What Rotel will show a CEDIA

[hifiguymi]

I talked to my rep today and there will be a couple of new products shown at CEDIA.

They will show the replacement for the RSP-1068 called the RSP-1069. It will be based on the RSX-1058 and will have a retail around $2200.00 US. That means 4 HDMI inputs, 1080P scaling, three extra zone outputs (four total including the main zone), the new TI DSP engine, etc. No word on when it will ship, but that will be announced soon.

They will also have both a 5 channel and a 6 channel version of the RMB-1077. He didn't have exact model numbers or pricing, but he thought the 5 channel will be around $1500.00 US.

I'll follow up soon with more specifics when I get them.

Eric

[Nolan B]

I talked to my rep today and there will be a couple of new products shown at CEDIA.

They will show the replacement for the RSP-1068 called the RSP-1069.

great news! just what I wanted to hear. Any chance if you can ask if it will process PCM 5.1 into 7.1. As it stand now thee 1058 can not.

[hifiguymi]

I'll check with him. I asked him about that issue with the RSX-1058 and he didn't have the answer himself. He's going to check into it further and let me know.

Eric

[lvhung]

2.2K oH
tHATS IS NOT MY CHOICE

[Nolan B]

I'll check with him. I asked him about that issue with the RSX-1058 and he didn't have the answer himself. He's going to check into it further and let me know.

Eric

If the new SSP from rotel can not process hi rez PCM from 5.1 - 7.1 through the HDMI inputs can you find out a reason why?

Limitation of Pro Logic?
Limitation of Rotel?
Rotel forgot to add it or had a reason not to?
Can a firmware update fix it?


****I answered some onf my own questins here with some info I found.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?p=356377#post356377

[hifiguymi]

He doesn't know if the RSP-1069 will be able to do it or not. This same point has been brought up to him by more than one person so he is going to talk to the engineers. If it is an oversight in the RSX-1058 I hope they can get it added to the RSP-1069 (and have an uprade for the RSX-1058 as well). He will keep me informed on what will happen with it and I will post any info I get.

I wish the studios would start putting 7.1 soundtracks on BD and HD-DVD discs. They all seem to be 5.1. I understand that not everyone has a 7.1 system, but we are selling and installing more all the time.

Eric

[Nolan B]

He doesn't know if the RSP-1069 will be able to do it or not. This same point has been brought up to him by more than one person so he is going to talk to the engineers. If it is an oversight in the RSX-1058 I hope they can get it added to the RSP-1069 (and have an uprade for the RSX-1058 as well). He will keep me informed on what will happen with it and I will post any info I get.

I wish the studios would start putting 7.1 soundtracks on BD and HD-DVD discs. They all seem to be 5.1. I understand that not everyone has a 7.1 system, but we are selling and installing more all the time.

Eric

As I understand it some recievers can process 5.1 PCM from HDMI to 7.1, but its yet still a step above that where a reciever can accept full 7.1 PCM.

I am not thinking the rotel unit is going to be able to do it all.

I really hope thou.

[hifiguymi]

What some companies are doing is something like DPLIIx or dtsNEO6 on top of the 5.1 PCM stream to add the surround back channels. It's sort of like THX, it a post processing issue. On the RSX-1058 I really have no idea if Rotel just missed doing that, or if they are taking the purist approach and don't want to mess with the PCM signal. Time will tell because they are now aware that it is something people want. Again, I'll post any info I may get from my rep when I get it.

Eric

[Dmantis]

As far as 7.1 goes, not many people at all have it.
I have been Installing for 9 years and I can just about remember all the 7.1 systems I have Installed. I remember when it first came out, I ran out and picked up the Denon Avr3801 and went 7.1 right away. I pushed my clients to go 7.1 when everyone started releasing Processors for the format. Then software became a problem. Hardly no one was releasing it. Many movies I expected to go 6.1/7.1 didn't.
Funny today I only run 5.1. Even when I watch a 6.1 movie , I have no desire to add in my surround back channels. I even own another pair of Dynaudio 42w's for that duty.
I'm very excited to get a new Rotel Processor. I'm hoping they bring it up to date. As an Installer , I see all the other brands coming into play. Pioneer Elite Just released all there new receivers with 1.3a hdmi switching and all the current processing going on today. If they made a Preamp out of there new vsx94, I would buy it. Hell I have considered going with it and using my Rotel amps ( I own Dynaudio speakers which are 4 ohm and would clip out the Pioneer Elite amps).
Exciting time in audio and video with everything going on. I'm totally into Blue Ray and HD DVD. I also love/hate HDMI and want nothing more then everything switched though a new processor , cleaner head end and I can get rid of alot of wires.

