onkyo vs rotel

**aud19** · 30 January 2004, 19:26 Friday

Bonjour et bienvenue Steve

To answer your question.... Will any receiver sound as good in stereo as a dedicated 2-channel system? No. Will the Rotel sound better than the Onkyo in stereo? In my opinion, yes. If you've got the funds, uprgade to what sounds best to you. Also note the 1055 is being replaced by the 1056 which likely will sound even better

Jason

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**Bam!** · 30 January 2004, 19:45 Friday

Thanks for your reply... I did not want my post to be too long but really what I do not like about my Onkyo is how the voices in many movies are not loud enough then explosions are retarded loud. I have calibrated the speakers with AVIA and an spl meter. I have MIT cables...my center channel is actually set 2db's louder than my mains and it is 6 ohms vs 8 ohms for the mains and surround. It should be too loud. I hear the same complaint with Rotel?! :? Also why do I have to put the volume like at 45 to hear it. My 2 channel Rotel is at volume 2 and it SCREAMS!. Why is that ? Also as soon as I put my LFE above -7 on the receiver the sound gets colored ...muffled sound like Mariah Carey in a vacuum bag.... Other than that I guess it is OK
Thanks Steve
I try to keep it short!

Bam!

**DrBoom** · 30 January 2004, 20:23 Friday

Bam!,

if voices aren't loud enough, and explosions are too loud, maybe you should consider using some sort of dynamic range compression (or just get a better center speaker

)
Either your DVD or receiver should have a form of dynamic range compression, which lowers the level of the explosions so the dialog can be more easily heard.
It's often referred to as Dialog Enhancement too, or just Dynamic Range Compression.

I don't see what 6 ohms or 8 ohms would have to do with anything, it's the efficiency (db/W) of the speaker that counts for this kind of thing.
Put the volume at 45 you say, why would that be a problem ?
My RSP1098 goes from 0 to 96, and is usually around 45 for TV and 60 - 65 for DVD, so who cares what number it's on, if it's loud enough that's all that matters

.
Your 2 channel Rotel is totally different, and can have a much higher gain for instance, that would already explain why it's loud at 2.
Many manufacturers use a high gain amplifier, so when you turn the volume up just a little bit it's already playing very loudly.
This is just a sales tactic, because people tend to prefer things that play loud with the volume turned way down :roll: .
Also, volume controls aren't standardized (except THX ones) so they're very different from one another.
For Marantz receivers you have to turn the volume to - 5 dB to play loud, Yamaha to -30 dB, Rotel to 60, .... it doesn't matter, and then it's still dependent on the speakers you have, so don't sweat it 8)

**Energeezer** · 31 January 2004, 20:05 Saturday

Bam
I too am a 2 channel lover but need a rx for movies.
I upgraded from an Onkyo 626 (I think) first to a Marantz SR7200 and then to a Rotel 1055/1075 combo.
The Marantz was a nice sounding unit and a definte upgrade over the Onkyo for 2 channel but it really fell apart on movies which is why i went with Rotel.
With the 1055/1075 combo I feel I have a good compromise between 2 and multichannel. While it is not as good at 2 channel as some high end 2 CH seperates it does sound real nice. Not as smooth as the Marantz (I think the Marantz was rolling off some of the highs) but all arounfd more detailed and better. Certainly better than the Onkyo in every way EXCEPT conveinience features.
Steve

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**Bam!** · 31 January 2004, 20:47 Saturday

Steve

Thanks so much for the feedback

What do you mean by compromise. I do not want to compromise. What I mean is I am presently running 2 seperate systems one being a 2 channel and another being the HT. My biggest concern is whether I will hear an upgrade not only on 2 channel (presently 840 bx Rotel) but on my HT Onkyo vs Rotel. It is a lot of money which does not bother me if I hear a big difference. This is where I am at... I am really trying to think this through since it my my 3rd upgrade

Once again thanks for the reply

Bam!

