Very Disappionted

[BluChief]

Yesterday I took delivery on a RC1070, a RCC1055 and a RT1084. The RCC1055 was a "B" stock on loan until the new units become available. I connected all of this to my existing 2 Adcom GFA555II amps bridged @ 600 watts each to drive a pair of OHM 300 speakers.
First thing I noticed was how ear piercing bright the sound was although the music was very detailed. Also found that at low listening levels the low end was very weak. Adjusted the contour but not much difference. Dealer claims this will change after a long burn in which I find difficult to accept with my existing equipment being well broke in.
On top of this within one hour of playing music the RCC1055 started skipping,
I could see the counter going backwards then forwards, switch to another CD. Finally it would not recognize any CD.
I understand that Rotel is curently correcting the CD problems but it looks like it will be several months from now at least. But my biggest disappointment is the sound quality. My old Adcom GCD700 player and GTP500II has a very clean, warm and powerful sound. I am ready to take everything back at this point but I don't think that dealer will do that. So I am looking for some direction in the matter, any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Ken

[soundhound]

Every new piece of Rotel gear I owned (including their amps) sounded very sterile for about the first 3 months, and then relaxed very nicely. They really do blossom with some run time on them.

[gd]

You understand that the 1055 has had performance problems that are in the process of being resolved, so that's one issue.

Sound quality is subjective, so any exchange with the retailer probably can't done on a 'this-sounds-bad' basis... it sounds harsh to you, but – if it's working properly – it is deliberately tweaked to sound as it does, and may be deemed appropriate by others... the only way to return for refund is to establish that policy beforehand... and few retailers can afford a try-an-buy policy, as returned gear is instantly devalued.

I will submit this, and others may disagree strongly... I've owned my Rotel 900-series integrated and CD player for over 10 years... my initial impression was that it was thin-sounding and 2-dimensional... after a couple months, it sounded right... and while anyone should acknowledge that brain-related familiarity plays a role, maybe even a large one, I would still insist in my case that the gear did indeed 'smooth out' and become genuinely musical after a break-in period.

So... no real advice for simply returning the gear, all you can do is try... maybe play the reliability card of the RCC1055... the only real advice I have is to do homework prior to purchase: audition, negotiate return terms, etc...

Furthermore, it seems the Rotel gear you selected was a sideways move at best... your older Adcom gear is very respectable.

In addition to putting a good 100 hours break-in time on the new gear, you might try experimenting with Rotel CDP into Adcom pre, and Adcom CDP into Rotel pre, and see if there is any difference or improvement... maybe only one Rotel component is coming up short for you... if that's the case, you might have better luck returning only that one item.

[peterS]

Yesterday I took delivery on a RC1070, a RCC1055 and a RT1084. The RCC1055 was a "B" stock on loan until the new units become available. I connected all of this to my existing 2 Adcom GFA555II amps bridged @ 600 watts each to drive a pair of OHM 300 speakers.
First thing I noticed was how ear piercing bright the sound was although the music was very detailed. Also found that at low listening levels the low end was very weak. Adjusted the contour but not much difference. Dealer claims this will change after a long burn in which I find difficult to accept with my existing equipment being well broke in.
On top of this within one hour of playing music the RCC1055 started skipping,
I could see the counter going backwards then forwards, switch to another CD. Finally it would not recognize any CD.
I understand that Rotel is curently correcting the CD problems but it looks like it will be several months from now at least. But my biggest disappointment is the sound quality. My old Adcom GCD700 player and GTP500II has a very clean, warm and powerful sound. I am ready to take everything back at this point but I don't think that dealer will do that. So I am looking for some direction in the matter, any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Ken

why did you buy new w/o auditioning especialy if you liked your old stuff so much
what kind of dealer will not let you return either?

[BluChief]

Thanks to all for the replies. I am replacing my Adcom GFP565 & GCD600 that were stolen from my house a few months back so I have been using the equipment that was in my garage,Adcom GTP500II & GCD700 which both have seen better days with repairs and all.
Being this is a insurance claim my comparable replacement seems to be Rotel. The 2 dealers near me do not accept returns nor do they loan equipment. I was able to listen to the equipment that was in the 2 stores but this is not the same as what I have set up at home. The sales man that I dealt with knew my existing equipment and assured me that I would be happy with the Rotel. Talked with him today and he said to get some hours on the preamp, he could not believe that the cd player failed so quickly.
I'll keep ya posted, Thanks

[RoMan]

Sorry to hear of your situation BluChief...I will agree to give it some time for break in...also can you re-negotiate with your dealer for a trade in for another piece of gear if you are not sastisfied after the break in period?