We shall see what Rotel releases for there new Preamps. I'm crossing my fingers.

[mattburk]

I have 7.1, that feature would be a big plus for me.

[linuxtx]

Press releases from Rotel after CEDIA:

RSP-1069

RMB-1076 and RMB-1085 amps

[Ted]

Hmmm, do I sense a new amp and maybe pre-amp in my set-up next year??

[pinchofsalt]

I wonder what flavor of HDMI will be supported by the 1069? Inquiring minds want to see the spec sheet...

[Pez]

According to the press release the 1069 seems to be lacking a few important things - 1080p and next gen sound. Hopefully I read it wrong because how can they claim to be state of the art when you can find these features in just about most new mass market receivers. Other than the inlcusion of hdmi inputs I am having a hard time with this as I was hoping to get one. I would be the last person to bash rotel since I love my rotel gear but I may just have to buy a receiver to use as a pre/pro instead of getting this. This seems more like a 1068.5 to me. Bummer. Hopefully someone can shed more light on this.

[hifiguymi]

The RSP-1068 is based on the RSX-1058 so it will do 1080P. It even says that in the press release. As far as the "next gen sound" I think you mean DD+, Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD and dtsHD MA. For BD and HD-DVD it just doesn't matter if the processor decodes those formats. As long as it has audio support, which the RSP-1069 does have, from the HDMI that is all you need. BD and HD-DVD players will never output those formats in their compressed form. The players will decode those streams and output multichannel PCM. There maybe other formats in the future that will, but for now all you need is to have PDM audio support on the HDMI inputs.

Eric

[hifiguymi]

As far as the ICE Power amps go, the prices are correct and the RMB-1077 is going to drop in price. I don't have a date on the chage, but it will drop $500.00 to $2000.00 US.

Eric

[rick c]

those icepower amps look great but really how do they compare to the ss rotel amps like the 1080 for example.I've tried to look into what experiences there have been with specifically the rb1072 but not much out there.

[Mark_C.]

I sure would like to see an ICE 5x200 wpc amp, something between the 100 wpc channel 5- and 7-channel amps and the 500 wpc mono and stereo amps.

[resperc]

+1 for the 5x200 Ice-power amp idea. I am waiting for one of these as well. Does anyone have any info regarding the possibility of Rotel producing this product?

[Pez]

The RSP-1068 is based on the RSX-1058 so it will do 1080P. It even says that in the press release. As far as the "next gen sound" I think you mean DD+, Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD and dtsHD MA. For BD and HD-DVD it just doesn't matter if the processor decodes those formats. As long as it has audio support, which the RSP-1069 does have, from the HDMI that is all you need. BD and HD-DVD players will never output those formats in their compressed form. The players will decode those streams and output multichannel PCM. There maybe other formats in the future that will, but for now all you need is to have PDM audio support on the HDMI inputs.

Eric

I thought the press release said 1080i? Like I said, hopefully I just missed that part. As for next gen sound, I just meant the ability to accept the signal over hdmi as i know the sound processing will be done in the player. Looks like I totally missed the boat when reading the press release.

[Pez]

I just read the press release for third time and now I feel like an idiot, I missed the 1080p the first two times.

As for the mutli-zone feature, does anyone know if the sources have to be analog like the 1068?

[hifiguymi]

The ICE Power amp line will expand. I know Rotel is working on 200 watt per channel amps now that a 200 module is available. No time table as to when they will be a real product however.

As far as the multi-room outputs go you do need to send an analog signal into the RSP-1069 for them to work.

Eric

[Nolan B]

The ICE Power amp line will expand. I know Rotel is working on 200 watt per channel amps now that a 200 module is available. No time table as to when they will be a real product however.

