b&w & rotel

**art vandeleigh** · 25 November 2003, 02:49 Tuesday

well, i dont have either of these goodies, but why would you want to upgrade to the signature 805? i dont know how much that would cost, but why not look into the nautilus floor standers? is it room that you dont want floor standers?

but with regards to the amp. krell i think is a true class A amp, while all rotel amps are clas A/B. along with other benefits of class A amps, i think the largest would be no crossover distortion.

i think you shoudl give it a try and se if you like the krell better, by the way which krell are you looking into?

**sikoniko** · 25 November 2003, 09:59 Tuesday

The signature 805 costs the same as the 804.

I should be happy w/ my setup. It sounds amazing. Im ordering the htm2 center on friday. I have a demo unit at home and it is a very full sound. I have always been an advovate for floor standing speakers, but since i demo'd these 805's I am truely impressed.

Its very strange, because Im sure a new sub, like a svs, would be a worthy upgrade, but Im not too concerned about it at this point. mainly because i live in an apt and in the past, the sub was the major complaint from neighbors.

Im not familiar w/ krell or any other amp makers to be honest.

The next step I should make though is a tv. Im thinking about a hitachi lcd, but I want to wait until the next generations come out, and of course i will need to upgrade my rears and think about 7.1 for the future...

**Mark_C.** · 25 November 2003, 10:12 Tuesday

I'm trying to sort all this out...

You're debating whether to go 805s or the Signature bookshelf? And if you do, do you need to change amplification, correct?

I'm using 805s and the HTM2 from my front three speakers. I have a 1075 to power them. If, for some reason, I decided to move up to the Signatures, then yes, I would change amplification. I would look for a good amp in the 200-watt per channel range. I would NOT automatically eliminate Rotel from the picture. The best thing to do, of course, would be to audition different amps in your setup to determine what you like best. Don't buy something just because the salesmas says you "must.''

**sikoniko** · 25 November 2003, 10:41 Tuesday

how do you like the 1075 w/ your speakers? I currently have the 1055 so I am only getting 75w/ch whereas the 805's are rated at 120w.

my dealer recommends at this point that i hold off on an external amp due to being in an apt at the moment. says when i get a house i should get an amp. would you concur on that? or should i start saving for the 1075 now? i have decided to pass on the signature speakers all together. i am happy w/ the 805s and there really isnt any reason to upgrade them.

i already have the 805's and i will be buying the htm2 next week.

**Andrew Pratt** · 25 November 2003, 11:45 Tuesday

Krell amps are very very good amps and I'd be very happy if my rack were full of krell gear...but unless I win the lottery there's no way I can justify the cost esp considering that similar powered krell and rotel amps will sound far more alike the different but the rotels will be much cheaper. If it were me what I'd do is get the best 2 channel amp you can afford for your mains then add a 5 channel amp to power the remaining speakers. You don't "need" a ton of power in an apartment but you'll find the added resolution in a nice amp will be audible even at low volumes. So with that in mind I'd suggest you look into getting the 1080 or 1090 for the fronts and a 1075 for the rest of the speakers...assuming of course that 2 channel is your "thing". If you're more into HT then maybe a 1080/1095 combo might suit better.

**aud19** · 25 November 2003, 13:17 Tuesday

Ditto what Andrew said. Krell makes some nice equipment that I'm sure none of us would mind having if we had the funds to do so.

You may indeed crave a little more power for your 805's than the 1075 can supply but there's no reason you shouldn't look at Rotel's larger amps as well as other companies, including Krell. Then let your ears and pocketbook decide what you prefer, not what the salesman prefers.

J.R.

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**sikoniko** · 25 November 2003, 14:37 Tuesday

so then maybe you guys can help me understand, if the 1075 is 120w, and the b&ws are rated at 120w, why would i need a more powerful amp? i understand that those are upper limits and that you wouldnt be pushing a 200w amp at 120w as much as 120w amp being pushed to its limits, but i dont really see pushing it that much anyways. i suppose when i get a bigger room, it would make a difference but id hate to push the speakers too much..

with that being said, why wouldnt i be just as well of w/ a 1070 and 1075 than i would w/ 1080 and 1095?

what does these products usually run anyways?

thanks,
dan

**aud19** · 25 November 2003, 15:22 Tuesday

Headroom baby, headroom! That and the more expensive the amp the better quality components in them, usually anyway. Also from what I know your B&W's aren't the easiest speaker to drive, requiring decent amounts of power. And amps, not just watts.