Hang in there BluChief.

RoMan.

[gd]

Thanks to all for the replies. I am replacing my Adcom GFP565 & GCD600 that were stolen from my house a few months back...

The sales man that I dealt with knew my existing equipment and assured me that I would be happy with the Rotel... he could not believe that the cd player failed so quickly.

I'll add my condolences on your situation... sometimes bad luck just happens.

Not Rotel's fault, but it seems that Rotel retailers are not always well-informed on the line.

Yes, Rotel could be considered a comparable replacement for the Adcom... but it's still a different make with a different signature sound... current-model Adcom gear may well sound different than your previous rig – mfr's do tweak over time.

By all means, put some hours on the gear – most everyone on this Rotel forum will testify that break-in makes a difference, psychological effect notwithstanding.

Also try the mix-n-match I suggested above... if you're still not satisfied, you should still have a shot at refusing the replacement RCC1055, and moving to some other CD player (Cambridge Audio, Rega).

[Jeffo19]

Rotel preamp and Adcom power amp might not have a good synergy together. I find that Rotel has a bright, lively sound to it, oppose to my NAD gear, which is mucher warmer, softer sounding, and involving. You might not just care for the Rotel sound.

[miner]

BluChief,
Where are you located? I have a well-broken in RC1070 I would be willing to loan to you if you are local to the Houston area.

[BluChief]

Thank you for the offer miner but I'm in SoCa.

So far this weekend I did not shut it off for about 40 hours using the RT1084 for a source and hoping for the best. I might get another 15-20 hours this week but still no change as of yet. I was hoping for more bass at low volume like my Adcom was able to produce but I can't see that happening even after the break in period. When I turn up the volume I seem to have plenty of bass.

[miner]

Also, keep in mind that bridging amps will increase distortion which may decrease bass. Prior to my RB-1092 I used an RB-1070 (130 w/ch) and use of contour control did increase the low end a bit but not much. Once I upgraded to teh RB-1092 the bass just flourished tremendously. As or your RCC-1055, I have one also but bought back in early 2006. No problems with it whatsoever.

[BluChief]

I never thought about trying just one amp with out bridging, I will give that a try just to see/hear. But I will be going from 600 watts to 200 watts/channel. If I reconnect my Adcom to the bridged amps I have lots of bass at low volume levels. My Ohm 300 speakers are not very efficient and really suck up the power. My dealer has already suggested the RB1092 @ 500watts/channel but thats $3000.00 OUCH!!!!
FYI the RCC1055 "B" stock had a may 2006 date, came directly from Rotel. I sure hope that Rotel can get this problem fixed soon.

[gd]

My Ohm 300 speakers are not very efficient and really suck up the power. My dealer has already suggested the RB1092 @ 500watts/channel but thats $3000.00 OUCH!!!!

That's your issue right there – I had missed the part where you were running bridged.

The bridging / distortion issue has been real and discernible in my experience... I make it a point to avoid it.

And that means getting sufficient power where it's called for (inefficient spkrs)... there is absolutely no substitute... bridging is not a good solution.

I'm sure the next discussion is: insurance-won't-cover-powerful-amp... so, yeah, "OUCH"... a 1080 might drive them well enough for le$$ than the 1092... either way, once you get a powerful enough amp (you really don't have much choice), take a minute to compare the new one (unbridged) to the bridged Adcoms – the new one should readily sound better all around, whether it's Rotel or something else.

[BluChief]

The bridging / distortion issue has been real and discernible in my experience... I make it a point to avoid it.

Can you explain why that happens. I had no complaints with my original set up, always had plenty of defined powerful bass at all volume levels although I would adjust the tone and conture controls up on my Adcom when listening at low volume levels.
I have reconfigured my set up with 1 Adcom GFA555II amp unbridged, at this point I beleive the RC1070 is starting to breakin with about 50 hours so it is not as harsh sounding and the bass is good with the volume at the 9oclock position.
But any lower volume settings the bass is faint. I have tried the different conture settings but the Adcom had conture and tone.
So tonight I am heading over to my dealer with my Adcom GTP500II and do some comparing with their equipment. They mentioned that I might be able to try the BR1092 at home but I'm afraid I might like it, I really don't want to spend that kind of money right now.

