RSP-1098 Upgrade problem

[HiRez]

Greetings,

My attempt to upgrade the firmware on my 1098 failed.
The mtty program never got connected to the processor successfully and now it doesn't even boot. I can turn on the back switch and that's it. Can not even turn it on from the panel or remote!
I followed the instructions from the Rotel website to the letter. Later on I also tried using hyperterminal still no luck. I also tried using two other PCs.
Anyone with a similar experience?

Regards

[Fishy]

Looks like you'll need to return it to your dealers who may have to send it off for repair.

Fish

[Iggurk]

Did you put back to default position the two dip switches on the back?

Seems you made something wrong, updated mine 4 times without any issue.

What's the firmware version before update?

To which version did you tried to update?

[Iggurk]

I also suggest you to try to restart the whole update procedure from the start point.

And ensure that everything is ok prior going next step.

I've posted the latest FW I've installed on mine here:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=24317

[Iggurk]

Hi Hirez,

What did u finally do with your 1098?

[HiRez]

Hello Iggurk,

Thank you for your concern.
Still no resolution; I checked everything I could including if the switches are broken, fuses. I do not even hear the relay clicking when the unit is switched on.
There is just an importer where I live and I do not want them to touch the internals of this unit.

I will be travelling to the States next month and planning to take the CPU board (and maybe the DSP board also) with me to send it to Rotel.

Looking ahead, did anyone hear of an HDMI upgrade to the 1098 (a new board that can be swapped with one of the existing) ?

Regards

[Kevin D]

Looking ahead, did anyone hear of an HDMI upgrade to the 1098 (a new board that can be swapped with one of the existing) ?

Regards

I can't say if an HDMI upgrade board for the 1098 exists, but if something like that were to interest you, I would suggest bringing your entire 1098 to the states. It will most likely require slight modifications to the chassis to work.

Kevin D.

[Iggurk]

did you try to restart the procedure from the beginning?

I'm pretty sure that you can connect to it with MTTY and erase the memory, you must have done something wrong the first time.

you must follow these instructions :

http://europe.rotel.com/support/files/techup-h20-files/ROTtechupR4.pdf

Regarding the hdmi, don't expect anything, the 1098 is at the end of his life, no update will be available.

Yves

[cadman]

Rotel upgradable ( Rotel no more )

did you try to restart the procedure from the beginning?

I'm pretty sure that you can connect to it with MTTY and erase the memory, you must have done something wrong the first time.

you must follow these instructions :

http://europe.rotel.com/support/files/techup-h20-files/ROTtechupR4.pdf

Regarding the hdmi, don't expect anything, the 1098 is at the end of his life, no update will be available.

Yves

I am so disappointed about this :M ( bought it because it was upgradable ) and Rotel no more me ever

[HiRez]

Hi,

I have been following Rotel's instructions all along and it never got connected.
Even after the first attempt I was not able to get it to switch on.

I asked the HDMI question to Rotel Europe and the answer was :
"Unfortunately we do not yet know whether an HDMI upgrade will be possible for the RSP-1098, however please feel free to contact us later in the year when we may be in a position to advise you."

Should I read this as a diplomatic way of them saying no ?

Even an external processor would do (like they did in the 900 series with dts decoding); does anyone know of an non-Rotel external HDMI processor ?

Regards

[thunderstorm77]

If I understand you correctly - Parasound has one:

http://www.parasound.com/zcustom/zhd.php

It's just a HDMI switcher, and it can be fully integrated into their processors via the RS-232 connector. I too wish Rotel made one also, or even better, made a HDMI-board, but that may not be possible.

[Henk]

I recently attempted the RSP 1098 upgrade to v 2.18, on Rotel's instructions, in order to get my Rotel RVE 1060 scaler to communicate with the processor. I followed the upgrade instructions to the letter, without any success. The "upgrade" fried the digital board and caused certain other malfunctions as well. I had to send the processor to Rotel South Africa, who fitted a new digital board which was then also fried while they were attempting the upgrade. In the end they had to seek advice from Rotel Europe, who advised replacing certain processor boards. Eventually it was all sorted out, fortunately at no cost to myself.

