Does anyone here use RCD-1072 with Benchmark DAC-1?

[audiofan]

Hi,
I was wondering if you use rotel rcd-1072 with benchmark DAC-1? What do you think about the sound?

thanks.

[sprout]

Hi,
I was wondering if you use rotel rcd-1072 with benchmark DAC-1? What do you think about the sound?

thanks.

Can't say I have, but have you? or are you thinking of?
If you have, what do you think?
Have you tried other transports with one? if so howid the 1072 hold up?

sprout

[audiofan]

I don't have one. But i would like to hear opinion on it. I may get one since it has 30 days warranty return from benchmark

[Spearmint]

I was using one for about six months, puts the 1072 into another league. The combination is works really well, the only reason I don’t use it any more is I was striving for even better sound and upgraded.

The upgrade albeit good is not a night & day difference, and yes everything is great in hindsight I should have stayed with the 1072/DAC1 combo and saved a couple of grand. The RCD1072 makes for a better transport than player when coupled with a good DAC IMO.

[jim777]

I was using one for about six months, puts the 1072 into another league. The combination is works really well, the only reason I don’t use it any more is I was striving for even better sound and upgraded.

The upgrade albeit good is not a night & day difference, and yes everything is great in hindsight I should have stayed with the 1072/DAC1 combo and saved a couple of grand. The RCD1072 makes for a better transport than player when coupled with a good DAC IMO.

On what pre/amp/speakers did you test the DAC1? What CDP did you buy?

I have a 1072 and I'm hesitating between a DAC1 or a new CDP...

[Jackson]

I am new at this. What ias a DAC1 or a CDP? JNorth1178

[Spearmint]

On what pre/amp/speakers did you test the DAC1? What CDP did you buy?

I have a 1072 and I'm hesitating between a DAC1 or a new CDP...

I used it with both a Rotel 1098, using a 1080 amp as well as another amp, and also a dedicated 2ch pre. The 1072 does make a great transport IMO, and regardless if you decide later on to upgrade the 1072 the DAC1 will still be a good asset. The new transport I bought was a CEC TL51X.

[Spearmint]

I am new at this. What ias a DAC1 or a CDP? JNorth1178

Hi Jackson welcome to the forum.

DAC1 = Benchmark DAC1 a stand alone external unit
CDP = CD Player

[audiofan]

What i'm wondering is if there is a big difference like day and night between rcd-1072 + DAC-1 and more expensive CDP. I guess with rcd-1072 + DAC-1 , you have more options if you will update later on.

[JKalman]

The 1072 and Dac1 would work fine together. You don't even need anything that good as a transport though since the Benchmark DAC1 uses a proprietary technology called UltraLock. Any transport you use should work superbly, even one of those new 45 dollar cheap DVD players with a coaxial or TOSLINK output that you can buy at Best Buy, because the UltraLock reclocks any signal it receives and eliminates any jitter incurred by whichever transport is used. So as long as the transport you buy isn't broken anything you purchase should be fine. That being the case the 1072 would be overkill and a waste of money to pair with the DAC1.

The DAC1 has an excellent award winning headphone amplifier as well. If I were you, and I am in a way because I am making similar decisions on buying a DAC1, and I also considered the Rotel as a transport until I realized the UltraLock makes it unnecessary, I would buy the DAC1 and get a really cheap transport and spend the 600 dollars you were going to spend on the 1072 on audiophile/reference level headphones, like the Sennheiser HD 650 or the AKG K 701. That is what I will be doing. I just haven't figured out which headphones are the best choice for me, and I can't find any place to demo any of them. :cry:

You could even get one of those AirPort Express Wi-Fi Hub-D/A processor and put all your CDs on your computer and use the digital out from the Wi-Fi plug to connect with your DAC1 in your bedroom and listen to your headphones in bed without bothering the wife. The DAC1 is so small and light it is easy to move between systems and get a lot of use from it. I'm probably going to put a lot of music on my Mac and wirelessly route the music from my office in the basement to my high end audio system setup in my office using the DAC1 (even though I'm using an Ayre C-5xe for most of my CD playing, it might be fun to play around with the DAC1 on this system, just for sh$$s and giggles), to my entire house Niles system, and to the DAC1 in my bedroom. Of course, just remember to save everyting as "lossless" so it isn't compressed into some format like MP3 which will throw away bits and effect the sound quality.

