Rotel v/s Integra v/s Pioneer elite

[ray5]

HI! New on this forum. I looking to upgrade my HT. Probably going to go to B&W 700 series. These are what I have narrowed down to:

Rotel 1560
Integra 8.9 or
Pioneer Elite SC-05

Any suggestions? Obviously the Rotel is the most expensive but want to be sure that the speakers and the receiver matches.
Thanks.

[artv4]

rotel 1560

[ray5]

Why?

[Kevin D]

Why?

Because you asked in a Rotel forum.. Just kidding.

Are you a bells & whistles person or a better sound quality person? In general you will get a lot better sound from a Rotel unit versus a mass marketed brand. You will however loose things like iPOD, XM, Sirius, network music, auto-EQ, etc..

I can't say everyone has heard the improvement going from a mass receiver to Rotel, but I can say it's over 99% that have. All those extra features add cost (mostly in licensing fees). This results is cheaper products being used for the audio side.

If you're mostly concerned with audio and that they match, I think it says a lot that the B&W group distributes, markets, and sets up dealers for both B&W and Rotel because they feel they compliment each other (with Classe being the next step up in electronics).

Kevin D.

[dmcgowan]

<Flame suit on>

I would go listen and dig about the Audyssey capabilities before buying the Rotel. I don't think the Rotel has Audyssey but the Integra should (my model is last year's and it has it)

I have the older version of an Integra (can't recall exact model) running as a very complex way to get multichannel HD sound ex my PS3 and into my RSP-1098. I have set up the 1098 with speaker distances and using SPL meter before adding in the PS3 via Integra to get DTSMA etc. Anyway, Audyssey improved over the straight multi-channel feed. I would have big reservations about buying a new AV Pre-pro or Receiver that did not have Audyssey.....

Anyway, you did ask in a Rotel forum...but let your ears be the judge

[hifiguymi]

I agree with dmcgowan that you need to listen to them before you decide. With that said, I don't put much faith in Audyssey. I have yet to hear a system in which Audyssey makes much of an improvement. I know there are a lot of people that like it, but for the most part, I don't. It always seems to suck the life out of the system when I listen to music with it on. Also, I've done quite a few systems in which I've verified the channel levels that Audyssey set against those from an Avia disc and the Audyssey is always off.

I will admit that Audyssey does a good job at taking the chasteness out of a center channel that is placed in a cabinet. That is the only thing I think it does well. Some people on this forum say it's because it isn't set up right, but the point is you place the microphone in the various spots in the room and let it do it's thing. If it gets more complex than that, what is the point? Move your speakers, treat your room, and get a better sounding receiver if it has to get more involved.

I wouldn't focus your purchasing in whether or not something has Audyssey or MCACC. Listen, look at features that are important to you, and trust yourself to pick the right one.

Eric

[Legairre]

Having Rotel amps I wanted a Rotel pre-amp, so I had an RSP-1066 . I know this is blasphemy, but I went from a Rotel RSP-1066 pre-amp to a $1200 Pioneer VSX-92TXH receiver as a pre amp. The Pioneer has room EQ software called MCACC and it is a huge improvement over the RSP-1066 which doesn't have room EQ sotware. If I turn off the room EQ on the Pioneer the RSP-1066 puts it to shame, but with the room EQ engaged the Pioneer wins hands down. The EQ software in a modern receiver makes a big difference.


While I wouldn't base my buying on whether something had the EQ or not, I would listen and see if it makes a difference and if you like the difference. Depending on the room the EQ might help or not, for my room it did.

[ray5]

I don't consider myself an audiophile but do enjoy a good movie and music. My consideration is that since I am upgrading I should learn and take advantage of experienced people like you. In the showrooms there are so many options and not many have the capability of switching receivers but keep the speakers the same so that one can truly compare. They will switch the receiver but also the speakers! So how can you compare. That's why I narrowed down to the high end ones that have the maximum popularity and solid reputation. If I were blinded and two receivers played can I pick out one from the other? Probably not. But do appreciate this forum's input. Rotel has legendary reputation and so does Integra but these days all the dealers seem to be pushing Pioneer Elite a lot. And that has all the bells and whistles. How much do I care? Can't say I don't at all. That's why want to hear from you guys. Thanks.

