My RMB-1077 review.

[DrJRapp]

>> Similar to the fact that owning any of the products does not extend the human hearing range <<

Loss of dynamic details & compression can clearly be heard. With PWM this extends into the audio band.

Martin: just how many hours have you spent listening to the 1077 to make your determination that there are audible loss of dynamic details and the compression is audible?

[shadow]

Ah you know the answer to that question Jerry! :P

[Miguel]

Also, just for kicks, I have had the opportunity to listen to SACDs on my (once very highly touted) Denon 2900 SACD player on both the 1075 and 1077.

Jerry, sorry if this is a silly question, but how did you feed the SACD signal from the Denon 2900 into the 1077? I'm asuming you had to use some preprocessor for volume control?

Thanks!
Miguel

[AVspec]

I am thinking about getting one of these amps and comparing it to my McIntosh MC225 and my QSC EX pro amps. Anymore reviews or info/comments on this amp?

[Dmantis]

Good debate guys,
I base my gear on listening, not spec's. The only time I look at spec's is if it can run my speakers. I own 4ohm speakers and make sure when I power them, the amp can be stable at 4 ohms. Alot of receivers are only stable at 6 ohms.
I'm completely willing to try anything audio and video. Digital or something completely new.Leaving yourself strickened by Spec's and being closed minded will never allw your system to grow.Thats fine if your cool with that but I like to be adventurous.
I plan on trying a RMB1077 in my system and I own the RMB1095.

Good luck with your new amp.

Dan

[DrJRapp]

Jerry, sorry if this is a silly question, but how did you feed the SACD signal from the Denon 2900 into the 1077? I'm asuming you had to use some preprocessor for volume control?

Thanks!
Miguel

Thru my RSP 1098 of course, sorry that I forgot to mention that ...it has aways been a constant.

[Jmac]

I'm probably the odd one out here in that I like Rotel, almost certainly will own Rotel kit in the future, but don't own any at the present time.

However, I do have an complete Naim Audio system. A brand regarded as one of the best analogue makes on the planet.

For HT 'add-on' purposes, a year ago I purchased one of the new Sony 9000ES series digital amps, in this case digital switching, as against analogue switching, such as the new Rotel 1077.

I initally used it just for decoding & driving the rears; pre-outs to the Naim amps driving the front Naim speakers, however some months back I had a listen to the Sony kit on it's own, with my Naim speakers, as a prelude to separating it out completely and getting some el-cheapo speakers for it to create a separate HT only system. Lets face it, it was only (in most audiophiles eyes) a mere 'Sony' or if you will as some wish to derogatorily (IMHO) describe it 'Jap Crap', yet I have been completely bowled over by how very good on 2 channel music it is indeed, and for less than half the cost of the Naim amplifcation.

It is not just cheaper, it is better sounding, overall. Yes, given the swings and roundabouts of HiFi there are two things that the Naim 'does' better, but for everything else, the Class D digital Sony is better in all the areas that matter subjectively, and as best as I can judge it, objectively as well.

Bear in mind that whilst I am something of a perfectionist, I come from a musical background of study and performance in the classical arena, and musical reproduction and involvement as found in real life will always be my final criteria; for me the kit exists to play the music, the music does not exist to demonstrate the kit. This audiophile side of the hobbie is perfectly valid IMHO, but personally I'd rather listen to the music and not the kit, or worry overly much about the technology and specifications of how it is achieved. Good sound, is good sound.

What really does impress me about the 1077 (yes I have seen one, and heard one very briefly in-store - not really enough to give a clear picture, but I did like what I heard), the Sony STR-DA9000ES, and from reviews the Bel-Cantos, Nuforces, TACT, Lyngdorfs of this world is top shelf sound, at prices the enthusiast on a good income can afford, as against the mega-bucks required to get similar performance in an analogue behemoth amp.

I find the sound of Class D amps that I have heard, quite superb IMHO, and it augurs very well for the future as far as high fidelity sound, without the ridiculous 'price of a house' price tags IMHO. Sure, I have no doubt the top Classe, Naim amps etc of this world will better them in all likelihood, but I would be fairly confident from my own experiences that the differences in performance when A/B'd in say a blind test, will be very small indeed, whilst the cost wil be anything but. Law of diminishing returns again - Class D is much cheaper to build than an huge amp with a toroid transformer and expensive caps etc.

Nope, I reckon Rotel are on to a great thing indeed with this line of digital amps, and I wish them all the best with them.

Just my 2c worth.