Try and think of it this way. If you're towing a trailer you could probably make do with the base engine in a truck. However, when you get to a large hill, having the larger engine would deffinately be benneficial. You'll get over the hill with either engine, the larger one will just do it more gracefully. In this representation, the hill represents dense musical passages or say an action scene in a movie with explosions, music etc. The more sounds and the more speakers that are producing them the bigger/steeper the "hill". The trailer is represented by your speakers. The less efficient your speakers or the harder they are to drive the heavier the trailer. Hope that helps.

Besides when it's other people's money, we have no hesitation in recommending the more expensive option

J.R.

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**Mark_C.** · 26 November 2003, 00:56 Wednesday

Sikoniko:

Don't worry about watts. The 1055 has plenty to power your 805s, especially in an apartment. There might come a time when you'll need more power, but I wouldn't sweat it.
The 1075 in my HT powers the 805s just fine. The combination is, in a word, superb! I could easily listen to my HT at 75 db all the time, but that's just too loud, and I live in decent-sized house. Don't worry if an amp is 200 watts per channel and a speaker is rated at 120. To damage such a speaker, it would have to be driven at outrageous volume for long periods of time.

**aud19** · 26 November 2003, 14:49 Wednesday

I think we can all agree that the 1055 will work just fine for now in your smaller apartment. I think what we were trying to say is if you decide you ARE going to upgrade your amp and your funds allow, a bigger amp will almost always be better. They quite simple give you better macro and micro-dynamics more headroom better driver control etc. But the only person who can decide how big of an amp and how much money you want to spend on it is you...

I personally own the 1075 and I'm VERY happy with it. That's not to say that if I could have afforded the 1095 I wouldn't have gone for it or the the 1098 over the 1066 for that matter. I just don't have the funds available...

J.R.

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**sikoniko** · 26 November 2003, 16:32 Wednesday

you all are going to think i am crazy. I have been talking to my fiance about the 805's and she hates them. not the sound, the way they look. she liked the look of the 604's better. She doesnt like bookshelf speakers, so I am going to compromise with her. the stands bother her. she doesnt like the "microphone" on the top either.. told her she'd have to live with that.

im going to get the 804's... im not going to tell her about the price difference.. (i am terribly guilty of omission) Just have to wait until after christmas.

**aud19** · 26 November 2003, 16:59 Wednesday

Ooooh the dreaded WAF or in this case FAF.... 8O If I can offer some advise.... Take her to the A/V shop with you so she has a part in the process. You may be pleasantly surprised, she may even want more expensive speakers than you! Plus if she feels involved in the excercise it will bode much better for your future LIFE together. Just be prepared to be patient and do a lot of explaining.

What are you using for your rears? I'm assuming some 600 series B&W's? If so then at least you can give her a reason for staying with B&W's and the "microphone" :LOL: for voice matching. Either that or you can hold off on the HTM2 and maybe exchange your 805's for a different brand that you like the sound of AND she likes the looks of.... (I know that may be a little painful but BELIEVE me it's less painful than a life time of evil glares from your wife re: your speaker purchase) Besides, she might let you get a whole new 5.1 system if she likes the other company

Then poof!.... a happy wife to be AND all new toys! ...yay!

Also...
If you do decide on the 804's you may be back to that nagging amp/power concern.... :?

J.R.

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**mac7719** · 26 November 2003, 19:12 Wednesday

Sikoniko,

I'm with you on the WAF issue. My wife also shot down the N805s. I guess they are too distintive for her tastes. I ended up with Dynaudio S1.4 for mains.

This brings me to your original question on amps. I have been running my S1.4s full range with a RMB-1075 since I bought the system earlier this year. Recently I started playing with the crossover in my RSP-1066 to see if I could affect a boominess issue in my room. I noticed that when I moved the crossover to 60Hz or higher, the mids and highs from my dyns opened up and became more natural sounding. I don't think I'm hearing things. I need to spend a bit more time experimenting. From what I've read, at 4ohms, dyns are historically difficult to drive. I don't know if this would change with a higher power amp or an amp possible of higher current. Perhaps I'll see if I can get a hold of a demo to confirm my theories. While all of this does not apply directly to your B&Ws, take it as another datapoint in your decision.

--Mike

--Mike

**greggz** · 27 November 2003, 03:03 Thursday

8O Boy, what a roller coaster ride. From the 604's up to the Sig805's then down to settling in on the N804's.

Make sure you spend some time with the 804's and audition them well. The Kevlar FST midrange driver of the N804 sounds distinctively different than the rubber surround Kevlar midrange/bass driver of the Sig/N805.