As far as the multi-room outputs go you do need to send an analog signal into the RSP-1069 for them to work.

Eric

Is your guy still looking into the ability to process 5.1 PCM from HDMI? Are the engineers able to tell it its able to be upgraded by firmware if it doesnt current do it?

thanks

[WI Rotel]

Damn it there goes my 1068 I guess i'll give it a year and swap it when I swap my projection TV for a plasma. I do like the 1068 but not being able to overlay the OSD or messages when using component video is a hassle. I did just upgrade to 7.1 and can attest that it is a significant step from 5.1 ( I was a skeptic) although there are really not additional "channels" the info that is downmixed to the rears from the surrounds does enhance the surround a lot, it is very effective and convincing for music or video.
BTW I stuck with the conventional amps: 1095 for the surrounds 1080 for the mains with outstanding fidelity (as expected). Total price for amplification 3K. To my ear the 1080 is even better than the 1095 for stereo only. I think that its higher damping factor cleans up the lower mids better on my XT4's.

[crowland]

"24-bit/192 kHz digital-to-analog converters (from industry leader Burr Brown)". Is that an upgrade over the ones in 1068 and if so do you thing it would be an improvement over the allready great sound? Really interested..

[nash]

For those "in the know" - what would be the physical difference between a 1058 and the 1069? Clearly the amp gets removed, but somehow it ends up costing $200 more? What is added/upgraded to justify this?

I'm curious whether it'd be worth upgrading from a 1058 to a 1069 if you are using a 1058 as a preamp like I am.

[Pez]

For those "in the know" - what would be the physical difference between a 1058 and the 1069? Clearly the amp gets removed, but somehow it ends up costing $200 more? What is added/upgraded to justify this?

I'm curious whether it'd be worth upgrading from a 1058 to a 1069 if you are using a 1058 as a preamp like I am.

Thats because we live in the US. Pre/pro's are always more expensive, its not that way in other parts of the world (this is based off a post I read on this forum some time ago).

[davewolfs]

Looks like this will not support HDMI 1.3.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/06/rotel-intros-rsp-1069-processor-preamp/

[Nolan B]

Looks like this will not support HDMI 1.3.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/06...cessor-preamp/

which means nothing.

[Allend]

which means nothing.

There is a lot more to 1.3 than just the audio side. True deep color 1 cable hook up, and if you need more than one multi channel plug in, most pre/pros want have more than. Then the cost at $2200.00 isn't cheap but for this price I could get the Denon 4308 which does everything listed above and then some. Also the new Sheerwood stuff will beable to do a lot of this too and don't forget about Emotive they say their new pre/pros will have 1.3. So in this price range Rotel needs to look at the competion which I am sure they will do or have done.

Allen

[Nolan B]

There is a lot more to 1.3 than just the audio side. True deep color

This is something no one can experience today, and its very possible no one will every be able to experience this.

1 cable hook up

You can have this with version 1.1. Full 1080p video and Lossless PCM audio.

I dont mean to pick on your post, but HDMI 1.3 (or 1.3a 1.3b 1.3v) are 95% marketing and 5% possibilites of things yet to come...if ever.

If you want to take full advantage of the next gen formats then all you need is a reciever which can accept PCM audio and pass 1080p video by HDMI 1.1.

[Pez]

The press release says available third quater 2007, does that mean its going to be released in the next few weeks? The third quarter is almost over.

I am very excitied about the three zone feature. I just bought a house and would love to add some speakers to the garage and kitchen (in addition to the patio speakers I just hooked up - nothing like hanging out in the pool listening to a baseball game).

As for HDMI 1.3, I used to be on that bandwagon. But as long as I can get lossless PCM and 1080p the verison of HDMI doesnt mean much to me. And for deep color doesnt the TV have to be 1.3 as well? Are there even any that are? I am already amazed at how my TV looks with a 1080p singal and have no desire to upgrade for my TV for a few years. The 1069 is back on my shopping list, possibly an early birthday present to myself.

[hifiguymi]

The deep color issue is a non issue. There are no formats available that will do deep color. BD and HD-DVD are 8 bit formats and that is their limit. They will never be able to use the deep color capabilities of HDMI1.3a. There may be formats in the future that will use it, but who knows when, or if, that will happen. Also the TV needs HDMI1.3a and has to be capable of displaying that much information. Most TV's can't do 8 bit very well much less 12 or more.