[gd]

I couldn't begin to tell you; I'm not well-versed in ampilifier design.

All I know is I ran a 4-ch amp bridged to 2-ch for some years, and like you, I was content... didn't occur to me to hook up for less power, until I had occasion to do so... and then there was an audible improvement (not huge, mind you)... better detail and soundstage.

Didn't make sense, but afterwards discovering various online forums, I read of others who've encountered the same issue... I'm sure it's very make/model/match-specific like everything else, and may not even apply to your setup... but search 'bridging' or 'bridged' on this forum, you'll find some info.

The curse of low-efficiency speakers (not to mention the desire for 'oomph' at low levels) is that they need to be fed plenty of power – as you did with with bridged amps... but it may not have been the cleanest power.

And power always = $$$... ask your retailer if they have a Rotel RB1080... 200w a side might do ya (I'm not familiar with your speakers).

And if/when you move up to an amp that can drive your speakers properly, take some time to compare that new amp to the bridged Adcoms... I can't say for sure, but I'll be a little surprised if there's not a sound quality difference.

[BluChief]

Well I spent a few hours at the dealer last friday, I brought my Adcom GTP500II for side by side comparing with their well broke in RC1070. I can say that I prefer the overall sound quality of the RC1070, there was alot more detail and a wider soundstage but I miss the powerful bass at low volume settings. When we hooked up my Adcom the overall sound was not as detailed almost muffled but had a more powerful bass. So now the Adcom will go back to the garage and I will continue to get more hours on the Rotel.
I have also rearranged my gear and using just one Adcom amp unbridged as suggested (thanks gd) well the low volume bass seams to have slightly increased but at high volume the amp seems to be maxed out, I don't normaly listen at high volume so at this point things are getting better with the RC1070
My big complaint now is that I don't have a CD player which my dealer is working on, Rotel still does not have a confirmed release date for the new RCC1055. The dealer gave me a "B" stock unit on loan that failed after one hour of use.
Today I talked with my dealer and he said that Rotel will be releasing a new preamp with adjustalbe tone controls like my Adcom but no word on the CD player.

[BluChief]

This past Friday my dealer imformed me that another B stock RCC1055 came in for me and assured me that this unit should not have any problems. When I picked it up they were kind enough to let me borrow an RB1080 amp. That night I hooked up the 1055 and ran it about an hour no problems. Next morning I hook up the 1080 and when I powered up there was an imediate loud HUM throught the speakers, man that scared the crap out of me. I did some troubleshooting, swapping cables, using a cheater plug, etc. I was not able to get rid of the hum. With the amp connected to the speakers and no inputs the hum volume was low, with the RC1070 connected the hum was very loud. All componants are plugged into a Adcom ACE515 power enhancer, I also tried plugging the amp directly into the wall with no change. I took the amp back to the dealer and there is no hum. There is absolutely no hum with the Adcom GFA555II amp, it has a 2 prong plug. The RB1080 amp is the new version with 4 speaker terminals and has the 3 prong plug. This sounds like a ground loop problem but I find it strange that I only have this problem with the Rotel.
So I reconnect the Adcom amp to play some CDs and the RCC1055 starts making a mechanical noise - like a VCR tape rewinding, so what's next ??????????
I also bought the RT1084 HD tuner and I am finding it difficult to tune in where my Adcom & Onkyo tuners have no problems. At this time my dealers does not know what to recommend for an antenna.
I am so frustrated right now I can't see straight. I have told the dealer that I want a full refund but I won't get an answer until the owner gets in next week. I told them that I am still interested in Rotel but I would have to wait 6 months to a year because of the new products that are not available yet. Not sure if I want to wait that long either without some good equipment.
Sorry about all my ramblings but I am still Very Disappointed

[Nuthed]

I never thought about trying just one amp with out bridging, I will give that a try just to see/hear. But I will be going from 600 watts to 200 watts/channel. If I reconnect my Adcom to the bridged amps I have lots of bass at low volume levels. My Ohm 300 speakers are not very efficient and really suck up the power. My dealer has already suggested the RB1092 @ 500watts/channel but thats $3000.00 OUCH!!!!
FYI the RCC1055 "B" stock had a may 2006 date, came directly from Rotel. I sure hope that Rotel can get this problem fixed soon.

