Which ICEPower module in which Rotel amp?

[cug]

Hi.

Does anybody know exactly which ICEPower module is in which amplifier?

Thanks,
Guido

[Kevin D]

I believe the RB-1091/2 use the 1000ASP
The 1077 uses the 250ASP

The 1082/1076/1085 use a newer model that I can't find the model number on. It's one that's actually rated by B&O as 100w at 8ohm, rather then the 1077's being rated as 250w at 4ohm.

Kevin D.

[mike c]

nice. at least my 1077 has great 4 ohm capability

now to buy that 4 ohm speaker i've been dreaming about for a long time
(Monitor Audio PL100) ... and since this is a 2 channel setup, I can bi-amp too

[Kevin D]

They're 'mostly' stable at 2ohm's as well.. At least the 1091 is!

Kevin D.

[cug]

I believe the RB-1091/2 use the 1000ASP
The 1077 uses the 250ASP

The 250ASP is rated as 250W into 2.7 Ohm with 0.01% THD. Interesting values ...

300W into 2.7 Ohm at 1% THD
250W into 4 Ohm at 1% THD
130W into 8 Ohm at 1% THD

So it goes very steep from non-clip to clipping.

The 1082/1076/1085 use a newer model that I can't find the model number on. It's one that's actually rated by B&O as 100w at 8ohm, rather then the 1077's being rated as 250w at 4ohm.

That should be 1072, right?

Probably the 200ASC which is rated at 100W into 8 Ohm with 0.2% THD.

It is really hard to compare the numbers on those modules as they all are given with different THD.

[cug]

Ah, and I forgot ...

Rotel, where's the stereo amp with the 500A modules?

cug, waiting

[Kevin D]

That should be 1072, right?

Probably the 200ASC which is rated at 100W into 8 Ohm with 0.2% THD.

It is really hard to compare the numbers on those modules as they all are given with different THD.

Correct. I always mess that up for some reason.

Kevin D.

[Kevin D]

Actually looking at the icepower site again, I think the 1092 and 1077 might use the A series of amps, not the ASP. But it is confusing. Plus keep in mind they are designed using the ICE modules, but modified to Rotel's liking.

As far as using the 500A modules, last I heard Rotel could not get the sound right and is waiting for B&O to design a new 200@8ohm module.

Kevin D.

[cug]

As far as using the 500A modules, last I heard Rotel could not get the sound right and is waiting for B&O to design a new 200@8ohm module.

Argl ...

I may want to replace my RA-1062 in the next couple of months and I really don't know where to go from there to drive my 804S.

I thought of a combination of an RC-1082 / RB-1092 as the RC-1070 / RB-1072 didn't do much in terms of sound improvement but that is power-wise overkill and goes in a region where I also could add a couple of bucks and get a Classé CAP-2100. Only problem with that: to remain consistent with the look and feel I'd have to replace the RCD-1072 too and the Classé cd players are just priced ridiculously. The smallest starts with about $3000 if I remember correctly which totally sucks.

I could ditch optics and only replace the amp, get either the CAP-2100 or the Bryston integrated. Or use the RA-1062 as a pre for a while and get a CA-2200. Or ... this is endless. What I'd really like is a small well sounding Class D with around 200 to 250W into 8 Ohm. I even thought of adding the Bel Canto M300 to my current setup, but I'm not sure how that would match.

Freaking hobby ... maybe I should just stay with the stuff I have.

[Carrotman]

Old thread, sorry:

RB-1091: 1 x 1000ASP
RB-1092: 2 x 1000ASP
RMB-1077: 2 x 250ASP (front) + 5 x 250A (other channels)
RMB-1076: 2 x 200ASC + 4 x 200AC
RB-1072: 2 x 200ASC

Rotel doesn't use the 500ASP though many other manufacturers do. There's a surprising difference in the sonic signature of the two modules, so if you're after something with a slightly warmer sound than the 109x, it might be worthwhile to audition a 500ASP-based amplifier from another manufacturer


/U.

[cug]

Many thanks for the information! Very interesting to know. Which manufacture use the 500ASP module? It seems Jeff Rowland uses them, but they are absolutely ridiculous in price compared to the Rotels. Also others I found are basically charging like crazy for their case design.