The one thing that will be nice about HDMI1.3a is the auto lip sync. In order for that to work you need a source, processor, and display that are all HDMI1.3a. So unless someone is going to replace everything in their system all at once it won't matter to most people.

Eric

Edited for spelling.

[Nolan B]

But as long as I can get lossless PCM and 1080p the verison of HDMI doesnt mean much to me. And for deep color doesnt the TV have to be 1.3 as well? Are there even any that are? f.

not only does your TV have to be able to accept it, the disc has to have it. Anyone wantto wager a guess at how many disc out of all the ones on BD and HD DVD have it? :W

[c0v3rr1d3]

some info on what rotel is showing at cedia right now

http://www.slashgear.com/cedia-2007-rotel-introduce-audiophile-rackmount-poweramps-surround-processor-067217.php

[RebelMan]

The deep color issue is a non issue. There are no formats available that will do deep color. BD and HD-DVD are 8 bit formats and that is their limit. They will never be able to use the deep color capabilities of HDMI1.3a. There may be formats in the future that will use it, but who knows when, or if, that will happen. Also the TV needs HDMI1.3a and has to be capable of displaying that much information. Most TV's can't do 8 bit very will much less 12 or more.

Eric, if BD and HD-DVD were only encoded to 8 bit color depths then that would be a problem. That would only amount to 256 shades of color. The human eye can distingish up to 24 bits (16 million shades) of color and most displays and media today are capable of that. The 8 or 10 or 12 bits of some flat panel displays pertains to grayscale levels and video processing.

36 bit x.v.Color or "Deep Color" is the new color space standard for HDTVs. It's true that no pre-recorded media is presently available with deep color support but more manufacturers are including the new standard in their hardware. My PS3 and plasma TV already support it. Now I just need the media to enable it. But having said that your are correct in that Deep Color is a non-issue for the moment.

[hifiguymi]

James, have you read this before? I have heard from day one that BD and HD-DVD are 8 bit formats, but this is a very well written article that explains it. It also covers the issue of audio and lip sync with HDMI1.3a.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/High-Def_FAQ/Joshua_Zyber/High-Def_FAQ:_Is_HDMI_1.3_Really_Necessary/853

Eric

[Kevin D]

Here's my CEDIA report.

RSP-1069 & RMB-1076 should be shipping by the end of the month

RMB-1085 should be shipping by two months.

200 watt per channel versions are waiting on the ICE team to have a finished module for Rotel to design around. The 1077 uses their current 200 watt modules that were rated at 4ohms. The RB-1082 and new 100 watt amps use a different ICE module. When ICE has a 200 watt module that produces 200w at 8ohms, expect Rotel to start testing some new models.

RSX-1067 may have a sister model based on the RSX-1058 later this year, but most likely it won't be touched until the HDMI 1.3 line comes out (which will be a while)

Processing audio over HDMI with the new products. Bitstream signals (regular Dolby, DTS) and 2ch PCM (44.1khz, 48khz) can go through the normal digital processing like any optical/coaxial input. Any high-res PCM signal goes through unprocessed like the multi-channel inputs. The PCM signal would have been down-converted in order to go through the processing, and Rotel felt it was best to leave the sound in the high-res format going right into the DAC's.

Kevin D.

[Nolan B]

The PCM signal would have been down-converted in order to go through the processing, and Rotel felt it was best to leave the sound in the high-res format going right into the DAC's.

Kevin D.

hey Kevin,
Why would it "have" to be down-converted? They almost word it as if it wasnt possible, or as if its a limitation of PL11x. There are other recievers and processors which can process hi res PCM.

On a side note. Does anyone know if DVD A on the RDV 1092 can be sent by HDMI as PCM?

[Allend]

This is something no one can experience today, and its very possible no one will every be able to experience this.



You can have this with version 1.1. Full 1080p video and Lossless PCM audio.
.

All version or I should say all companys don't pass the PCM audio you have to use multichannel in to get that.

