch simulated surround. You would want the uncompressed 2ch PCM track to get the best fidelity.

You are going to find that the Rotel is not going to do everything the same as the Denon. It's a simplistic design that gives you better audio without the bells and whistles options.

Kevin D.

[Anovak]

Points well-taken, but I would add a few observations.....

I have found that in my concert library of 300+ titles there is no real basis for distinguishing what sounds good other than my ears. In other words, sometimes the uncompressed, LPCM track that should contain the best possible signal based strictly on technology sounds horribly because of how it was recorded and there's not much that can be done about that.....it all starts with the engineers, mixers, producers etc. that capture the sound at the live event, which is a daunting task indeed.

Then, as far as I can understand, the engineers put together a surround track and mix it into the 5.1 channels we hear when we select that in either dd5.1 or dts5.1. It is here that the decisions are made as to what goes where in the mix and where I have found that the most salient stuff goes into the left and right front channels. When I have taken that info and split it into front and rear, left and right, and a mono signal of both to the center, I have often (although not always) been very, very pleased with the results. So, while I totally agree with your comments about what should sound best, it has not always been the case that it has. Do you lose info using this method, no doubt. I have just found that I can get some really pleasing results doing it this way with some, if not most, of my efforts.

I read an interesting interview with Bob Carver a few years ago that speaks directly to this issue. If I remember correctly, he in fact indicated that with all the advancements in techology as far as surround sound was concerned, his favorite way to listen to concerts was in the manner I have described.....5 CH. Stereo. I suppose what it comes down to is if you like the mix in dts and what is being sent to the various channels, fine. If you want to rely a bit less on the imagination of the mixers/producers and just decide how you'd prefer to experience the concert in surround sound, experiment with the method described here.

You're also right that the Rotel does things very differently than the Denon, which is not entirely a bad thing because I have noticed the very, very nice sound quality.....to my ears, a silky smooth sound more related to analog than the Denon I have was able to produce. So, compliments on that score! I have also found that by playing around with it and learning the "map" of how to get it to do what I want, I have been able to achieve most of what I'm after. Still not happy with the 500ms delay, but they tell me they are working on that issue and I am hopeful they will be able to do some things with firmware to correct it.

I'd love to hear from others about this to increase my awareness and perhaps learn some things about how innovative listeners "do their thing!" Thanks again.

[beaverlake]

dts and 5 channel stereo

I've used 5 channel stereo on my B&K on many occassions and like you, I also like the sound on some CDs and DVD concerts. I agree with the two previous posters - simply select 2 channel PCM when the DVD prompt is displayed and select 5 channel stereo on the Rotel for the output. Your Rotel will have more bits to process and your sound quality should be as good or better than if you were able to duplicate the Denon behavior.

Good luck!

gordon

[Anovak]

Thank you Gordon! I am quite acquainted with what you and others have suggested and routinely use the 2 ch. PCM track. I have found, however, that experimentation with other, less conventional approaches sometimes provides very appealing albeit unexpected, results. I am still wondering if others on this forum have played around with the dts track in the manner that I describe and what their findings are.

Bottom line is that I really appreciate the very beautiful sound this Rotel processor emits while experiencing some disappointment that it is not a bit more versatile.....sort of like having a sportscar with automatic transmission.....where I would personally like to decide when to shift. Thank you all for your comments and Happy New Year!

[bigburner]

Hi Anovak,

Like you I have a fairly substantial music DVD collection, and I like to experiment with the audio tracks on each DVD.

I have a 2-channel hi-fi system and 9 times out of 10 the 2-channel PCM track on the DVD sounds best, and 1 time out of 10 the DD 5.1 track sounds best. The 2-channel PCM track just seems to have superior detail and dynamic range.

In situations where the DD 5.1 track sounds best the usual reason is that the vocals are better balanced in the mix.

I cannot think of a single DVD out of 250 titles where the DTS track sounds best. Strange isn't it? On my system the DTS track just seems to have the least detail and dynamic range.

Nigel.