Regards

John.. 8)

[Stevebez]

On the other hand - and I am probably in for a great deal of stick for this - but Class A/B is not the be all and end all of amplification. Its inefficient and as some owners of the RB1095 can testify the occasional transformer / ground hum is present. Although I have not experienced any of this hum in either my 1075 or 1080, but big transformers are more prone to do this than smaller ones. Less efficient speakers can mask this quite well.

So my point is neither Class A/B or Class D is perfect ... yet. But we are a hell of allot closer than we were before on the Class D side. Class A/B design has perhaps reached its peak ... I dunno... food for thought though.

I just cannot help but think this is more and more a CD vs vinyl debate all over again.

Rgds Steve.

[JDH]

I wonder whether Rotel will release a larger version of the multi channel RMB-1077, ie. something around 7 x 200W class D equivalent to the RMB-1095 in terms of ratings but with an extra 2 channels and I assume well under half the size.

None of the digital amps seam to have balanced line in, while the analogue amps do, any reason for this?

Good debate guys,
I base my gear on listening, not spec's. The only time I look at spec's is if it can run my speakers. I own 4ohm speakers and make sure when I power them, the amp can be stable at 4 ohms. Alot of receivers are only stable at 6 ohms.
I'm completely willing to try anything audio and video. Digital or something completely new.Leaving yourself strickened by Spec's and being closed minded will never allw your system to grow.Thats fine if your cool with that but I like to be adventurous.
I plan on trying a RMB1077 in my system and I own the RMB1095.

Good luck with your new amp.

Dan

[miner]

The RB-1902 has a balance line-in for a CD player but not for a pre-amp.

[hifisponge]

While I don't currently own any Rotel gear, I'm quite curious about the 1077 and the 1092. Once Rotel releases their new prepro, they are on my short list for audtioning.

As I tend to be a "gear head", I do have some concerns about the supposed technical limtations that Martinf continues to bring up. Then again, I have been on boths sides of this type of debate and I ultimately chose equipment with poorer specs because it sounded better.

You see, I owned for a short time, a full 5 channel suite of KEF Reference speakers that I eventually sold for a full set of Paradigm Signature speakers. The KEFs are one of the few speakers that feature a super tweeter that extends the response up to 55kHz, and it was the promise of that response that attracted me to them (for use with with DVDA and SACD). Not to mention the technical advantages of the UniQ tweeter / midrange driver unit. Unfortunately, there was a sharpness or whiteness to the upper midrange / lower treble that made the speakers hard to listen to with all but just the right recordings.

After rather extensive auditioning of every speaker in my price range available locally, I settled on the Paradigms whose high frequencies "only" extend to 22kHz, and they use rather conventional driver technology.

In the end, even though on paper, the KEFs pretty much smoke the speakers I own now, I certianly wouldn't trade them. Quite frankly, I got burned by blindly buying the KEFs based on their specs.

Martinf - I think it time to step out of the theoritcal and into the empirical side of things. What is keeping you from at least trying the 1077? Though, and I hope I am wrong, at this point I'm not sure that you would provide an objective assessment of the amp. It seems you have too much invested in supporting your theories.

Cheers,

- Tim

[Stevebez]

The issue of freq respnse - is often quiet puzzling to me. The LIMIT of human hearing is around 20hz-20khz. Most of us cannot hear beyond 18khz anyway aged over 30 ... so I then wonder why is everone so fussed up about something that can perform flawlessly at 40khz+ ...???

Bass is different. That which you cannot hear you can physically feel so this to me is - by far - more important.

Sorry help me out - but I dont get it !!!

Regards Steve

[BWzes03]

@Stevebez:

It has to do with ambiance and harmonics. Harmonics of a certain frequency from an instrument is made up of multiple higher and lower harmonics which is part of the recorded material (SA-CD and DVD-A have the higher frequencies encoded as part of the recording) and to fully reproduce the recording, you would like to have all frequencies available, even if you cannot hear them.
When the higher frequencies are reproduced accurately, they will inherently be reflected troughout your listening room, bouncing of objects and reduced in frequency influencing the upper hearable frequencies.
This is 'part' of the ambience experience you hear at concerts and concerthalls.

I do understand what Martinf's gripe is, but his standpoint is a bit overly harsh toward the others though. BTW: a $2000 universal player is nothing special compared to some of the other users' equipment here. To each his/her own experiences.
(my own universal player with added audio modifications is about $2500, but I still prefer my Rotel RCD-1072 for playing Redbooks....)

