Blue Ray

[wz2p7j]

Hi everyone,

I don't post here often but appreciate the conversation here and have learned a lot. Say, any rumors about a Rotel Blue Ray player floating around? I haven't seen anything but it seems a logical next step for Rotel now that the "format wars" are seemingly over. Thanks, Chris

[Nolan B]

Hi everyone,

I don't post here often but appreciate the conversation here and have learned a lot. Say, any rumors about a Rotel Blue Ray player floating around? I haven't seen anything but it seems a logical next step for Rotel now that the "format wars" are seemingly over. Thanks, Chris

My dealer told me that they are working on one and we should see it end of this year or ealry next at the latest. Perhaps we will hear something at Cedia.

I sure hope Rotel gets over their lack of SACD support. With what Oppo has been putting out and what they likely will put out there is no excuse for a lack of support in these formats especially at the high price point we know the Rotel will com out at.


This really goes out to all CE companies. Oppo really creates a benchmark for quality when it comes to video and audio as a digital transport. Im guessing that when Oppo comes out with a BD player it will be less then $500-$600 and will do everything. There is just no reason to spend $2,000 + on a player which doesnt support all formats. Ill pay more for brand and DACs if the DACs are clearly better then in the brand matching processor...other then that I really need to see more value to justify the hig price tag of some of these players to come.


If Rotel reads this I can give a few suggestions:

1.) Built in hard drive (500 GB?) or at least a USB 2.0 for attaching an external hard drive. I want my source player to act as at least a mini server. A 500 GB HD can be bought for less then $100 bucks..im sure they can fit that in when charging 2k+

2.) Digital input if the DACs used are something to brag about.

3.) Support all audio formats (SACD DVD A)...this really should be a given now days and I wont even consider Rotel if they lack here.

4.) OSD showing exactly what is being decoded and what bitrates are for video and audio in real time.


Really there is no need to think of a player as just a BD player or just a CD player any more. There is no reason one box can't be a complete source player...and there is certainly no reason to charge 2k +++ for a player which doesnt do everything and do everything well.


I really like Rotel and support them very well, but I will be extreemly criticle of them if they release a source player that is nothing more then a Rotel 1093 that plays Blu Ray.

[shadow 8]

Don't hold your breath waiting for a Rotel blu ray player. Won't happen for over a year if then based on prior history of this company.

[esaleris]

Don't hold your breath waiting for a Rotel blu ray player. Won't happen for over a year if then based on prior history of this company.

Also consider the fact that you will be paying for the vaunted Rotel quality. Would not be surprised if the Blu-Ray player comes out at $2000 to $3000 USD, given the price of their current SD DVD players (RDV-1093 at $2000). This will be in stark contrast to the decreasing prices of Blu-Ray players from other brands, which are likely to start bumping into the $200 territory.

That said, I hope they develop several models to choose from. I would definetly be interested in a Rotel transport-only player.

[hifiguymi]

Hi everyone,

I don't post here often but appreciate the conversation here and have learned a lot. Say, any rumors about a Rotel Blue Ray player floating around? I haven't seen anything but it seems a logical next step for Rotel now that the "format wars" are seemingly over. Thanks, Chris

Rotel won't have one for a while, if ever. Until there are drives and processors available in large quantities from OEM's you won't see companies like Rotel making BD players soon.

I'm sure another thing thing that will go into Rotel's decision will be market maturity for both BD and downloads. As much as I don't like downloads, and think the infrastructure is a ways off for mass adaption, it will be a factor for all small CE companies in product planning.

Eric

[H.T.C]

Rotel won't have one for a while, if ever. Until there are drives and processors available in large quantities from OEM's you won't see companies like Rotel making BD players soon.

I'm sure another thing thing that will go into Rotel's decision will be market maturity for both BD and downloads. As much as I don't like downloads, and think the infrastructure is a ways off for mass adaption, it will be a factor for all small CE companies in product planning.

Eric

If you look on netflix website it says they plan not only downloading films on thier own box but videogame consoles and discussion of this service in bd-players as well.

So,the infrastructure may not there but the idea behind it is gaining momentum quicker then many would believe.

[hifiguymi]

My dealer told me that they are working on one and we should see it end of this year or ealry next at the latest. Perhaps we will hear something at Cedia.

My rep told me Rotel is a long way off from offering a BD player and may never do one. Time will tell.