[Kal Rubinson]

I agree with dmcgowan that you need to listen to them before you decide. With that said, I don't put much faith in Audyssey. I have yet to hear a system in which Audyssey makes much of an improvement. I know there are a lot of people that like it, but for the most part, I don't. It always seems to suck the life out of the system when I listen to music with it on. Also, I've done quite a few systems in which I've verified the channel levels that Audyssey set against those from an Avia disc and the Audyssey is always off.

I am not starting a debate about the value of Audyssey and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I have to ask: How did you measure the levels from the Avia disc? Since they are noise bursts, the frequency response of the speakers and that of the mic will influence the measurement.

Kal

[JMDooley]

I don't go for flashy bells and whistles. I want my equipment to look and sound great together. I have listened to Integra, Pioneer Elite, Sony ES, McIntosh and Rotel. Of these ones only Rotel and McIntosh impressed me the most with their sound and ability to talk to each other. I agree that the Rotel might not seem to have all the fancy items the the Elite or Integra have but the sound knocks them out of my list of ones to buy and only after you have lived with the Rotels do you begin to find out just how much technology was designed into the equipment.
FWIW: I am very happy with my Rotel System and would not trade it for anything else.

[Charlieu]

I think you would be happier with a receiver that offers some sort of room correction. If for any reason you can't totally rearrange furniture, place speakers exactly where they need to go and hang chunks of insulation on your walls and ceiling, you will more than likely have a better sounding system if you purchase one with Audessey, MCACC, YPAO or something similar. Your room and speakers are the biggest factors in determining what you hear. Room correction can help if your room isn't perfectly set up. (Money can help if your speakers aren't up to par.)

Personally, I use Audessey when I watch movies. My room is set up as good as I could get it, but I still had problems with my subwoofer and Audessey minimized them. (Rebuilding my house to have a flat response down to 20Hz was not in my budget) When I listen to music, I turn off Audessey and the subwoofer. Electronic room correction should be your last resort towards achieving good sound, but in most cases, it's the only option people have.

[Kal Rubinson]

Personally, I use Audessey when I watch movies. My room is set up as good as I could get it, but I still had problems with my subwoofer and Audessey minimized them. (Rebuilding my house to have a flat response down to 20Hz was not in my budget) When I listen to music, I turn off Audessey and the subwoofer.

I don't get it: Why?

Kal

[Legairre]

It all really depends on the room. So many times we buy equipment when the room is the single biggest thing in determining what we hear. My sub had some nasty boomy peaks at 40 and 22 hz. Buying a sub EQ allowed me to get a flat response down to 13Hz with my Hsu VTF-3 HO w/turbo. Then the MCACC allowed me to get rid of the boomy peaks at 40hz from my mains as well. I'm not about to go and hang rugs on the walls or install all kinds of bass traps(the look of the theater matters too) so the sub EQ and Pioneer MCACC software allowed me to hear my speakers and not the room.

My room is designed to be a theater so there aren't a lot of options for moving seats and speakers. Everything has to stay where it if.

As for bells and whistles the Pionneer Elites don't have bells and whistles anymore than a Rotel does. I don't consider room EQ a gimmicky feature like those funcky DSP modes, but other than the DSP modes that Rotel has too the features on the Elites aren't really any diffrent than the Rotels.

Unless you use a receiver as a pre amp like a lot of us do, the amps in the Rotel will be superior to the amps in a Pioneer, Integra or Yamaha. I'd pick Rotel power over Pioneer, Integra or Yamaha's any day of the week.

[Charlieu]

I don't get it: Why?

Kal

It may be because my receiver is just using Multi EQ, but I don't notice much, if any difference with or without Audessey when listening to music. I don't feel the need to bring my sub into play and it's a solo experience with me in the sweet spot.

For movies, the sub is active to support LFE and the various crossovers I put on my speakers. I often have guests and I want them to have a good experience no matter what seat they have.

To bring this back to Rotel, I am still considering their new prepro, but I will need to do the audition in my own home. I imagine the addition of the Velodine SMS-1 or the SVS Audessey device (if ever released) would be needed along with it.