[hifisponge]

BWzes03 -

Yes, but the speaker still needs to be capable of reproducing the ultra high frequencies. Most don't have usable output above 20kHz and even if they did, the sound at those frequencies is highly directional and will not be reflected off of the room. You'd essentially have to have your head in a vice, that is assuming that we can even hear that high. Most agree that we cannot.

- Tim

[AVspec]

While I don't currently own any Rotel gear, I'm quite curious about the 1077 and the 1092. Once Rotel releases their new prepro, they are on my short list for audtioning.

When is this new prepro supposed to be release and were can I find more info on it?????

[hifisponge]

When is this new prepro supposed to be release and were can I find more info on it?????

According to my dealer, the replacement for the 1098 is supposed to debuted at Cedia (in Sept) and released shortly after. There is all sorts of speculation in this Rotel forum about it's features. Search for 1099.

[AVspec]

Anymore reviews of the 1077? Anone compare the 1077 and 1092 since the 1092 is not getting the same praise.

[miner]

Anymore reviews of the 1077? Anone compare the 1077 and 1092 since the 1092 is not getting the same praise.

The professional reviews I have read on the 1092 have been very positive. My expereience with the 1092 is very positive and increases as each week passes. To me, all that matters is how I perceive the amp and its abilities.

[RebelMan]

Anymore reviews of the 1077? Anone compare the 1077 and 1092 since the 1092 is not getting the same praise.

I conducted an extensive evaluation of the RMB-1077 with the RMB-1095 and for grins with the Classe' CA-2200 a while back. The 1077 did surprisingly very well and in some ways bested the 1095 and gave the 2200 a run for its money. It's a bit pricy for a Rotel amplifier but don't let those 100wpc fool you. The 1077 is a very linear amp and it can drive some of the most demanding speakers on the planet. My recent experience with respect to the RB-1092 is less favorable, sound quality wise. But when used for certain applications, like HT for instance, the 1092 will make a fine addition. However, if your tastes also favor two-channel I would consider the 1077 instead.

[AVspec]

I conducted an extensive evaluation of the RMB-1077 with the RMB-1095 and for grins with the Classe' CA-2200 a while back. The 1077 did surprisingly very well and in some ways bested the 1095 and gave the 2200 a run for its money. It's a bit pricy for a Rotel amplifier but don't let those 100wpc fool you. The 1077 is a very linear amp and it can drive some of the most demanding speakers on the planet. My recent experience with respect to the RB-1092 is less favorable, sound quality wise. But when used for certain applications, like HT for instance, the 1092 will make a fine addition. However, if your tastes also favor two-channel I would consider the 1077 instead.

Very good news... as I do favor two-channel in my theater from time to time with DVD-A and SACD and might even get back into vinyl for the fun of it.

My 1077 is now on order and will post my thoughts as soon as I get to break it in and do some A/B with my QSC and McIntosh tubes.

It will be interesting to see how the 1077 handles the 4-ohm load of my Totem Model-1 sigs. as the QSC's even kick the fans in when I really let them sing.

[Andrew M Ward]

I conducted an extensive evaluation of the RMB-1077 with the RMB-1095 and for grins with the Classe' CA-2200 a while back. The 1077 did surprisingly very well and in some ways bested the 1095 and gave the 2200 a run for its money. It's a bit pricy for a Rotel amplifier but don't let those 100wpc fool you. The 1077 is a very linear amp and it can drive some of the most demanding speakers on the planet. My recent experience with respect to the RB-1092 is less favorable, sound quality wise. But when used for certain applications, like HT for instance, the 1092 will make a fine addition. However, if your tastes also favor two-channel I would consider the 1077 instead.

RMB-1077 What Hi Fi? - May 2006

"Like any home cinema product, the RMB-1077 goes loud. Very loud, in fact, and it refuses to harden up even at ear-splitting levels..."

"If that was where the good news ended, you'd be disappointed."

"Thankfully, the RMB-1077 offers much more. It has refinement, and a highly even tonal balance, which helps it sound natural regardless of the partnering speakers."

"Switch to music, and this power amp reflects Rotel's stereo heritage with a performance packed full of detail, dynamics and poise."

"Five stars."



RMB-1077 Hi Fi News - December 2005

"Custom install professionals are crying out for amps like this...there is simply no other multichannel power amplifier available that's this compact, elegant in appearance and cool-headed in operation."

"...this amplifier delivers a thunderous sound with no hint of hardness, stress, or strain."

"...the Rotel is especially capable of sustaining a marvelous sense of atmosphere and anticipation."