I sure hope Rotel gets over their lack of SACD support. With what Oppo has been putting out and what they likely will put out there is no excuse for a lack of support in these formats especially at the high price point we know the Rotel will com out at.

I don't think you will ever see a player form Rotel that will play SACD's. There aren't that many OEMs that make drives that will do every format (ignoring BD for a minute). I believe you will see less and less support from CE companies across the board that will have products to play DVD-A and/or SACD. So for BD, there isn't a single BD player on the market, or announced for that matter (although there is a rumor that Pioneer will have one), that plays DVD-A or SACD. That includes Sony. That would make a Rotel player a LONG way off (so probably never).

This really goes out to all CE companies. Oppo really creates a benchmark for quality when it comes to video and audio as a digital transport. Im guessing that when Oppo comes out with a BD player it will be less then $500-$600 and will do everything. There is just no reason to spend $2,000 + on a player which doesnt support all formats. Ill pay more for brand and DACs if the DACs are clearly better then in the brand matching processor...other then that I really need to see more value to justify the hig price tag of some of these players to come.

And this may be why Rotel will never make a BD player. If all connections will be digital in the future (and they will) there will be no need for expensive DACs in a player. Things like a robust power supply and high quality chassis add a lot of money to a piece of A/V gear, so if the improvements are really small (which they can make big improvements and have in the past) and most people won't pay the difference why do it.

If Rotel reads this I can give a few suggestions:

And I'll play devils advocate.

1.) Built in hard drive (500 GB?) or at least a USB 2.0 for attaching an external hard drive. I want my source player to act as at least a mini server. A 500 GB HD can be bought for less then $100 bucks..im sure they can fit that in when charging 2k+

The hard drives price is inconsequential. It costs a lot of money to develop, or purchase, the user interface to operate a music server. Yes it could be very basic, but would you want that from a company like Rotel? If they did it, they should do it right. Not half assed.

2.) Digital input if the DACs used are something to brag about.

That is what the processor is for. I don't think you find that many companies doing that in the future. Not many people did it in the first place.

3.) Support all audio formats (SACD DVD A)...this really should be a given now days and I wont even consider Rotel if they lack here.

As I said above, I don't think you will see a future Rotel product will SACD support. I don't work for them so I don't know for sure. From what my rep says however, it doesn't sound like it.

4.) OSD showing exactly what is being decoded and what bitrates are for video and audio in real time.

No argument there.

Really there is no need to think of a player as just a BD player or just a CD player any more. There is no reason one box can't be a complete source player...and there is certainly no reason to charge 2k +++ for a player which doesnt do everything and do everything well.

I don't disagree with you but it's not that simple. Since there aren't any drives out there that will play everything - CD, DVD-V (and all of the various recordable versions), DVD-A, SACD, and BD (other than the rumor of Pioneer's player) - you won't see anything like that from Rotel in a long time, if ever. I don't know what Oppo is planning, and until anything shows up it's vapor ware, so time will tell.

I really like Rotel and support them very well, but I will be extreemly criticle of them if they release a source player that is nothing more then a Rotel 1093 that plays Blu Ray.

The RDV-1093 is a very good DVD player and I'd be happy to own one. That said, it is getting long in the tooth in todays fast moving video world. I don't think you will see a replacement that will play BDs for a long time however.

Eric

[hifiguymi]

Also consider the fact that you will be paying for the vaunted Rotel quality. Would not be surprised if the Blu-Ray player comes out at $2000 to $3000 USD, given the price of their current SD DVD players (RDV-1093 at $2000). This will be in stark contrast to the decreasing prices of Blu-Ray players from other brands, which are likely to start bumping into the $200 territory.

That said, I hope they develop several models to choose from. I would definetly be interested in a Rotel transport-only player.

If Rotel were to build a BD player, and it were a transport only (meaning HDMI out only), it would still have to have decoding for all audio formats internally. Since the RSP-1069 and RSX-1058 do not decode the new audio formats internally, the BD player / transport would have to.

Eric

[Nolan B]

If Rotel were to build a BD player, and it were a transport only (meaning HDMI out only), it would still have to have decoding for all audio formats internally. Since the RSP-1069 and RSX-1058 do not decode the new audio formats internally, the BD player / transport would have to.

Eric

and thats totally fine...it doesnt have to be a bitstream only if it acts a digital transport. I jut say build right and leave out DACs unless they are better then the ones in the processor for CD 2channel playback.