I don't get it. From my perspective it is just bold pricing ... Okay, because I'm always a suspicious person I don't believe them when they say they modify sooooo much about the sound.

[miner]

Another kudos to Rotel for bang-for-the-buck designs.

[Ferres]

nice. at least my 1077 has great 4 ohm capability

now to buy that 4 ohm speaker i've been dreaming about for a long time
(Monitor Audio PL100) ... and since this is a 2 channel setup, I can bi-amp too

This may not be advisable since the 7 channels are not identical.

[mjb]

This may not be advisable since the 7 channels are not identical.

That's not strictly true, the only difference between the 250ASP and the 250A modules is that the ASP version has an on-board power supply, capable of driving 1 or 2 additional A version modules. Otherwise the circuits are identical.

[Ferres]

That's not strictly true, the only difference between the 250ASP and the 250A modules is that the ASP version has an on-board power supply, capable of driving 1 or 2 additional A version modules. Otherwise the circuits are identical.

I have tried this myself with the 1077 and it sounded sibilant. It maybe a matter of deciding which channel to use for HF or LF. Some have mentioned that the front channels should be used for the High Frequency inputs. I did not try that combination since I was satisfied when I reverted to the basic set up with no bi-amping.

[Carrotman]

That's not strictly true, the only difference between the 250ASP and the 250A modules is that the ASP version has an on-board power supply, capable of driving 1 or 2 additional A version modules. Otherwise the circuits are identical.

Not quite. There are minor differences between them which you may be able to hear and you will (that is, you should) never see an ASP/A-combination used as right/left-channels in a stereo amplifier. The most important difference though is that the 250ASP incorporates protection features which the 250A does not and consequently the channels labeled "front" (or whatever they call them) should drive the heaviest load, i.e. the front speakers. If you're going to bi-amp your frontspeakers using a single 1077, you should therefore let front L/R on the amp drive the bass and another pair of channels (L/R) drive the mid/tweeter. This should guarantee you the best performance/reliability from a loading perspective, but you can of course experiment with a different setup as long as you are aware of the possible consequences (slightly increased risk of damage to the amp if you play it very loudly).


/U.

[Carrotman]

Many thanks for the information! Very interesting to know. Which manufacture use the 500ASP module? It seems Jeff Rowland uses them, but they are absolutely ridiculous in price compared to the Rotels. Also others I found are basically charging like crazy for their case design.

I don't get it. From my perspective it is just bold pricing ... Okay, because I'm always a suspicious person I don't believe them when they say they modify sooooo much about the sound.

Quite a few manufacturers use the 500ASP. I don't remember all the names, but the power rating and other specs should be a dead giveaway

While I would not necessarily pay the asking price of a Jeff Rowland-amp, you do get an exquisite finish as well as some "additions" to the basic ICEpower-module (such as power factor correction etc.) so IMO he deserves credit for that compared to other manufacturers that basically add no value to an OEM-product apart from packing it. Funnily enough JRDG is often singled out as the prime example of this practice, which always gets a smile on my face after spending nearly an hour at CES2007 listening to Jeff himself describing the amount of tests and experiments they had done with the ICEpower modules - credit where it's due


/U.

[mike c]

Ferres, MJB,

that's what stopped me in my tracks in trying to bi-amp with the 1077. good thing I haven't bought interconnects/speaker wire yet.

[Ferres]

Not quite. There are minor differences between them which you may be able to hear and you will (that is, you should) never see an ASP/A-combination used as right/left-channels in a stereo amplifier. The most important difference though is that the 250ASP incorporates protection features which the 250A does not and consequently the channels labeled "front" (or whatever they call them) should drive the heaviest load, i.e. the front speakers. If you're going to bi-amp your frontspeakers using a single 1077, you should therefore let front L/R on the amp drive the bass and another pair of channels (L/R) drive the mid/tweeter. This should guarantee you the best performance/reliability from a loading perspective, but you can of course experiment with a different setup as long as you are aware of the possible consequences (slightly increased risk of damage to the amp if you play it very loudly).