RB-1091 Mono power amplifier Hi Fi News - May 2006

"Monomorphic Marvel"

"As a stereo pair, the RB-1091 is typically very easy-going, painting its musical canvas with a garrulous spirit, a boundless enthusiasm barely contained by its kilowatt capacity."

"...it's in this guise where a clutch of five or more RB-1091's has the capacity to evolve a very good home cinema into an experience that's truly state-of-the-art."

RB-1092 Stereo power amplifier Hi Fi News – April 2006

“Pocket Rocket”

“The trouble this amp could cause if we all stopped worrying about brand names.”

“Even if we factor out snob appeal, the Rotel clearly has much with which to seduce you, massive amounts of power being the most obvious. It actually sounds great, with a more-ish silky character that allows you to sit there for hours without fatigue.









:P

[Aussie Geoff]

Andrew,

Thanks. I haven't heard the - RB-1092 (they aren't in Aussie yet). But I love my my RMB-1077 and continue to be impressed at the depth of its abilities... Rebleman is right - they are a surprisingly good stereo amp - I don't regret selling my (also very good) RB-1080 and RMB-1075 for it.

I have also spent some time listening to the RMB-1077 bi-amping the front 3 speakers in a B&W set-up and that was astonishly good. The 1077 and the 803Ds had a sense of superb clarity and effortless power that easily bested much more powerful Macintosh's IMO.

The Class D sound of these amps (like those of the Bel Canto Evo and the NuForce) takes a while to adjust to. The midrange in particular is (to my ears) even more detailed and revealing, creatng the forward sound stage effect. Some people just don't like this. However (for the 1077, Bel Canto and Ref 9.02 at least, which I know well) most people adjust and become seriosuly impressed by the technology.

Geoff

[Andrew M Ward]

Andrew,

Thanks. I haven't heard the - RB-1092 (they aren't in Aussie yet). But I love my my RMB-1077 and continue to be impressed at the depth of its abilities... Rebleman is right - they are a surprisingly good stereo amp - I don't regret selling my (also very good) RB-1080 and RMB-1075 for it.

I have also spent some time listening to the RMB-1077 bi-amping the front 3 speakers in a B&W set-up and that was astonishly good. The 1077 and the 803Ds had a sense of superb clarity and effortless power that easily bested much more powerful Macintosh's IMO.

The Class D sound of these amps (like those of the Bel Canto Evo and the NuForce) takes a while to adjust to. The midrange in particular is (to my ears) even more detailed and revealing, creatng the forward sound stage effect. Some people just don't like this. However (for the 1077, Bel Canto and Ref 9.02 at least, which I know well) most people adjust and become seriosuly impressed by the technology.

Geoff

Geoff,
Well said, and of course you know I agree with you...

[DrJRapp]

Anymore reviews of the 1077? Anone compare the 1077 and 1092 since the 1092 is not getting the same praise.

I consider myself somewhat of an expert on the 1077, and recently got to a/b it against the 1092. My comments are that the 1092 is every bit as good as the 1077. However, considering both it's price and power point, it should blow the 1077 away.

[Audiophiliac]

I think the 1077 has a perfect nitch in the market. And it does very well. Look how small that thing is!! I would MUCH rather install 10 of those at the top of a rack than a single 1095/1080 combo. Not just from installers point of view, but ask anyone out there which they would rather carry home, and try and stuff in their cabinet or rack. They will 99% pick the 1077 over the huge 1095/1080 package.

I really think the class-D craze will evolve into something that changes amplifier technology forever. It might be a refined version of what is out now, or a completely different idea that spawns from it. But I am afraid the days of 100 lb. amplifiers that need wheels on them to move, are numbered.

[Andrew M Ward]

I consider myself somewhat of an expert on the 1077, and recently got to a/b it against the 1092. My comments are that the 1092 is every bit as good as the 1077. However, considering both it's price and power point, it should blow the 1077 away.

Doc,
I consider you an expert on the 1077 as well, I am always curious as to your next post or thoughts on these new amplifiers.

[pciav]

Here is another review of the 1077 from Audio Revolution.

I replaced an ATI 1806 with the RMB 1077 several months ago, and I could not be happier. Instead of cluttering these pages with another review that I can not put into words as well as already has been, the best thing I can say is forget the nomenclature and do yourself a favor listen for yourself and let your own ears decide.

Phil C.

[shadow]

Here is another review of the 1077 from Audio Revolution.

I replaced an ATI 1806 with the RMB 1077 several months ago, and I could not be happier. Instead of cluttering these pages with another review that I can not put into words as well as already has been, the best thing I can say is forget the nomenclature and do yourself a favor listen for yourself and let your own ears decide

Phil C.