**simonb68** · 01 February 2004, 09:19 Sunday

Steve, any HT receiver is going to be a compromise on 2CH ability to what you could achieve spending the same amount on discrete 2CH components. The benefit you get from a receiver though is convenience and reduced component count. The difference in 2CH ability between receivers tends to be greater than that for HT in receivers around the mid price range of the Rotel - Yamaha, Denon and Marantz are generally recognised as not giving the same 2CH performance as say NAD and Rotel and perhaps the new HK range. I've not heard an Onkyo but from what I've read they would be in the not so good 2CH camp. Whether a receiver can match your current 2CH system is something for you to decide, but I would say its possible to match it in a receiver without spending the combined price of the 2CH system and the Onkyo. What receiver this would be I don't know, you would have to go and listen. Matching a good quality 2CH system is less easy for the price, and you then start moving into pre/pro/power combos, and are looking at the Meridians, Tags, Brystons and Thetas of this world (and others, these were the first I thought of). Although the Rotel 1098 also gets good reviews for 2CH as well as HT, and doesn't embarass itself in the same company as previously mentioned brands. I am contemplating an upgrade (from a 1055), primarily to improve my 2CH, I haven't decided yet whether this needs to be a source upgrade or pre/pro/power, but I was looking at the 1098, or even the new 1068, however don't rule out the used market. I can pick up a used Meridian 568.2 for less than a new 1098, and the Meridian should beat it in all areas, however the question is whether my system will reveal this. So its also a question of balance, a very good pre/pro is a waste of money (except as one step of a complete system upgrade) unless the rest of your system can match its ability.

You've listened to the 1055 and liked it, so you should know if it betters your current 2CH system, if not then possibly wait for the 1068 with a 1075 for example, if its got a lot of the 1098 in it it should be quite a bit better than the 1055.

As to your sound level suspicions of the Rotel, I don't get too hung up on calibration, or spl levels, though I may once I have more space where I can position speakers better. I play movies around 55-60, TV around 40-45 and CDs anything from 30 to 60 depending on the content. I don't have a sub, just fairly small (though good) monitors and I get pretty good bass levels, explosions sound great, I know what the 1055 can do with a good sub, I heard it during the demo... scary. I would also look at your centre as DrBoom suggests, I made do with what I thought was a reasonable centre speak for ages, but watching Moulin Rouge demonstrated the tonality difference. So I upgraded to the nearest match to my mains, what a difference, hadn't realised what I was missing, the previous centre was compressing everything so much, dialogue is so much better, and I hadn't appreciated how much of what I thought should be coming out of the mains actually emanates from the centre.

Sorry for the ramblings, ultimately my advice, probably like most others, is go and listen alot and decide whether you can get value for money.

Simon

**Andrew Pratt** · 01 February 2004, 11:20 Sunday

2 Channel sound was the biggest gain I found when I upgraded to the 1098...its simply much much cleaner sounding as a pre amp then the 1066 was...esp in its bypass mode

**Bam!** · 01 February 2004, 14:03 Sunday

Simon! You went inside my head and made me see basically what I have been thinking of as far as 2 channel goes and stuck it in my face 8O ! Now we are talking about starting over my quest for sound and spending major bucks :roll:

.
In another forum there is another guy who has sort of the same problem as me and everyone is talking about a Pre Amp..Going with seperates. My biggest deal is that I am happy for now with my present 2 channel..it is more or less the home theater Onkyo receiver. So I have been analysing what really bothers me:

Dr Boom says Dynamic Rangefor my voices not being loud enough. O.K.
I went into my DVD and found a DRC adjustments go from off to small to med to large :? Comment 2: Get a better center channel...Any suggestions :?:

When I listen to my 2 channel system it just screams and gets in your face.
I put the Onkyo on and I feel like the sound is playing from another room. So maybe it came out wrong when I said that it bothers me to pump it 45 50. Really what I mean is it doesn`t :grab:

When I put the sub up to the level I am supposed to for movies (10db less than the mains is what I have told) the sound is like someone stuck in a bag a really thick bag :? . I feel like a shtruntz saying all this but only in this forum could I talk about this and get a fresh percpective on things ANY MORE SUGGESTIONS are more than welcome here guys

I wish we could a poker night but for sound...I know my ball and chain could use a break from my rambing :!: ;-x

Andrew From 1098 what did you have and what did you find precisely better :?: Have you ever had a discrete 2 channel and now find that the receivers are good enough :?:

Thanks a lot guys Waiting to hear more

Bam!