The Dac1 won the Editor's Choice award in 2004 from Stereophile for its headphone amp and DAC. Notice that they tell you that you don't need an expensive transport because it is unnecessary! I hate to see you waste 600 dollars when you will get the same sound for 45 dollars. You would benefit more by buying the AKG K 701 and Sennheiser HD 650 headphones and listening to the DAC1 anywhere you go in the house that has a DVD/CD player with two very different sounding reference headphones you can switch around depending on your mood. :W That is like having two more separate speaker systems in your house.

Good luck! :T

[JKalman]

What i'm wondering is if there is a big difference like day and night between rcd-1072 + DAC-1 and more expensive CDP. I guess with rcd-1072 + DAC-1 , you have more options if you will update later on.

Well Stereophile rates the DAC1 an A, which is a great rating. Like I mentioned in a previous post, it doesn't matter what transport you use since the signal is re-clocked anyway, so the Rotel is insignificant in the equation.

For my reference level CD player I bought an Ayre C-5xe personally, which received an A+, which means it plays SACD, DVD-A, CD (HDCD decoding as well because of the Burr-Brown 1792 chips), etc at the best sound quality level, though only in stereo, not multi-channel. For the price it is a steal IMO because of all the things it can do while still being designed cleanly enough to be rated reference quality.

Anything that has a coaxial and/or TOSLINK output can be used for updates later on since it can be used as a transport. If you buy a very high end DAC down the road when chips have evolved even more, you can then use the older source component as a transport instead of just getting rid of it.

[JKalman]

I wouldn't bother with the 1072 if you don't already have it. I think this is a wise decision because if you do decide to go really high in quality when you upgrade some time in the future, you will likely want to get a matching transport by the same company and get rid of the Rotel anyway, e.g. - if you got an EMM transport and DAC, or dCS stack. In a lot of cases the high end stuff will have special links that allow their components to share information between each other, like a world clock, etc, making the Rotel wasted money that could have been saved and then spent on one of those higher end transports. You would definitely benefit more by spending the money on improving something else in your system IMO.

[JKalman]

Look at the bottom of this webpage under the Specs tab to see how well UltraLock works, it is pretty incredible! Benchmark DAC1 website link.

I just wish it didn't take two to three weeks for the DAC1 orders to ship... I was hoping to bring it on vacation with me to listen to music at the hotel room in Boca Raton Florida.

[sprout]

jkalman

It would appear you are very happy to buy goods rated by others as A/A+ and spec sheets, which I am sure often gives great results.

clock & jitter is one area, however while the 1072 may not be the best setup for this budget, suggesting any cheap DVD spinner is all that is needed to partner the dac1 is unwise to say the least.

Quality transports have many qualities to consider :T

sprout

[JKalman]

jkalman

It would appear you are very happy to buy goods rated by others as A/A+ and spec sheets, which I am sure often gives great results.

Actually, I use ratings to put items on a short list so I can demo them. I don't go out and buy things just because they get a good rating. Likewise, I've demoed things that don't have great ratings if a friend who has experience in the field recommends I go listen to a piece of equipment. Usuaully, if there is a consensus that a piece of equipment is good from many different sources, it means that there might be something worth checking out about the item. I only own one of the items I mentioned in the previous posts that had a high rating, the Ayre C-5xe, which I spent a long time testing in New Haven, CT before spending the $6000 dollars on it.