The RVE 1060 is however still not communicating properly with the RSP 1098, in that the processor's OSD cannot be displayed via the scaler while operating a device through one of the scaler's inputs. I've been informed by Rotel that the OSD cannot be displayed in that way, since the processor cannot display the OSD with a progressive signal. I responded that I found the reply rather unsatisfactory, since all sources are set to interlaced, ie no progressive signal is output from any device to the RVE and on the processor itself the menu is set to "no progressive". Their reply also contradicted the RVE's manual, which states that all OSD information must be sent to the monitor via the scaler, thus setting the processor's display to "monitor only". No solution has been forthcoming since then. Bottom line: the RVE 1060 does not function in the manner described in its manual. I'm surprised that Rotel placed the product on the market without disclosing that shortcoming clearly in the manual.

[HiRez]

My desire is for a more complete HDMI 1.3 implementation on (or around) RSP-1098 meaning audio features should be implemented:
i. Full DVD-A bitstream implementation
ii. Full SACD bitstream implementation
iii.Full implementation of HD flavors of Dolby and DTS.

Video switching and some scaling (up to 1080i), but no audio, is already available in the US model RVE-1060 (http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rve1060.htm); it handles PAL as well as NTSC and its power requirement is 110 to 240 volts, 50 to 60 Hz, which makes me believe it is suitable for worldwide use (yet the model shows up in the US website not in global website)

I would like to see audio features, as I described in the 3 items above, added to RVE-1060 or, better yet, a replacement DSP processor to the RSP-1098 to implement the audio features and some switching.

Regards

[Kevin D]

The RVE 1060 is however still not communicating properly with the RSP 1098, in that the processor's OSD cannot be displayed via the scaler while operating a device through one of the scaler's inputs. I've been informed by

Can you explain what you were wanting? I get the OSD menu fine through my 1060. You won't get any information applied over a video signal if that's what you wanted (volume, surround mode, etc). If that's what you were wanting, I don't recall anywhere in the manual that would infer that would happen.

The 1060 isn't applying any of the OSD menu system to a video signal, it's taking an all ready created video signal (blank with text) from the 1098 and just switching to that signal when required for setup.

Kevin D.

[Kevin D]

My desire is for a more complete HDMI 1.3 implementation on (or around) RSP-1098 meaning audio features should be implemented:
i. Full DVD-A bitstream implementation
ii. Full SACD bitstream implementation
iii.Full implementation of HD flavors of Dolby and DTS.
I would like to see audio features, as I described in the 3 items above, added to RVE-1060 or, better yet, a replacement DSP processor to the RSP-1098 to implement the audio features and some switching.

Regards

Unfortunately an HDMI upgrade for the 1098 would be HDMI switching only, like the 1057. No audio support or scaling. If something like that wouldn't help, you wouldn't have to worry about bringing your entire 1098 to the states.

Perhaps once Rotel has some R&D with the new decoders we might see a substantial upgrade or add-on piece. Right now there's no plans for a new 1098 model. Keep in mind the 1098 is a higher end piece that didn't have a previous model. With the price increase of the 1069, we may not see a 1098 replacement as it might have to be priced out of where Rotel is comfortable.

Kevin D.

[HiRez]

Thanks for the info Kevin,

I guess an updated version (with the complete audio implementation and 1080p scaling with a brand name video scaling chip) of the RVE-1060 would be an option.

Of course, it needs to be price competetive given that there is a new pre/pro from another company that has all this including Reon-VX HQV video chip.

Do you know of any plans for a successor of RVE-1060 ?

By the way what is the MSRP on the RVE-1060?

Rotel should offer a way to grow their flagship product.

Regards

[Henk]

Originally posted by Kevin D:You won't get any information applied over a video signal if that's what you wanted (volume, surround mode, etc). If that's what you were wanting, I don't recall anywhere in the manual that would infer that would happen.

The online manual (page 15) states: " The RVE-1060 is designed to fully integrate with Rotel surround sound processors.... . (A) video connection must be made from the surround processor to INPUT 4 on the RVE-1060 so that the surround processor's On-Screen Display can be passed on to the TV monitor.". The way I understand this is that all the on screen information that the RSP1098 will display on a TV monitor (including volume, surround mode, etc, all part of the processor's OSD), will be displayed via the RVE-1060, provided the required video connection is made to the RVE-1060.