Also, if you go the N804 route, I would go with the HTM1 rather than the HTM2. Same reason. You'll get a better timbre match between the N804 and HTM1 than you will the N804 and HTM2.

:cry: Are you sure you cant talk her into the Sig805's? From everythig I've read, you've got to go to the N802's before you better the sound of the Sig805.

Gregg

**sikoniko** · 28 November 2003, 00:13 Friday

My plan is to upgrade my fronts and center to where they are going to be, and then stop for now. As part of the compromise, i will be getting in wall speakers (B&W of course) for my surrounds and not too clear at this point what I will use for rears in 7.1.

It is unfortunate, but my speaker cable, MIT Terminator2 biwire, is only 6ft long, and I am going to need to replace these before long. When I get a big screen, or even the htm1, I will need to ofset my receiver. I have been trying to prolong this. I love the sound of these, but it seems too expensive to purchase [MIT] again.

I already have my crossover set at 60hz. I didnt change it from when I had the 604s.

I must admit that the 805s sound great. I wonder what I will gain from the 804s. I know it is supposed to be a fuller sound, but the 805s sound incredibly full.

Unfortunately, my dealer does not have 804s in stock. There is another shop in town that does. Both shops recommend the 804s over the 805s for fronts though. Hopefully, I can go out there tomorrow and have a listen. It would be a significant price difference due to needing the new center as well.

Id be interested in reading the review you spoke of greggz, if you still have it handy.

Andrew, I apologize for taking this off topic. It would be nice to have a club b&w too eh? heh.

dan

**aud19** · 28 November 2003, 16:07 Friday

Originally posted by sikoniko

It is unfortunate, but my speaker cable, MIT Terminator2 biwire, is only 6ft long, and I am going to need to replace these before long. When I get a big screen, or even the htm1, I will need to ofset my receiver. I have been trying to prolong this. I love the sound of these, but it seems too expensive to purchase [MIT] again.

You could always try to sell the cable on the net to recoup some money to put towards longer lengths. Might make it less painful...

How's the fiance coping with the 804's by the way? :?

Jason

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**Andrew Pratt** · 28 November 2003, 16:22 Friday

It would be nice to have a club b&w too eh? heh.

Dan there is one here If interest there grows enough we'll make it a "real" club like Club Rotel

**greggz** · 28 November 2003, 17:14 Friday

Dan,

Check out Audio Asylum, http://www.audioasylum.com/index.html in the Speakers-General forum. You'll need to search on variations of N804, N805, S805 and Sig805 to see all the posts, but there are a lot of good comparison discussions (i.e. N804 vs. N805 and Sig805 vs. everything else in the Nautilus line).

The best (in depth) professional review I have seen so far on the Sig805's was in Nov 2002 issue of HiFi+ magazine. Its a UK mag that costs something ridiculous here in the US so I just read it in the Barnes and Noble.

ops:

Gregg

**sikoniko** · 29 November 2003, 13:15 Saturday

moved my b&w response over to the b&w forum. now, need to get people to start posting there. im debating invading that avs forum and advertising over here. lot of people seem to be bashing b&w though. i guess either you love em or you hate em.

anyways, here is the link:

http://www.htguide.com/cfboards/index.cfm?fuseaction=Threads.viewthread&CFB=1&TID= 80437&forum=42&StartRow=1

Now, I did leave room to discuss an amp. My thought is of buying a 1080 to power the 804s, but my concern is that the sound will further be unmatched by the center due to the amount of power going to the fronts. I feel that right now w/ my old matrix center while I am waiting for my htm2 to come in. I dont even want to watch a movie right now because its such a dramatic difference. Does anyone have experience w/ this that can recommend a path? I did get a suggestion for going for another brand other than rotel, but i think because of the other upgrades, it is going to be out of reach. would i be happy w/ a 1075 or would i still be underpowering my 804s in that it wouldnt be a significant difference over my 1055?

whatever I buy, it must carry on to a long term solution. no quick fixes.

gd · 29 November 2003, 14:43 Saturday

How about a 3-ch amp for the critical front 3 speakers?... there aren't that many out there, but you could try trolling Audiogon or other forum classifieds for a used RB993.

Or, new... there's significant amperage in an Odyssey Stratos HT3: http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products.html

Adcom makes one too: http://www.adcom.com/amplifiers/gfa5503.htm

Freed of the load up front, the 1055 would be more than adequate to power the rears.

b&w & rotel

b&w & rotel

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