[Nuthed]

I went from a Rotel RSX-972, used as a processor feeding 2 RB980BX's, to an Integra DTR 6.8 then upgraded that to an Integra 7.8. I only got rid of the 972 to hear lossless audio from my PS3. I used the bi-amp function on both Integras. Inially the 6.8 didn't do my Paradigm Studio 100s justice thats why I went with the 7.8. For movies the Integra is great but it is maybe slightly less revealing with music.

When I had the Rotel and used optical from the PS3 I never did anything other than set speaker distance and level. After I went with the 1st Integra I did the auto set up and then verified levels with the trusty RS meter. They were spot on. SQ was fine. After a while of doing some reading at AVS I decided to give the Audyssey a try. SQ improved much to my amazement. When I got the 7.8 I did the Audyssey thing right from the get go. It has all the features you could want and drives the Paradigms good. I was able to replace 3 components with 1.

Funny thing is that I only own 7 or so BluRays and almost never rent them, so the Rotels would have sufficed just fine. I got caught up in the BluRay/lossless audio frenzy. Don't get me wrong I love having the ability to hear it, it's just that I rarely do. At the time I was receiver shopping the Rotel RSX-1058 was 2 grand. :E The Integra was, after some research, my best option.

hifiguy: If you sold any products that used Audyssey your opinion would change.

[hifiguymi]

hifiguy: If you sold any products that used Audyssey your opinion would change.

I sell Denon so I deal with Audyssey all of the time and I don't like it. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people but I don't like it.

Eric

[hifiguymi]

I am not starting a debate about the value of Audyssey and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I have to ask: How did you measure the levels from the Avia disc? Since they are noise bursts, the frequency response of the speakers and that of the mic will influence the measurement.

Kal

I'm not sure what you mean by noise bursts. It has pink noise for each channel just like the internal generators in receivers and processors (for 5.1 channels anyway). I used that and an SPL meter. I always use the SPL meter to check what Audyssey did before I use the Avia disc. A large majority of the time it's wrong. I know you are a fan of Audyssey but I'm not.

Eric

[gd]

If for any reason you can't totally rearrange furniture, place speakers exactly where they need to go and hang chunks of insulation on your walls and ceiling, you will more than likely have a better sounding system if you purchase one with Audessey, MCACC, YPAO or something similar.

Translation: the wife won't allow you to muck up her home with audio paraphernalia.

That's the real reason Audyssey or other EQ exists, so that components can be marketed as desirable home accessories, as well as enthusiasts' toys.

But room treatments always work better than adding another lump of circuitry into the chain... if SQ really is the prime objective.

Not practical for everyone, of course... just sayin'.

[dmcgowan]

LOL it's funny how in this totally subjective hobby we share, people have very strong and apparently objective opinions.

To the OP, if you can try out a few and trust your ears.

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm not sure what you mean by noise bursts. It has pink noise for each channel just like the internal generators in receivers and processors (for 5.1 channels anyway). I used that and an SPL meter. I always use the SPL meter to check what Audyssey did before I use the Avia disc. A large majority of the time it's wrong. I know you are a fan of Audyssey but I'm not.
Eric

My point is that the wideband pink noise used by Avia or the internal generators is measured by the SLM. What it will measure can vary with the FR of the speaker, the FR of the SLM and, even, the orientation of the mic in the SLM. More than any of this, it is affected by the room response which, as you know, can vary the net FR considerably. The measurements made by Audyssey (and many other systems) uses a swept tone which is synchronized to a swept filter and the gating eliminates room influences by allowing measurement of only short latency component. I get excellent correlation between Audyssey's measurements and those I get from other calibrated systems like TEF.

Kal

[Nuthed]

I sell Denon so I deal with Audyssey all of the time and I don't like it. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people but I don't like it.

Eric

Sounds like you don't understand how to use it. Thats ok. It does take some experimentation. :T

[imbeaujp]

Audyssey is a good option if your room or setup need it.

If not, there is no advantage to have it. You should go for better components without thoses features.

Make a room mesurement with a software like RoomEQwizard. Change your sub position and see if you need EQ.

JP