What Rotel will show a CEDIA

[Nolan B]

I see what you are saying and I understand. But when it all said and done receviers will do all of the processing just like when DD first came out. DD was decoded in the player first then about 2 years latter was decoded in the recevier. The new Denon 4308 will decode the new formates and the new Toshiba players will send it out.

So what will the 1069 do that the 1068 want?
Allen

The 1069 will recieve Hi Res PCM through its HDMI input which the 1068 cant. This allows someone who is watching a BD or HD DVD movie to experience the quality of the next gen sound formats. Currently the only way you can do that with the 1068 is by the analog inputs...and you only have one set of those inputs.

[nash]

The 1069 will recieve Hi Res PCM through its HDMI input which the 1068 cant. This allows someone who is watching a BD or HD DVD movie to experience the quality of the next gen sound formats. Currently the only way you can do that with the 1068 is by the analog inputs...and you only have one set of those inputs.

Exactly. This plus 1080p switching (and upscaling if you need it) is the reason I purchased a 1058. I am perfectly content with its capabilities and have no need of HDMI 1.3 or True HD decoding in the pre/pro / receiver.

Nothing is filmed in deep color (first we need the cameras, then we need the studios to start using the cameras, then we need theaters to display in deep color, etc... it's a LONG way off), so that's pretty much irrevelant. It *may* show up in game consoles before that, but it's hard to predict and may not matter if you do not use a console.

Some people think the 1058/1069 is lacking because of the inability to process the Multichannel HDMI feed, but it's fine for my needs. I don't have 7.1 and do not want to apply any EQ to the multichannel sound.

[TommyV]

Does anyone know with these new multi channel amps coming out that any of the current multi channel amps will be discontinued?

[Kevin D]

Does anyone know with these new multi channel amps coming out that any of the current multi channel amps will be discontinued?

No plans right now. The RMB-1095 is supposed to increase in price due to increased copper and shipping prices.

Kevin D.

[EAmin]

IMHO the biggest problem with HDMI is Marketing and what it has made people believe. The phrase "HDMI 1.3" reminds me of "Monster Cables"

Entertaining topic. Confusing but entertaining. But I thought we were all supposed be excited about 1.3 because we'll be able to enjoy enhancements like DTS-HD Master Audio. With this said, I don't understand why people would be content with uncompressed PCM when you can have exactly the same copy as what the studio mixed?

I would love to replace my 1098 with another Rotel processor. But the Sherwood Newcastles, Denons, Onkyos with 1.3 make it hard to wait for.

[apodaca]

Some people think the 1058/1069 is lacking because of the inability to process the Multichannel HDMI feed, but it's fine for my needs. I don't have 7.1 and do not want to apply any EQ to the multichannel sound.

The RSX-1056 does the same thing through the analog inputs. So why switch to HDMI and pay 2K ? to save a few cables??? One issue with the 1056 generation was their lack of multichannel input support. Specifically bass management and to a lesser extent PLIIx and XS post processing. The 1058 lacks these very same features on the HDMI input for PCM sources at high rez.

You may not care to be at the mercy of a player when doing bass management, but many here have complicated speaker setups with center, fronts/mains and surrounds all having a different -3dB point or crossover. If Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Harman Kardon, Lexicon and even Outlaw audio can do it (and have been doing it for a long time) there is no reason for Rotel not to. Rotel is being lazy plain and simple.

[mattburk]

where is the Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS HD decoding capabilities and hdmi 1.3?

[Nolan B]

Entertaining topic. Confusing but entertaining. But I thought we were all supposed be excited about 1.3 because we'll be able to enjoy enhancements like DTS-HD Master Audio. With this said, I don't understand why people would be content with uncompressed PCM when you can have exactly the same copy as what the studio mixed?

Uncompressed PCM is the same as DTS-HD which is the exact same as TrueHD.

Lossless is lossless.

This is not DVD where DTS is clearly better then DD.

[nash]

The RSX-1056 does the same thing through the analog inputs. So why switch to HDMI and pay 2K ?