[Nolan B]

[

I don't think you will ever see a player form Rotel that will play SACD's. There aren't that many OEMs that make drives that will do every format (ignoring BD for a minute). I believe you will see less and less support from CE companies across the board that will have products to play DVD-A and/or SACD. So for BD, there isn't a single BD player on the market, or announced for that matter (although there is a rumor that Pioneer will have one), that plays DVD-A or SACD. That includes Sony. That would make a Rotel player a LONG way off (so probably never).

there are enough OEMS that do it..and if Oppo can do it in a sub $200 player then so can other OEMs and they are even welcome to charge more for their brand. If they decide to never build one then fine. I have to imagine that if a large Rotel supporter like myself would turn my back on their brand because they do not move with the times (im not even asking them to be innovative hear) then I am sure many others would too. Im just a great customer saying what Rotel needs to do if they wish to keep my business.

And this may be why Rotel will never make a BD player. If all connections will be digital in the future (and they will) there will be no need for expensive DACs in a player. Things like a robust power supply and high quality chassis add a lot of money to a piece of A/V gear, so if the improvements are really small (which they can make big improvements and have in the past) and most people won't pay the difference why do it.

This is a poor reason to simply say "i not making one". There is a market out there for high end and entry high end source players without the need for DACs. DVD playes were never sold on the basis of DACs in the players and there is no reason for BD players to be different in that regard. Now with the intro duction of HDMI 1.1 frankly DACs in a player for DVD A and SACD is a moot point...not needed.

The hard drives price is inconsequential. It costs a lot of money to develop, or purchase, the user interface to operate a music server. Yes it could be very basic, but would you want that from a company like Rotel? If they did it, they should do it right. Not half assed.

I agree...they should do it right and charge accordingly.

I don't disagree with you but it's not that simple. Since there aren't any drives out there that will play everything - CD, DVD-V (and all of the various recordable versions), DVD-A, SACD, and BD (other than the rumor of Pioneer's player) - you won't see anything like that from Rotel in a long time, if ever. I don't know what Oppo is planning, and until anything shows up it's vapor ware, so time will tell.

time will tell...my input was only based on what Rotel would need to do in order to motivate me to upgrade.

The PS3 and Oppo has set standards other OEMs need to live up to IMO.

The RDV-1093 is a very good DVD player

the RDV1093 is a poor DVD player priced at over 2k...poor value in a nice looking box. The Oppo 983 is $400 and performes better then the 1093 in every possible way.

[hifiguymi]

there are enough OEMS that do it..and if Oppo can do it in a sub $200 player then so can other OEMs and they are even welcome to charge more for their brand. If they decide to never build one then fine. I have to imagine that if a large Rotel supporter like myself would turn my back on their brand because they do not move with the times (im not even asking them to be innovative hear) then I am sure many others would too. Im just a great customer saying what Rotel needs to do if they wish to keep my business.

If Rotel hasn't done SACD by now I don't think they will. I don't think the number of OEMs that make SACD drives will grow. I believe they will shrink. It may be that Rotel just doesn't have a relationship with the companies that do make them. It's hard to say for sure. I understand your desire for an SACD player from them but you are in the minority. Most customers that I talk to don't even know what it is and the ones that do don't care about it. It's sad because of the fidelity SACD offers. That is the reality however.

This is a poor reason to simply say "i not making one". There is a market out there for high end and entry high end source players without the need for DACs. DVD playes were never sold on the basis of DACs in the players and there is no reason for BD players to be different in that regard. Now with the intro duction of HDMI 1.1 frankly DACs in a player for DVD A and SACD is a moot point...not needed.

I'm not saying that is Rotel's stance but I'm sure that will play into their decision. I do know there is a market for those type of players. I'm one of those customers and I sell to them all of the time. The question is how many and are there enough to justify building a player that needs to last, and be relevant, for more than a couple of years. Rotel can't keep up with the large CE companies in terms of features and model churn. BD will have to be much more mature before they can afford to get in the game. With all of the other possibilities / formats for people to watch movies coming down the line who know what will happen. I hope BD sticks around for a long time. I don't like the thought of downloads but it will happen at some point.

Remember that HDMI 1.1 only works for SACD it the player converts the DSD into a PCM stream. You need HDMI 1.2 to handle DSD in it native from and then you need a processor that will either convert it to PCM or decode it.