Try bi-amping, using one amp per side. One channel of each amp for the high, one for the low. This ensures that each amp only has to drive one low frequency section, so that there is less load put on the power supply.
You'll just need some "Y" adapters to split each channel into 2 feeds for each amp. Then run the amps in "stereo" mode.

[gd]

Sorry about all my ramblings but I am still Very Disappointed

I'm an enthusiastic Rotel booster, but I think you should bail out and try another make... there are just too many things going wrong, even if they are coincidental.

A few general thoughts:

That RCC-1055 is known to have some operational issues, dunno if they're fixed yet... that said, a B-stock unit doesn't inspire confidence.

The hum issue has shown up from time to time with the amps, and sometimes it just doesn't get resolved, too many variables... though often it has proven to be ground loop involving incoming cable TV... sometimes it's the local power – location-dependent... and occasionally it's the amps themselves (a design issue)... difficult to resolve.

And the tuner – wow, just seems like bad luck... although tuners' ability to pull in stations does vary wildly from make to make... a decent antenna can make a huge difference, but still tough luck in that you did not need one before... more $$$.

Your retailers sound like good guys who are trying to help... not a reflection on them, but please know that not all Rotel dealers are perfectly well-informed on all current issues out there.

If it was me, I'd get out while the getting's good, and now may the best time to negotiate that while so many things are going wrong right out of the box.

EDIT: One more tidbit... in the last year Rotel redoubled their quality control effort, and (though I'm not perfectly clear on the specifics) it was implied that faulty units could be returned without a fuss.

Consider a sideways move to Marantz, NAD... and hey, why not check out new Adcom units while you're at it?

Good luck.

[hifiguymi]

Sorry to hear about all the bad luck BluChief. The amp making that much noise is a little disconcerting. Do you have cable? If so, did you disconnect the cable feed into the system and did anything change? As gd said, Rotel has had amps that are sensitive to that (they are not the only ones by the way). If that does take care of the noise, there are ground lifters for your cable feed that are only a couple of dollars.

The tuner issue is a crap shoot most of the time. Tuners cannot "pull in" stations but they differ in sensitivity and selectivity. That is why one tuner will work with a given antenna and the next one won't. The only "magic" to reliable FM with any tuner is antenna height (like putting an antenna in an attic or outside). That isn't always possible so you have to work with what you can. I have come across your same situation many times and there is no way to know until you try it as you have.

The CD player issue will hopefully be resolved when Rotel starts shipping the updated version (which is in April). The reason it's been unavailable is because they found a different vendor for the transport and have had to reengineer it. The transport they were using broke to much as you are painfully aware.

I don't know if this helps, but I wish you the best of luck in getting it resolved.

Eric

[BluChief]

Thanks to all for the replies, one would think that this can't be that difficult it's not like this is rocket science. Anyways my sales is very understanding of the situation at hand but the owner says "NO" to a refund. I told my salesman that I would consider Rotel in 6-12 months when the new products are proven & available. At this point I have spent about $2K on a CD player that doesn't work X 2, a HD tuner that doesn't tune for XXXX (no dealer solid recommendations or solutions at this time) and a preamp that is very nice sounding but does not offer what I was looking for like the new preamp does. The dealer was kind enough to lend me a RB1080 that produced an enormous amount of hum and all the dealer could think about is that I did something to their amp, which worked just fine in the show room. I was then informed that the amp had blown the buss fuses a week before...WTF They offered NO other solution for me to try. And on that humming matter my system set up is for music only with no cable or phone connections of any kind. So now my only hope is to get the new preamp, new CD changer and possibly the RB1095 amp with out the HUM but only the amp is available. I wonder if I can order an amp with out the HUM.....................?
Can someone please wake me up I want this nightmare to be over

[shadow 8]

Look at Arcam. Sounds as good or better than Rotel without the persistent QC problems of Rotel.

[miner]

I would contact Rotel directly and tell them your history and your dealer's 'no refund policy'. This will get the ball rolling.

[gd]

Your retailer won't refund faulty product?... not good.

If they won't contact Rotel on your behalf, I guess it is time to go over their heads... I suggest PM-ing this forum's moderator, Kevin D, for contacts and also for general advice.