True, my 1066 worked fine with the analog input. But I have both blu ray and hd dvd, so I can only use one with uncompressed audio on my 1066. With the 1058, I can use both over HDMI. The combined audio/video switching is handy, and removing 12 analog cables (plus a few digital ones) is nice too. That alone could save you a few hundred dollars (or more) if you were building a system from scratch.

[Nolan B]

kevin,

Did you happe to pose the question about a HD DVD or BD player to rotel? What would stop Rotel from simply rebaging the Toshiba XA2? With brands like Integra and Onkyo announcing players is it still far from Rotel entering into this market?

[BasementJax]

Here's my CEDIA report.

RSP-1069 & RMB-1076 should be shipping by the end of the month

Kevin D.

Looks interesting. Kevin or others, do you know for sure if this unit supports OSD overlay over any source (HDMI input @ 1080i, etc.), or is it still limited?

[Kevin D]

kevin,

Did you happe to pose the question about a HD DVD or BD player to rotel? What would stop Rotel from simply rebaging the Toshiba XA2? With brands like Integra and Onkyo announcing players is it still far from Rotel entering into this market?

Looking into it, but nothing soon. They're really waiting on a winner or decent dual-format drive.

Kevin D.

[Kevin D]

Looks interesting. Kevin or others, do you know for sure if this unit supports OSD overlay over any source (HDMI input @ 1080i, etc.), or is it still limited?

Haven't seen for myself, but I've been told the OSD is applied in the scaler so it is available at any resolution and input.

Kevin D.

[Andrew M Ward]

You have recivers at half the price of the 1069 that can pass 1.3 and decode the new formates.

Umm...
the only thing the Rotel Receiver is not doing (differently than 1.3) is converting a matrix from 5.1 to 7.1...

other than that

Rotel receivers do every thing exactly the same way...

they take the HD Audio signal and process it at 24/192 from the player... with all the cross-over and sub woofer settings in tact... all that 1.3 provides "better" is a matrixed 5.1 to 7.1 and future color depth potential..

nothing else... (nothing)

8)

[RebelMan]

You may not care to be at the mercy of a player when doing bass management, but many here have complicated speaker setups with center, fronts/mains and surrounds all having a different -3dB point or crossover. If Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Harman Kardon, Lexicon and even Outlaw audio can do it (and have been doing it for a long time) there is no reason for Rotel not to. Rotel is being lazy plain and simple.

Agreed! The lack of HDMI bass management features in the digital domain and at the processor level is an absolute deal breaker. Performing bass mananagement at the player level can be a major inconvience and sound quality can suffer terribly with most mass market options. Rotel's design to pass-through HD HDMI signals seems like a conflict of interest with respect to their philosophy.

[Blindamood]

Pricing of new amps?

Well, the new 5-channel RMB-1085 looks pretty interesting, as a possible replacement for the RMB-1075.

What I don't understand, though, is the pricing of this amp vs. the RMB-1077. With the 1085 (priced at $1199) you get 5 channels at roughly $240 per channel. With the 1077, each channel costs about $285 (with the new lower price of $2000). This differential does not make sense to me...

Of course, I suppose if you need 7 channels, the 1077 is more cost-effective than buying the RMB-1085 plus the new RB-1072--total $2098--so maybe that is part of the rationale. So, if you need only 5 channels, the 1085 appears to be a pretty good value.

[gusbuf]

Single cable between pre/pro and multichannel amp?

Not as technically savvy as most on this board, but still a big Rotel/B & W fan. My question is, do these new pre/pro and class-D amps allow for multichannel audio on single cable between the two components? I used to own an RTC-965 which was paired with an RB985mkII amp. I was able to hook up the audio with a single DB-25 cable, which was a simple, clean connection, and audio sounded great. Currently have an RSP1068 and the same RB985mkII connected with 5 long, individual cables for each channel. My cabinet is a mess in the back with all the cables. Can these new components allow for an HDMI connection betwwen pre/pro and amp, carrying only the multichannel surround sound, thus eliminating the need for 5-7 individual cables? Thanks for any info.

[george_k]

I'd love to get my hands on a 5ch 200watt ice variant, can't wait till they release those.