Well, I would like to hear what YOU say. I am generally skeptical of professional reviews since they all have financial conflicts if they issue even luke-warm reviews, let alone pans. While an owner may want to justify his purchase of a component, there are so many competing choices out there that very few people in my experience are going to give a great review to a mediocre component, even if they bought it.

[Kobus]

A quote from the above review:

"The RMB-1077, like all Rotel amplifiers, doubles it's power as the impedance drops"

I assume they dont mean as impedence halves, as that will be untruthfull and make me loose faith in the whole review.

Yes pciav, your view will be appreciated.

Kobus

[pciav]

Well, I would like to hear what YOU say. I am generally skeptical of professional reviews since they all have financial conflicts if they issue even luke-warm reviews, let alone pans. While an owner may want to justify his purchase of a component, there are so many compting choices out there that very few people in my experience are going to give a great review to a mediocre component, even if they bought it.

Shadow,

I totally agree with you about professional reviews and posted the above link as it was something I recently came across. Let me clarify my above statement further. I should have said:

"Instead of cluttering these pages with another END USER review that I can not put into words as well as already has been said here, the best thing I can say is forget the nomenclature and do yourself a favor listen for yourself and let your own ears decide."

Reviews and specs are nice and provide a good basis, but if that is all you are going to go by, you will probaly miss out on many great products.

I will work on some thoughts for a formal review and post later.

Phil C.

[shadow]

Looking forward to your reveiw. I really enjoy these user reviews because if you get a fair number of them, you usually see a pattern of strengths and weaknesses of the reveiwed component. This information usually puts you in a better position to evaluate the component when you hear it yourself.

[AVspec]

"The RMB-1077, like all Rotel amplifiers, doubles it's power as the impedance drops but unlike conventional designs this one can run into 1 ohm loads safely while still pushing out 400 watts. It makes it ideal for low impedance speaker loads."

Now on Rotels site here: http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rmb1077.htm

It says 4 ohms minimum?

As I would like to run my two center channel speaks in parallel and they are Totem model-1's with 4 ohm impedance the question remains with the 2 ohm load will the amp have a problem or like the review mentions will the amp just love it up?

[mike c]

I heard there was a 5 star review of the 1077 in "WHAT HI FI" mag ... anybody got links? or scans?

[AVspec]

If you look back on page 2 of this thread:

RMB-1077 What Hi Fi? - May 2006

"Like any home cinema product, the RMB-1077 goes loud. Very loud, in fact, and it refuses to harden up even at ear-splitting levels..."

"If that was where the good news ended, you'd be disappointed."

"Thankfully, the RMB-1077 offers much more. It has refinement, and a highly even tonal balance, which helps it sound natural regardless of the partnering speakers."

"Switch to music, and this power amp reflects Rotel's stereo heritage with a performance packed full of detail, dynamics and poise."

"Five stars."

[AVspec]

Nothing is mentioned in the owners manual about "Rack Mounting" the RMB-1077? Does it come with ears for rack mounting it?

[Kevin D]

Nothing is mentioned in the owners manual about "Rack Mounting" the RMB-1077? Does it come with ears for rack mounting it?

Nope, you'll need a Middle Atlantic or equivalent shelf.

Kevin D.

[nikos]

Nothing new here...

but ran into another review.

http://www.aussiehifi.com/images/reviews/rotelreview.jpg

[AVspec]

http://www.avrev.com/equip/rotel_RMB1077/

This is from the above review:

"The black steel chassis of the RMB-1077 is 17-and-one-eighth inches wide and 16-and-three-eighths inches deep. The chassis has tabs on the front for easy rack mounting capabilities. The front faceplate has a platinum finish to it and features the Rotel name imprinted on the top. Rubber spacers on the bottom of the amplifier allow it to be stacked if rack-mounting is not desired."

So what does he mean "tabs"? It sounds like it is rack mountable from his review?

[Kevin D]

Sounds like an idiot reviewer.. The tabs he is referencing are the fake heatsink tabs all the 10 series Rotel units have. Aside from the rack-mount amps and fans Rotel sells, nothing from them is rackable out of the box.

Standard rack width is 19", I'm not sure how he would plan on mounting something that's only 17" wide.

Kevin D.

[AVspec]

Got to love your first sentence on the post Kevin LOL

Agreed.

Oh well, I have spare shelfs for my Mid-atlantic rack to set it on. It's not like it going to take up the space that the current 4 QSC EX pro amps take up....