And again, Rotel has recently launched an aggressive QC upgrade in the last year... don't know the specifics, but the impression I get is that faulty units are to be exchanged promptly and without inconvenience... and it's entirely possible your retailers are unaware of this... and if I perceive the new policy correctly, it shouldn't cost your retailer anything to have this corrected (though the retailer's welfare is the least of your concerns).

Another good idea is to let your retailer know that their issue is being discussed publicly here – it's often a motivator... I'm guessing Rotel people visit here as well.

And yet another thought, anticipating the worst... what other makes does the retailer carry, just in case?

You shouldn't be 'stuck'... either the retailer or Rotel should be running hard to resolve this.

[Kevin D]

Ugh, I hate to hear you going through all this. Definitely contact Rotel directly as no one knows exactly what your dealer is telling them.

Are you in North America? Rotel's new policy is immediate A-stock replacement for defective product within the first year.

My thoughts:

The 1055 CD changer. It has a known issue, it's b-stock, both units still have issues. There should be no question that gets refunded.

You expressed disappointment with the 1070 the day after you received it. Your dealer pushed you out of a reasonable return period telling you to let it burn in. Whether burn-in happens or not, you're still not satisfied. They should refund it because had it not been for them you would have returned it fairly quickly.

On the 1084, I'm surprised. I just replaced an old NAD tuner with it. I was very surprised at what the NAD could pick up and the 1084 didn't lose any. This is with a bow-tie antenna in the attic, I haven't compared with the antenna that comes with it.

As far as the 1080 humming, that's a common complaint. The ground design does have some issues with certain other equipment (independent of cable/phone ground loops). I see you tried a 2 to 3 prong adapter and that didn't fix the hum. I'm wondering if the 1070 might have some original issues we're missing. If the fuses were blown in it, it's an older model that hasn't had the fix for that applied.

Get in contact with Rotel and see what they have to say about everything.

Kevin D.

[petergaryr]

...First thing I noticed was how ear piercing bright the sound was although the music was very detailed. ...Ken

That is a surprise to me. I'm using and RC1070/RB1070/RCD1072 connected to a pair of Klipsch RF5's. People who don't like the highly detailed sound of a Klipsch often label it as "bright". If the Rotel equipment were also bright, that should be an unbearable combination, but, at least to my ears it isn't.

I will say that Rotel tends to bring out everything in a source---for better or worse. You may find that you are hearing things you've never noticed before. That can be a good thing in the case of well recorded CDs. Unfortunately, you will also clearly hear the faults in poorly recorded ones.

So many others have suggested you give it time to get used to the sound and I'd cast my vote in that direction as well. Sorry to hear about the QC and dealer issues.

[BluChief]

I talked with my salesman yesterday and still just more talk................................
So the new RCC1055 CD changer is in testing, shipping date unknown.
The RT 1084 HD Tuner still no actual recomendation on an antenna.
I have already tried the factory supplied dipole, rabbit ears & an amplified indoor antenna. My Adcom tuner has no problems with a dipole in this same location.
The RB1080 amp I borrowed with all that HUM burned out more fuses in their show room,
Their tech said the input resistors are most likely shorted and would produce a hum.
So I tell him again, " You have my money, I have equipment I can't use and don't like,
The new equipment ie the new preamp & cd changer is not available yet, I want my money back " Salesman again says no can do but will lend me a different CD player and to call him back tomorrow, I guess he's too busy to call me cause he doesn't.

So if you live in SoCa and need some equipment I would stay away from these guys,
Audio Video Today on Beach Blvd. in Westminster, Ca.

[hifiguymi]

The RT 1084 HD Tuner still no actual recomendation on an antenna.
I have already tried the factory supplied dipole, rabbit ears & an amplified indoor antenna. My Adcom tuner has no problems with a dipole in this same location.

Can you get an antenna any higher up? As I stated in a previous post, height is the single best way to improve FM reception. The best FM antenna's I've used are $25.00 attic/outdoor mounted ones. It takes time to put them in but they will give you the best results with any tuner.

The RB1080 amp I borrowed with all that HUM burned out more fuses in their show room,
Their tech said the input resistors are most likely shorted and would produce a hum.

Did the tech do anything other than speculate? I'd call Rotel and tell them. That's crazy that it keeps blowing fuses and they just replace them and don't try to figure out why. I've sold alot of Rotel amps and have had a couple of them hum, but nothing like what you describe.

Eric