All the on screen info of my RSP 1098 (including volume, surround modes, etc) display on my TV monitor, except when using a a progressive video signal from the processor's component video inputs. This is all explained in the RSP 1098 manual. Accordingly, I get all the on screen info when viewing a satellite source (576i) on the TV monitor via the RSP 1098. Not so with the RVE-1060: it does display the processor's "main" on-screen info (ie the menu where settings are changed) but generally no volume, surround or other information is displayed over any video signal. I say "generally" because on occasion the RVE does display the info over a 1080i signal that I input from my DVD player. Problem is that it appears to be a stroke of luck: the moment I switch to another input on the RVE and back, the OSD is gone again.

[hifiguymi]

Just an FYI on the RSP-1098 and HDMI. I just received a letter from Rotel and they have made a running change to the RSP-1098 and it now includes a three in and one out HDMI switcher. It does, in fact, replace the S-video board so there is no S-video on new RSP-1098's (not that S-video matters anyway). It DOES NOT include any audio support or scaling via the HDMI inputs. It functions like the RSX-1057 does, just switching and nothing else.

There may be an upgrade for existing RSP-1098's in the first quarter of 2008 but right now they are putting all of the boards in new units. Film at 11:00 on that.

Eric

[dmcgowan]

Now that would be a great upgrade...

[thunderstorm77]

Awesome! Do you know if it's a lot of work changing the board, or is that something similar to changing a PCI-unit in a PC?

[mjb]

There may be an upgrade for existing RSP-1098's in the first quarter of 2008 but right now they are putting all of the boards in new units.

This is excellent news :T

Hopefully some "I only bought it because I could upgrade it" people will be happier now.

[Kevin D]

Well I guess it's official now.. I can quit being obscure. Adding the current upgrade board to an older 1098 requires modifications to the chassis and software. That's probably why they're holding off offering an upgrade, trying to work all the details out of how they would work the logistics out.

Kevin D.

[HiRez]

Eric,
Thanks for the heads-up.
Any word on an upgraded RVE-1060 or a successor ?
Do you happen to know the MSRP on the RVE-1060 ?
Regards

[HiRez]

Kevin,

Thank you for your response.
Are you 100% certain that it wil require chassis work? Since it is only a switch (hdmi signal will get routed to another hdmi port on the same board), it sounds like new software to control the new board (to tell it which port to route to) may be sufficient.
Since they are already putting these boards in the new 1098s, I would think they are of the same form factor.
Could you please clarify why chassis work may be needed ?

Regards

[Kevin D]

so that the surround processor's On-Screen Display can be passed on to the TV monitor.".

Well the statement is true, all OSD information can be passed to the monitor, just not overlayed on top. I can see the the confusion if you took that statement by itself, but the rest of the manual lay it out. Perhaps your dealer should have explained it better before they sold it.

HiRez: Retail on the 1060 is around $1500 I believe. My guess on the chassis modification is due to increased power requirements. Passively switching s-video probably doesn't take as much power as actively switching HDMI.

Kevin D.

[hifiguymi]

Eric,
Thanks for the heads-up.
Any word on an upgraded RVE-1060 or a successor ?
Do you happen to know the MSRP on the RVE-1060 ?
Regards

No word on an upgrade to the RVE-1060 right now.

The retail is $1200.00 US for the RVE-1060.

Eric

[Henk]

Well the statement is true, all OSD information can be passed to the monitor, just not overlayed on top. I can see the the confusion if you took that statement by itself, but the rest of the manual lay it out. Perhaps your dealer should have explained it better before they sold it.

....
Kevin D.

"....but the rest of the manual lay it out."

Please clarify: unless I missed it, I could find nothing in the online manual explaining expressly or by implication that the RVE 1060 cannot send the temporary OSD (ie volume, surrounds, etc) to the monitor overlayed on a video signal.
I would certainly have liked my dealer to explain the issue to me at the time of sale - assuming of course he could reasonably have been expected to know the facts, which I cannot say. What I do know is that Rotel South Africa themselves were quite surprised to learn that the RVE cannot send the temporary OSD. They were extremely helpful in trying to resolve the matter, and their representative actually came to my house to check whether I had everything set-up correctly. They then did multiple tests themselves with different Rotel processors, all delivering the same result: no temporary OSD over a video signal.

Is this a hardware issue or do you think it can perhaps be fixed with a firmware update?