/U.

This is exactly what I did and the result was sibilance. Using the front L/R to drive the bass and the rear L/R to drive the mid/tweeters. The sibilance was not dramatic but present, specially from female vocals. :cry:

[Ferres]

Ferres, MJB,

that's what stopped me in my tracks in trying to bi-amp with the 1077. good thing I haven't bought interconnects/speaker wire yet.

Regardless of the sibilance, there was hardly any noticable benefit bi-amping with the rmb-1077. Go with the rb-1092 hard to find a better amp in it's power/price/performance category.

[mjb]

mmm, not sure what the "sibilance" was all about, I'm bi-amping with a 1077 and it sounds just fine.

But, the jury is still out on this whole bi-amping thing. Why does almost every speaker have four binding posts and a section about bi-wiring/amping in the manual if its such a bad idea? Yes, buy a bigger amp is the ideal solution, but not always practical. Perhaps bi-amping is something to do temporarily while you're saving up. Thats my excuse anyway

[mjb]

Here are the data sheets on the two modules used in the 1077, the 250ASP, and the 250A. Having read these over, they are different. Seems they're recommending the ASP module for bass and the A module for mid/top. I'm not sure what Rotel does to them either.

[mike c]

They're 'mostly' stable at 2ohm's as well.. At least the 1091 is!

Kevin D.

hi Kevin, did you ask rotel if the rb1091 is indeed 2 ohm stable or is it based on your experience in running this with your sub?

im just having doubts because the ice power website does not even mention a 2 ohm rating for the 1000ASP.

[Carrotman]

Mike, the 1000ASP is 2ohm stable (this is also mentioned in the datasheet as the min. load) Just be aware that with a 2ohm load you'll be more likely to hit the current limiter and thus activate the clipping circuits.

/U.

[mars]

Here are the data sheets on the two modules used in the 1077, the 250ASP, and the 250A. Having read these over, they are different. Seems they're recommending the ASP module for bass and the A module for mid/top. I'm not sure what Rotel does to them either.

Biamping here also... sound is good. I tried it both ways with L/R for the mid high and for the bass (I have only one small 8 inch "bass" driver in each of my mains that is crossed over at 80 where it hands off to my subs so it isn't doing much). It was biamp or idle two modules as I am still on 5.1 and will be for the forseeable future.
The 250A is used in some subs so I wouldn't worry about its bass capability.

[ronning]

Resurrecting this thread as it's very relevant to my current purchase decision.

I'd like to buy (of course try out first) one of the new Rotel 15-series amps. Probably either the 1562 (2x100), 1572 (2x250), or my favorite the 1565 (5x100). These are all class-D amps using the ICE modules.

I've heard great things about the 1077 and am hoping that these new amps carry on and improve on the work done on the 1077. However, it's really confusing to figure out whether these new ones are the same/better or possibly worse?!

The 1077 uses the 250ASP & A series ICE modules which according to B&O are the higher quality modules. The 1085/1076 amps used the "ASC" series modules which are of a lower quality & are cheaper (hence the lower prices of those amps).

What I'm getting conflicting information on is whether the new 1562/1565 amps use the 250ASP or whether they use 200ASC modules (people have report they use "200ASP modules" which as far as I can tell don't exist!)

Any help would be appreciated! I guess the best thing would be for anyone who has a 1565 to take a close-up photo of the guts of their amp! (the model number is stamped right into the B&O module)

Thanks!

[srb]

After the 15 series had been available for a few months, to help a purchase decision, I wanted to know if the 100W/channel Class D amplifiers used in the 1560 receiver were the same as those in the separate 100W/channel 1565 power amplifier.

I emailed Rotel, and after several weeks when I heard no answer, I called Rotel Sales. They couldn't provide an answer, and I was referred to Rotel Technical Support. Technical support said they in fact had my email and were "working on it".

I never heard anything back. It seemed like a simple enough sales question, but if Rotel couldn't provide that answer, I'm sure I could never really find out which B&O modules were used in what products.

Steve

[ronning]

does anybody have one of these amps? if so, they could take a picture and the module number would be visibly stamped on it.