I agree...they should do it right and charge accordingly.

No arguments here. I just don't think they have the expertise in the user interface department to do it right. If Rotel were to do a music server I think they would have to purchase someone else's and put it in a Rotel chassis. Are there enough people out there that would pay the premium they would have to charge for their chassis and name?

time will tell...my input was only based on what Rotel would need to do in order to motivate me to upgrade.

The PS3 and Oppo has set standards other OEMs need to live up to IMO.

I have never used an Oppo player so I can't comment on their quality and performance. The PS3 is a tough one. I know it's marketed as a BD player as much or more than a game system but it is a game system at heart. Since that is the case it is sold at a loss and it does skew the market a little. There are quite a few people that don't want it because it is a game system but it doesn't change the fact it makes life difficult for other CE companies.

the RDV1093 is a poor DVD player priced at over 2k...poor value in a nice looking box. The Oppo 983 is $400 and performes better then the 1093 in every possible way.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Again I've never seen an Oppo player in action but that doesn't make the RDV-1093 a poor player. Looking at the images it creates, and the sound quality it produces, is what I'm judging it by and comparing it to other players. I think it's quite good. It's not perfect, but very good. Here in the states it's $1500.00 and I think it's worth it.

You say the Oppo out performs the RDV-1093. Have you done a side by side and looked at picture quality and listened to them playing the same CD and DVD-A? If so, then I believe you that you like the Oppo better. That proves my point even further about a BD player from Rotel. Since their models last much longer than the big guys it would be very difficult for them to do a BD player any time soon and have it retain it's desirability.

Eric

[hifiguymi]

If you look on netflix website it says they plan not only downloading films on thier own box but videogame consoles and discussion of this service in bd-players as well.

So,the infrastructure may not there but the idea behind it is gaining momentum quicker then many would believe.

Things like this will hamper the rate of adoption of movie downloads.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008...-internet-use/

Eric

[unclemick]

[I have to imagine that if a large Rotel supporter like myself would turn my back on their brand because they do not move with the times (im not even asking them to be innovative hear) then I am sure many others would too. Im just a great customer saying what Rotel needs to do if they wish to keep my business.

Here Here. I couldn't agree more with this statement.

[H.T.C]

Things like this will hamper the rate of adoption of movie downloads.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008...-internet-use/

Eric

Its seems one company (movie rental) wants subscribers for downloading purposes and the other (isp) will be putting a cap on its users creating a total contradiction with their policy which will have consumers paying for internet entertainment which will take more money from them then they want to pay or able to spend.

[H.T.C]

Blu-Ray to be in 3-D: according to a report from http://psu.com a news story from play3-live has announced that TDVision systems are in the process of making 3D films run on the ps3 using their codecs.

[hifiguymi]

Here Here. I couldn't agree more with this statement.

I agree as well. However, Vancouver's statement was in reference to SACD, and I don't think Rotel would be "moving with the times" to invest in a player that would support it. As I said, I like SACD but it is FAR from mainstream. There is no way Rotel would get a return on thier investment if they were to release one.

As far as BD is concerned I would love to see one from them tomorrow. The format isn't mature enough at this point for Rotel to build a player. It's gonna take a while.

Eric

[H.T.C]

Sorry,the blu-ray in 3d should have been in ps3 thread.

[Destruction]

I think we'll be lucky to see any new BD or DVD player from Rotel at all.

[Nolan B]

You know I was thinking more about this topic today, and realized that Rotel is cazy not to make a BD player even if they loose some money at it. A lot of people who own systems like to have match equipment. Potential buyers are likely to turn away from Rotel amps, processors, CD players etc if they cant get a Rotel BD player. The potential sale will be lost to a competitor who offers a complete set up.

Couldnt rotel at least rebage a player? They did it with the Rotel 1040 and the rotel power conditioner line...why not do it with BD players? Rebage the Panasonic BD50 or something and add a few things to it.

[Kevin D]

The problem is who's going to sell them one at price less then they can sell their own? Aside from probably the Denon's, nobody can keep up with demand. Best-buy and Circuit-City pretty much buy everything they can get. We're a high-end dealer and because the lines we chose (even the main-stream ones) don't have a blu-ray player yet, we're stuck selling refurbished Sony's (when we can get them).