[Kevin D]

Perhaps a bad choice of words on my part. Seeing how it's hooked up and setup it's easy for me to see why it doesn't do it. Basically the 1098 overlays the text on top of a video signal, if no signal is created it generates a black screen and puts the text on that. So the text is not tangible at this point, its a video signal like all other video signals. All you can set the 1060 up for is which input to pull this video signal from.

I'm not sure if this will change, even with a firmware update. I can't remember right now, but I'm pretty sure the 1060 can't even overlay it's own setup menu on top of the video. So while a lot of the display information is available in a tangible form from the serial connection, I don't think the 1060 has the ability to dynamically parse and overlay it.

How many sources do you have running through the 1060 and how are they hooked up? Are they all 576i? You could quickly get two 576i sources to have full OSD and run through the scaler if you wanted (1 component, & 1 svideo or composite). Just run the source to the right input on the 1098 and then connect the equivalent monitor out to the right input on the 1060. This way the 1098 overlays the text on top of the supplied video signal and then this combined signal gets scaled through the 1060.

You could hook up every 576i source if you added some video distribution amps (unless you can assign multiple inputs to the same source, never tried). IE, run all component signals to the 1098, let it do the switching and apply OSD, then run the 1098's monitor out to a 1x3 component video amp, running each output to component source 1-3 on the 1060. If the 1060 allows you to use the same source on multiple inputs, just run the monitor out to component 1, and assign video 1-3 to use component 1.

Hope you followed me there. I can draw a line diagram if needed..

Kevin D.

[Henk]

I can't remember right now, but I'm pretty sure the 1060 can't even overlay it's own setup menu on top of the video....

How many sources do you have running through the 1060 and how are they hooked up? Are they all 576i? You could quickly get two 576i sources to have full OSD and run through the scaler if you wanted (1 component, & 1 svideo or composite). Just run the source to the right input on the 1098 and then connect the equivalent monitor out to the right input on the 1060. This way the 1098 overlays the text on top of the supplied video signal and then this combined signal gets scaled through the 1060.


Kevin D.

Thanks for the input Kevin - much appreciated. I cannot get the 1060 to overlay its own setup menu over a video signal, but the 1060 does overlay the 1098's permanent OSD (ie setup menu) over a video signal, although there is a slight break in the signal before the 1060 "finds" the overlay.

To solve the temporary OSD issue I have reverted to running composite cables from all my devices to the RSP 1098, and a composite from the processor to vid input 4 on the 1060. To see the temporary OSD I switch to input 4 on the 1060, which is a bit of a nuisance but at least I can see what I'm doing as far as changing the temporary settings are concerned. All sources are also connected directly to the 1060 with the preferred cable (component/s-video). To make this work, one has to disconnect the 1060's vid output to the 1098's LCD screen, ie not make the connection as described in the manual.

Funny thing is that I've discovered that when I go to input 4 on the 1060 and then return to another input, the 1060 sometimes does display the temporary OSD on the other inputs overlayed on a video signal. Its as if either the 1098 and/or the 1060 then "remembers" to display the OSD over a video signal. Technically I cannot explain this though.

I suppose I can also connect the 1098 to the projector with composite and then switch the projector input from HDMI to composite to see the temporary OSD - haven't done so yet.

Apart from the 1098, I have 4 sources connected to the 1060, all 576i. Perhaps I must try hooking up everything to the 1098 with component and s-video as usual and then simply run the monitor out from the 1098 to the 1060 (component and s-video), and from the 1060 to the projector (HDMI). Source selection will then be done on the 1098 as usual, and there will be no need for the serial connection between the 1060 and the 1098. Not sure if this will affect video quality though.

Apart from the OSD issue, the 1060 is a great scaler - no 1080p, I know, but 1080i is nevertheless a great improvement over 576i, and to an extent even over 720p. Biggest improvement is when watching 576i satellite TV upscaled to 576p via the 1060. Much clearer picture, with no noise.

Henk

[HiRez]

Greetings All,

Just got back from my trip to US, and my RSP-1098 is now functioning.

The service note is : Upgraded model software and flash software. Reset microprocessor. Full function check and test run.

I am extremely pleased with Rotel USA for their fast service and courtesy. :T

I sent in only the CPU and DSP boards; not the whole unit.

Would like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread.

Regards