**simonb68** · 01 February 2004, 18:24 Sunday

Steve, I didn't mean to alarm you or put you off the 1055 or any Rotel, just trying to point out that you can't necessarily get the same 2Ch quality from a receiver as from a 2Ch system for the same money. The better your 2Ch system the more expensive the receiver needed to replace it, and eventually you end up getting into pre/pro/power territory. I wasn't suggesting you needed to do this, but not being familiar with your system I didn't know what level to pitch at.
It does sound like your Onkyo is lacking, or it could possibly be the speakers, some just don't do it for HT what they do for 2Ch. I'd try to get a home demo of a 1055 or 1056 if you can wait. If that doesn't do it for you then perhaps look higher. I'd consider ditching your 2Ch, put the money towards a better all-in-one, that at least matches your 2Ch, it can be done.
I had a low end 2Ch system with add on DPL processor, wanted the new surround formats, plumped for the Rotel, then got back into 2Ch having heard my CDs in a new light, now want to improve this. I think thats a testament to the musicality of the Rotel.

If you really are happy with your 2Ch then I'd look at a Denon, or a Pioneer VX or AX (UK models) all do extremely well for pure HT.

By the way Andrew had a 1055 before the 1098, search for the large 1098 review thread, you'll find a lot of comments about the quality of the 1098, and comparisons to the 1055.

Simon

**Bam!** · 01 February 2004, 19:10 Sunday

Simonb68
You did not alarm me..it is just that I am a little :banana: when it comes to my stereo. I am thinking of Stereo anonamous(Why does that spelling just seem so wrong :??

I figure that maybe I should make a list of my systems...either it help or everyone who read this forum just :bash: me.

HT

Onkyo 575x
Pioneer DVD 302
Acoustic Research Coaxial
MIT cables T4`s all around
Cerwin Vega 12``sub with Monster cable interconnect (maybe upgrade here could do no harm)
Athena S2 for mains and surrounds
Mordaunt short center channel
JVC 2 channel amp with JVC speakers just to make the sofa`s shake once in a while

ops:

So thanks a million hoping for a couple more replies

Bam!

**Bam!** · 03 February 2004, 17:17 Tuesday

I was listening to David Gilmour this morning on DVD.

I forgot how sweet this dvd was. 8)

I really think what I am looking for is more power therefore a more refined sound.

In 2 years or so I plan on selling my present home and getting one built with a dedicated Home theater room completely sound proofed and so on. :hb I think that is all I can remedy myself with at this point.

Merci la !

Bam!

**aud19** · 03 February 2004, 17:47 Tuesday

I think you have two choices here:

One- Keep your existing two channel system and add a seperate multichannel system with one of the more affordable receivers just for HT. You can slowly upgrade either or both at the same time with newer speakers, amps processors etc.

Two- Sell everything you have and start from scratch. New speakers, amps and seperate processor which, depending on the quality of your existing two channel system, could end up outperforming it and pull duty as your HT processor as well. Definately not the cheapest option but the one that would likely give you the best results.

Jason

Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide

**Energeezer** · 03 February 2004, 18:42 Tuesday

Like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap!

Jason
Yes but there are bargains out there if you are willing to compromise.

The Future of HT lies in FP SPREAD THE WORD

**aud19** · 03 February 2004, 19:10 Tuesday

I'm confused...are we talking about electronics or women here?

Jason

Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide

**Bam!** · 03 February 2004, 19:45 Tuesday

Thanks Aud19

It is funny you mention to sell everything and move on... I was thinking of keeping it all for my next house so I could have a kitchen with a home theater (hence the name Bam! 8) ) Yeah anyhoo you are right I do think seperates are the way to go...which one I so confused :? but I will read many posts in this great forum and should be able to come up with something :idea:

Merci la les boys eh!

Bam!