I do feel that awards and ratings can be useful tools. I don't think you should assume that I am happy to go out and buy things based solely on that. I mentioned the ratings in the previous posts to show that people with more experience than most people on these fora, including me and likely you, consider the equipment high quality. That makes them worth a demo IMO. I haven't bought headphones for myself, even though I have wanted a pair for quite some time now, because I can't find anywhere to demo the high end models without buying them.

clock & jitter is one area, however while the 1072 may not be the best setup for this budget, suggesting any cheap DVD spinner is all that is needed to partner the dac1 is unwise to say the least.

Quality transports have many qualities to consider :T

sprout

Your quote above leads me to believe you didn't read what I said very carefully, and/or that you didn't read up on the measurements from either Stereophile's or Benchmark's websites. It would be unwise, to say the least, to spend money unnecessarily on a transport for the DAC1 considering the results of the measured evaluations (objective evaluations) of the UltraLock, which eliminates the character of the transport anyway.

If we were discussing EMMLabs equipment or dCS, or other high end gear with well matching transports and DACs I would agree with you, but not in this situation with the DAC1. It would be silly to waste a lot of money on a transport for the DAC1, the objective measurements of the UltraLock technology in motion proves that. If your system already has a DVD player, you would get similar results using that as you would by purchasing a dedicated transport.

The DAC1 is a special situation where a cheap transport will work fine because of the UltraLock technology. I can understand wanting to purchase a nice looking transport to match up with the DAC1, but that is the only reason to spend the extra money, for aesthetics of one sort or another, which is justifiable if you can afford to waste the money. I recommend reading up on how the DAC1 works on the Benchmark website since they describe what the UltraLock technology does, and show graphs of it eliminating the jitter effects caused by a jittery transport.

A friend and I hooked a DAC1 up to a bunch of different players, both DVD and CD around our houses, ranging from crap to new and didn't find any difference in the sound quality. The only thing you have to worry about is jitter that is so excessive that it causes the bits to be misread or the timing information to be skewed, which is also a symptom of the bits being misread. This isn't really an issue you are going to find occurring nowadays to the extent where it would effect the UltraLock technology from functioning properly, unless the hardware is damaged.

"Finally, even when fed via a high-jitter TosLink connection from my PC, the DAC1's rejection of word-clock jitter was excellent, with the 24-bit jitter level, assessed with the Miller Audio Research Analyzer, just 128.5 picoseconds peak-peak (fig.10). Data-related jitter was absent, and the highest-level pair of sidebands in this graph lie at ±15.6Hz (purple "1").—John Atkinson"

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying go out and buy a piece of equipment that is total garbage, I'm saying that a transport/DVD-player/CD-player that is cheap will suffice as well as one that is expensive in this situation. If for instance you already have a DVD player in your system, it would be silly to buy a separate transport for the DAC1 since the transport's qualities are eliminated by the UltraLock anyway. It is more rational to spend that money on improving something else in the system. Perhaps you could buy a better DVD player instead of a separate CD player like the 1072, which you don't need with the DAC1 for obvious reasons.

[hanser]

Just food for thought: I was contemplating a DAC-1 last year, but decided on the Aqvox USB 2 D/A (see www.aqvox.com), because of reviews, basically telling that the Benchmark is excellent (although sounding a bit bright/unforgiving), but the Aqvox is even better, for less money. I never regretted the decision, the Aqvox put my CD sound on SACD-like level. Therefore I recommend to buy the Aqvox to complement your Rotel 1072.

[audiofan]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I currently have rcd-1072. I thought getting DAC-1 would improve the sound. There are many good reviews about DAC-1, but i still prefer opinion from you as you may have listened to it. I was just wondering if DAC-1 + RCD-1072 will give the big difference to rcd-1072 alone?

thanks.