I dont mean to pick on your post, but HDMI 1.3 (or 1.3a 1.3b 1.3v) are 95% marketing and 5% possibilites of things yet to come...if ever.

If you want to take full advantage of the next gen formats then all you need is a reciever which can accept PCM audio and pass 1080p video by HDMI 1.1.

You have recivers at half the price of the 1069 that can pass 1.3 and decode the new formates. With the next genaration of Toshbie HD DVD players coming out you have players that can send the signal out. I myself at this time don't need hdmi. But if I was going to spend $2000.00 or more for a new receiver or pre/pro I would want it to handle 1.3. I am not one who upgrades every other year. My main processor has been a Denon 5700 for the last 9 years. I have used different amps on my system and I have been looking for my next upgrade to a pre/pro. My tv is only a few years old and it was the last one zenith made before DVI. So I want to get a few more years out of it before I replace it. So when I replace my 5700 next year I want it to last at least 5 years if not another 10 years.

The truth be told if they ever get HDMI to just a plug and play state it will be good for everybody else that just buys a TV and dvd player to watch movies or tv with the best picture with them doing nothing but hitting the power button.
Allen

[Nolan B]

All version or I should say all companys don't pass the PCM audio you have to use multichannel in to get that.

That is true. The player (if the player can) must decode the audio format and output it via its analog outputs.

You have recivers at half the price of the 1069 that can pass 1.3 and decode the new formates.

I am not sure you have this right. What do you mean by "pass 1.3"? HDMI 1.3 is not needed for the next gen HD DVD and BD formats, and any reciever and processor which can process the new formats are basically useless as "advanced content" dictates that the audio must be decoded in the player. This means that we only need a reciever or processor which can accpet PCM. You only need HDMI 1.1 for this. I think the 1069 @ 2k offers good value IMO.

With the next genaration of Toshbiba HD DVD players coming out you have players that can send the signal out.

This is not totally possible or needed, becuase advanced content still dictates the player must decode the audio, and Dolby Digital Plus or THD is not likely to sound any better if its decoded in the player and sent via HDMI or sent direct to the reciever/pro to decode

I myself at this time don't need hdmi. But if I was going to spend $2000.00 or more for a new receiver or pre/pro I would want it to handle 1.3.

I really think you are confusing HDMI 1.3 with being able to watch 1080p and listen to hires PCM. HDMI 1.3 is not needed nor relavent at this time.

The truth be told if they ever get HDMI to just a plug and play state it will be good for everybody else that just buys a TV and dvd player to watch movies or tv with the best picture with them doing nothing but hitting the power button.

HDMI is a nightmare, some say it will never be 100%. I will say that today its ok for plug and play to simpy watch 1080p and pass hi res PCM.


IMHO the biggest problem with HDMI is Marketing and what it has made people believe. The phrase "HDMI 1.3" reminds me of "Monster Cables"

[Allend]

I see what you are saying and I understand. But when it all said and done receviers will do all of the processing just like when DD first came out. DD was decoded in the player first then about 2 years latter was decoded in the recevier. The new Denon 4308 will decode the new formates and the new Toshiba players will send it out.

So what will the 1069 do that the 1068 want?
Allen

[RebelMan]

James, have you read this before? I have heard from day one that BD and HD-DVD are 8 bit formats, but this is a very well written article that explains it. It also covers the issue of audio and lip sync with HDMI1.3a

Ah, we have a misunderstanding of semantics. You are referring to per pixel bit lengths and I am referring to full color bit lengths. 8 bits per RGB pixels is 24 bits. It is true that the Blu-ray specification currently only supports 24+8 bits RBG (alpha). But I suspect when Blu-ray discs include Deep Color support an addendum to the Blu-ray specification will coincide.

[RebelMan]

Any high-res PCM signal goes through unprocessed like the multi-channel inputs. The PCM signal would have been down-converted in order to go through the processing, and Rotel felt it was best to leave the sound in the high-res format going right into the DAC's.

Are you certain of this Kevin? Are you saying bass management, time delays, offsets and post processing of any multi-channel modes like DPLIIx are not supported with hirez HDMI PCM signals? This would be a major deficit if this is true.

[G. Martin]

Cedia

I have a couple of pictures from CEDI