Same with the HD decoder chips. When 5 companies buy most of the available stock, there's nothing left for Rotel to do. When supply catches up to demand, I'm sure Rotel will be able to move forward.

Kevin D.

[Nolan B]

The problem is who's going to sell them one at price less then they can sell their own? Aside from probably the Denon's, nobody can keep up with demand. Best-buy and Circuit-City pretty much buy everything they can get. We're a high-end dealer and because the lines we chose (even the main-stream ones) don't have a blu-ray player yet, we're stuck selling refurbished Sony's (when we can get them).

Same with the HD decoder chips. When 5 companies buy most of the available stock, there's nothing left for Rotel to do. When supply catches up to demand, I'm sure Rotel will be able to move forward.

Kevin D.

wouldnt that stand to reason that BD is selling very well if supply cant keep up with demand? I was under the impression that adoption has been slower then expected.

maybe ill trn my vacation property into a HD decoder chip manufacturing facility and cash in!

[vsteel]

I wouldn't expect SACD to make an appearance on Rotel. I just bought a PS3 to drive my HDTV and the 40 gig model doesn't support SACD. If Sony is stepping back from the format it can't be a good sign.

Rotel being a smaller company also might have issues with a blu-ray player due to the fact that the standard is still somewhat in flux. I do know that 2.0 is coming/is out but I don't know of there is a 2.5 or 3.0 spec in the wings.

I think they will eventually come out with a blu-ray player, but I wouldn't expect to see one for a couple of years at best.

[Pez]

I think they will eventually come out with a blu-ray player, but I wouldn't expect to see one for a couple of years at best.

Even then blu ray has a long way to go. When movies are $30 it will never be mainstream like DVD. I used to buy tons of DVD's and then slowed down during the format war. Now that its over there is no way I will buy blu ray ones at the same rate, will put me in the poorhouse if I did. In a couple of years downloads could be the next "thing" and then the incentive for rotel could be less to make a blu ray player. Its going to be interesting to see how things shake out the next couple of years.

[Ken49r]

I wouldn't expect SACD to make an appearance on Rotel. I just bought a PS3 to drive my HDTV and the 40 gig model doesn't support SACD. If Sony is stepping back from the format it can't be a good sign.

The 80 gig PS3 is making a comeback on June 12th. in a bundle pack. I don't know if it offers SACD though. I thought it was the only one that did play SACD before it was pulled in January. With the Blue-ray audio discs coming out SACD may take a backseat to Blue-ray.

I haven't heard any comments on The RDV-1093's DVD-A sound quality but by reading this article it could explain why the RDV-1093 seems be an over priced DVD player to some folks but actualy a quality DVD-A player. And along the same lines why Rotel chose DVD-A over SACD.

http://sound.westhost.com/cd-sacd-dvda.htm

[hifiguymi]

I wouldn't expect SACD to make an appearance on Rotel. I just bought a PS3 to drive my HDTV and the 40 gig model doesn't support SACD. If Sony is stepping back from the format it can't be a good sign.

Rotel being a smaller company also might have issues with a blu-ray player due to the fact that the standard is still somewhat in flux. I do know that 2.0 is coming/is out but I don't know of there is a 2.5 or 3.0 spec in the wings.

I think they will eventually come out with a blu-ray player, but I wouldn't expect to see one for a couple of years at best.

BD standards are not in flux. The standard Profile is Profile 1.1 and Profile 2.0 is optional. It's been that way for a while now (any player introduced after November 1st, 2007). There is a Profile 3.0 that is an audio only spec but it doesn't exist in any player or on any disc at this point. Who knows if it ever will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

Eric

[vsteel]

BD standards are not in flux. The standard Profile is Profile 1.1 and Profile 2.0 is optional. It's been that way for a while now (any player introduced after November 1st, 2007). There is a Profile 3.0 that is an audio only spec but it doesn't exist in any player or on any disc at this point. Who knows if it ever will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

Eric

The flux comment had to do with the profiles you mention. There are 4 on the Wikipedia site, though you could argue that the first one doesn't count. My point is where would Rotel jump in? Sure right now 3.0 doesn't mean a lot but maybe in a year it would be the next big thing. Maybe in 6 months there will be a 4.0 profile. It doesn't seem solidified enough for a company of Rotel's size in my opinion.

[Nuthed]

Never mind, I deleted the post. Someone already said it.