[chinets]

Yes can anyone answer Audiofan's question above?? 1072 + Dac-1 or just 1072 alone please???? Which is better????
Chinets

[JKalman]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I currently have rcd-1072. I thought getting DAC-1 would improve the sound. There are many good reviews about DAC-1, but i still prefer opinion from you as you may have listened to it. I was just wondering if DAC-1 + RCD-1072 will give the big difference to rcd-1072 alone?

thanks.

I think the DAC1 would definitely be better than the RCD-1072. I demo-ed the Rotel RCD-1072 for a few days at home and have used my friends DAC1 often. I think the DAC1 is definitely better, and since you already own the RCD-1072, and aren't going out and buying it just as a transport, it will make one hell of a transport for the DAC1. If you can spend more you can find better, but it would cost a lot more. Nothing is as good in terms of value for sound quality as the DAC1, it is accepted by many people to be the case.

Like I was saying in earlier posts as well... It is also considered one of the best headphone preamp/amps as well, which means you can use it for more than one thing in other parts of your house, like I will be using one eventually to listen to music in bed, once I finish purchasing the items that are higher up on my list.

You have 30 days to try out the DAC1 if you order it, so why not find out for yourself. That seems like a win win situation to me. If you don't like it just return it! :W

[JKalman]

A question I have been pondering is which is better of the two DAC1 housings, the silver or black housing? Is one designed better for less EMI or other issues, such as overheating? The silver came later so I am thinking perhaps they designed it with minor improvements?

[sprout]

As you say you cant lose, so buy both and blind test, but I think you may be getting a bit carried away

A question I have been pondering is which is better of the two DAC1 housings, the silver or black housing? Is one designed better for less EMI or other issues, such as overheating? The silver came later so I am thinking perhaps they designed it with minor improvements?

[JKalman]

As you say you cant lose, so buy both and blind test, but I think you may be getting a bit carried away

LOL, I didn't say to order both!
That would just be weird.
Not that I'm not weird or anything...;x(:lol::W:

Seriously though, wouldn't you think that perhaps the silver one is better because it is a bit larger, giving more breathing space to the DACs inside and more separation between the electrical pathways which would cut down on the possibility of crosstalk?

I guess it doesn't matter that much. My bigger dilema is whether to go with the AKG K 701 or Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. I heard that the AKGs image a lot better than the Sennheisers, but their bass is a little thin. I need to find a place to demo them or find an online store that has a 30 day trial.

I wish I already had all my Ayre gear now so I could buy my headsets and amp/DAC. I am really dedicated to putting this Ayre system together though. It was the most beautiful setup I'd ever heard and that includes systems costing 3 times as much... God I need sleep! :Z

[jim777]

A question I have been pondering is which is better of the two DAC1 housings, the silver or black housing? Is one designed better for less EMI or other issues, such as overheating? The silver came later so I am thinking perhaps they designed it with minor improvements?

At the AES, I was told that the silver version was only added because the DAC1 was in strong demand from the audiophile community. At first it was designed for pro audio only. The electronics inside are the same.

[Nolan B]

sorry if this is a little off topic, but does anyone know how the Benchmark DAC compares with Music Fidelity's DACs? The reason I ask is because I want to improve the 2 channel sound from my RDV 1060 and the music fidelity equipment is easier for me to get and they claim to have the best DAC in the world.

[Joey_V]

I guess it doesn't matter that much. My bigger dilema is whether to go with the AKG K 701 or Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. I heard that the AKGs image a lot better than the Sennheisers, but their bass is a little thin. I need to find a place to demo them or find an online store that has a 30 day trial.

Z

I've been into the headphone side of hifi with the Senn HD650 hooked up to a Headamp GS-1 (Gilmore design, class A SS headphone amp - $800)... I felt that the 650 was good, but not as good as my brother's K701. I like the 701 better as I feel that the 650s are a little too dark and have a somewhat grainier treble.

[fvoelling]

Unfortunately, Benchmark never quite explains just how they manage to re-clock the data stream while keeping up with the incoming data (which may be slower or faster than required). Some kind of buffer perhaps?