Even better (for me that is) would be a 3ch version to use for powering a center and surrounds. For the mains I'd rather find a separate that is more geared toward music than HT.

[Nolan B]

all that 1.3 provides "better" is a matrixed 5.1 to 7.1 and future color depth potential..

nothing else... (nothing)

8)

I dont think that is correct. Can you please comfirm the 1.3 is some how needed to matrix 5.1 to 7.1. HDMI 1.1 can transport hi rez PCM to the player no problem, once its in the player its up to it (not HDMI 1.3) to matrix the audio.

no?

[Kevin D]

What I don't understand, though, is the pricing of this amp vs. the RMB-1077. With the 1085 (priced at $1199) you get 5 channels at roughly $240 per channel. With the 1077, each channel costs about $285 (with the new lower price of $2000). This differential does not make sense to me...

The 1077 may not be dropping to $2000. Rumor at this point. The reason for the price difference is the 1077 is based on the "200w" ICE modules (that produce 200 watts at 4ohm) while everything else is based on the cheaper 100w ICE modules (that produce 100w at 8ohm).

Rotel might drop the price on the 1077 or they might redesign it to run on the new 100w modules, but they will probably leave everything as is.

Kevin D.

[Kevin D]

Can these new components allow for an HDMI connection betwwen pre/pro and amp, carrying only the multichannel surround sound, thus eliminating the need for 5-7 individual cables? Thanks for any info.

No. Amps only have analog connections. The DB25 connector was an idea from THX that didn't take off.

Kevin D.

[mike c]

The 1077 may not be dropping to $2000. Rumor at this point. The reason for the price difference is the 1077 is based on the "200w" ICE modules (that produce 200 watts at 4ohm) while everything else is based on the cheaper 100w ICE modules (that produce 100w at 8ohm).
Kevin D.

so what's the 4 ohm output of the new ICE units?

edit: 180w? why did they downgrade? pricing consideration?

[george_k]

New modules are listed here

http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/speaker/ASX2_SERIES

http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/speaker/ASH7_SERIES

[Kevin D]

so what's the 4 ohm output of the new ICE units?

edit: 180w? why did they downgrade? pricing consideration?

By a lot of accounts, the new modules sound better then the old one's. Perhaps they felt the decreased cost with improved sound was worth it.

Kevin D.

[Andrew M Ward]

I dont think that is correct. Can you please comfirm the 1.3 is some how needed to matrix 5.1 to 7.1. HDMI 1.1 can transport hi rez PCM to the player no problem, once its in the player its up to it (not HDMI 1.3) to matrix the audio.

no?

Good question...
I'll check (Wednesday)

[eelco74]

I have a couple of pictures from CEDI

I am curious what the box on the bottom of the rack is. The one with the blue screen. It has the Rotel logo, but I do not know this model.

[Pez]

I am curious what the box on the bottom of the rack is. The one with the blue screen. It has the Rotel logo, but I do not know this model.

Its an RLC-1040, the smaller of the two power conditioners Rotel sells.

[Blindamood]

Its an RLC-1040, the smaller of the two power conditioners Rotel sells.

And both of the Rotel conditioners are essentially repackaged APC units (this one is equivalent to the H15).

[mike c]

By a lot of accounts, the new modules sound better then the old one's. Perhaps they felt the decreased cost with improved sound was worth it.

Kevin D.

thanks Kevin, what makes these new ones sound better? better THD? extends higher?

[Nuthed]

I wish the studios would start putting 7.1 soundtracks on BD and HD-DVD discs. They all seem to be 5.1. I understand that not everyone has a 7.1 system, but we are selling and installing more all the time.

Eric

I hope they keep 'em at 5.1, because as you said not everyone has 7.1 now or ever intends to. If people think its that important than all company's should include modes to matrix the additional 2 channels.

Just out of curriosity, what is wrong with 5.1 channel surround sound?

[hifiguymi]

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with 5.1 channel surround sound?

There is nothing wrong with 5.1. Done correctly however, a 7.1 system adds depth and width to the rear sound stage. If the movie has a 6.1 soundtrack (the best available on DVD), the added channel creates an extra dimension of fun. That's what all this is about.

Eric