Anyway, here's another recommendation that was made by the owner of a DAC-1 on another forum (not sure if I'm allowed to post a link to the post?). It's for a PreSonus Central Station, which is a DAC, preamp, and headphone amp that sells for about $500. He likes its DAC almost as much as his Benchmark's, especially when mated with a quality transport (he does say that the DAC-1 is superior in jitter reduction, but if you already have the 1072, that may not be as much of an issue for you).

Of course there are also a bunch of chinese made DACs that are quite affordable, but due to the shipping costs and lack of a trial period you are taking your chances.

Honestly, after doing a lot of reading over the last couple of days on the virtues of separate transports/DACs vs integrated CDPs, up/oversampling vs not, coax vs optical cables, and even tube vs SS, I'm more educated than ever about the issues, but unfortunately even more confused about what to do. I'm currently ripping my entire CD collection to hard disk, but I have no clue yet on how to best play them later (using both headphones and speakers).

Frank

[SQconstable]

Hey, while someone said something about headphones, I wanted to ask something off-topic (mods kill me).. are you guys/gals more into open-air headphones because of the claim they're more accurate than closed phones? I personally have found more true-to-the-source results with headphones that block out the outside world. I've tried so many different headphones since I've had access to so many different brands/models. I've personally found that above $100, phones marketed for "studio quality" (catering to studio use) have an imbalance on the "sound quality versus price" aspect. In my field, we use a pair of headphones as something to hear exactly what we're mixing. We know that when we can hear only the direct source, we're not going to be worrying about outside distractions/interference. With open-air phones there's added reflections (small but adds up), coloring/timbre (small but adds up), and changed phasing (small but again, adds up) that affect the way the source is perceived. Perhaps home theater buffs may not worry more about how it sounds to them, but remember that there are, for the most part, studio engineers that try to achieve flat mixing environments. It makes sense to preserve the accuracy of the music's intention on the headphone end of the equation too since the gear in your setup is true/accurate.

You'll be surprised by the accuracy of bass in closed phones. If you are truly wanting to hear the music, demo some closed ear phones. Open-air brings more variables into play which conflict with the source that you have been trying to achieve all along in your listening room when battling room acoustics and your loudspeakers!

I personally recommend demoing the Sony MDR-7506 and Audio Technica ATH-M40fs (both around $100 each) which I both own as a response to hearing so many expensive ones. Those two are also very comfortable, and that's not just my opinion either. Go with the AT's if you like to listen louder - they handle much more power.

ok.. ahem.. sorry that i went on a tangent but it's so easy to just put the cursor here and give some advice. hehe

[fvoelling]

I've kind of wondered about that myself, thinking that the closed type would isolate you better from outside noise and therefore sound better. I suppose they assume that you have a quiet listening environment when they compare open vs closed designs. It may actually be an advantage though to have an open design when you still want to be able to hear the phone or doorbell for example.

I've only tried on a few different types of headphones, and my biggest hangup is comfort. Who cares how good they sound if they're not comfortable. That's kind of why I picked the AKG, aside from its sound quality it's also supposed to be comfy to wear for hours.

Frank

[audiofan]

I read DAC-1 manual and am confused. There is a switch on the back of DAC-1: Variable and Calibrated. If i have an integrated amp, how do i adjust the output? by using DAC-1 volume or my integrate amp volume? Can i just turn off the DAC-1 volume at all?

I hope someone can educate me about this ...
thanks.

[fvoelling]

My guess would be calibrated and using the volume control of the amp (unless you bypass the preamp section and go directly into the power amp section assuming your amp allows you to do this). But wait for somebody else to confirm as this is really just a guess.

Just wanted to let you know in case you hadn't heard that Benchmark has a recall on some of their units (something about a wrong fuse). Check their Web site for more details.

Frank

[audiofan]

Thanks, fvoelling. I don't have DAC-1 yet.