Better 2 channel sound option ??

[mave]

I'm considering adding a RC-1090 (or 1070) to my RSX-1056 on the pre-out fronts to get a better 2 channel sound for CD's. I'll connect my CD directly to the pre-amp and not on the receiver.
Will this be the case and what will it mean to the sound of DVD's - these will be played through 2 pre-amps then.....

Thanks,

Mark

[Marlboroman]

Just try putting the receiver in analog bypass mode when you are playing CDs. This way the signal is not processed at all but simply fed through the volume control and directly into the amp.

SM

[mave]

Thanks, yes I know but I'm still not satisfied...... ops:
I'm curious if anyone knows if my options will result in a better sound.

[soundhound]

RSP-1068, I opted for that route and have been more than happy. It's the best of both 2 channel and processor in one.

[junior77blue]

I'm running an Adcom GFP-750 for my two channel in conjuction with Adcom GTP-880 pre/pro.

I have not done extensive A/B evaluation but mainly completed this setup to utilize the XLR outputs from my CD to preamp to amp.

It does make for a complicated set-up, (i.e., volume control) but it does provide for the best of both worlds. Pure 2 channel for stereo sources while possibly sacrificing audio performance during move watching....to me not a big sacrifice.

Need to buy a new remote with IR blasters to control each component individually.

[sprout]

I'm considering adding a RC-1090 (or 1070) to my RSX-1056 on the pre-out fronts to get a better 2 channel sound for CD's. I'll connect my CD directly to the pre-amp and not on the receiver.
Will this be the case and what will it mean to the sound of DVD's - these will be played through 2 pre-amps then.....

Thanks,

Mark

What did you think it sounded like when you tried it?

sprout

[mave]

I haven't tried anything yet. I'm hoping someone else has to hear their opinions. It seems not many people have tried....

[sprout]

I haven't tried anything yet. I'm hoping someone else has to hear their opinions. It seems not many people have tried....

The reason I ask is that it is your opinion that counts
Let your ears be the judge

[soundhound]

I did'nt fully understand the question on my 1st pass. The RSX-1056 will be the weak link either way you route it. If you take the 1056 main outs and run them into a 1070 or 1090 preamp it will gain you absolutely nothing. If you 1st run into a 1070 or 1090 and then into you're RSX-1056 this also defeats the purpose. The 1070 and 1090 will not "enhance" the 2 channel sound you get "out" from you're 1056, and the RSX-1056 will degrade (based on you're feeling of its 2 channel capability) anything you gain by having a dedicated 2 channel preamp going into it.

[junior77blue]

I think your still missing the question, but yet still understand.

The dedicated 2 channel sources connected to teh 2 channel preamp will be enhanced.

The multi-channel sources will not benefit, but *might* have some detrimental effect by going through the 2 channel preamp.

Only way to know, is to hook up and listen...

[gianni]

I did'nt fully understand the question on my 1st pass. The RSX-1056 will be the weak link either way you route it. If you take the 1056 main outs and run them into a 1070 or 1090 preamp it will gain you absolutely nothing. If you 1st run into a 1070 or 1090 and then into you're RSX-1056 this also defeats the purpose. The 1070 and 1090 will not "enhance" the 2 channel sound you get "out" from you're 1056, and the RSX-1056 will degrade anything you gain by having a dedicated 2 channel preamp going into it.

That's what he intends to do -- take the weak link (1056) out of the two ch chain. The 1056 is only powered up for movies and he is not looking to gain anything more from movies. His music source will be connected directly to the 2 ch preamp. This is about cleaning up the 2 ch path. The negligible or at worst small degradation imposed to movie sound by running the 1056 pre-outs thru the 2 ch pre is a trade off for some one who listens mostly to 2 ch with an occasional movie.

[soundhound]

I had initially done the RSX plus RC for 2 channel through a "y" adaptor into my RB-1080, and this can be cumbersom with the switching that takes place depending on source. I opted for the RSP-1068 which after burn in provides sweet 2 channel, and all the switching became automated internally, with only 1 set of main outs to the 1080. 80% of the time I listen to 2 channel music (analog bypass) and 20% of the time is a mix of dtv or dvd's. The best part of it all, you could get an RSP-1068 for equal to or less than you would have into you're RSX-1056 and RC-10xx combo

[Bam!]

I'm considering adding a RC-1090 (or 1070) to my RSX-1056 on the pre-out fronts to get a better 2 channel sound for CD's. I'll connect my CD directly to the pre-amp and not on the receiver.
Will this be the case and what will it mean to the sound of DVD's - these will be played through 2 pre-amps then.....

Thanks,

Mark

If your cd player has a volume control, you could plug it straight into the amp.

Question on this question :
««what do you mean by plugging it to the preamp and not to the receiver, do you have a second pre amp ?»»

[RebelMan]

Just try putting the receiver in analog bypass mode when you are playing CDs. This way the signal is not processed at all but simply fed through the volume control and directly into the amp.

Thanks, yes I know but I'm still not satisfied...... ops:
I'm curious if anyone knows if my options will result in a better sound.

mave, what is it about the analog "by-pass" setting (sound) on the RSX-1056 that you do not like? Are you sure that you are not ADC and then DAC the input (CD) signal?

[mave]

Thanks for all the input.
I know I need to listen first, bur borrowing a pre-amp isn't easy overhere :cry:
What I want is a sound that has tighter/heavier bass and a little less high. I feel these are the 1056 "problems" (also in by-pass). Maybe I'm wrong but am curious what other 2 channel listeners have chosen to solve this ( I know I need to listen...).

The Y adapter option is something to think about, thanks for that Soundhound.

If your cd player has a volume control, you could plug it straight into the amp. It has, I'll check that, but don't expect it to sound good. I think it's not the best pre-amp inside ( a Vincent CD-S6 by the way)

[RebelMan]

What I want is a sound that has tighter/heavier bass and a little less high. I feel these are the 1056 "problems" (also in by-pass). Maybe I'm wrong but am curious what other 2 channel listeners have chosen to solve this ( I know I need to listen...).

Hmm...are you using an external power amplifier (utilizing the pre-outs of the RSX-1056) in by-pass mode? This could be the weak link in your chain. The internal power supply of the RSX-1056 is less capable (and noiser) than a quality outboard power amplifier would be and will lack the dynamics you are seeking.

If you are looking for a good compromise between music and movies then a RSX-1056(pre-out) + power amplifier would be it. Otherwise you really should look into setting up a dedicated two-channel system and exclude the RSX-1056 altogether.

Note: I have driven my (very demanding) 803S's using the RSX-1056 (in by-pass mode) with and without the RB-1080 power amplifier. Musically speaking the details are all there in both cases. However, I find the use of the external amplifier to deliver much tighter control over the lower end frequencies and the quality of sound a little more crisp throughout the full range.

[mave]

I'm also having the RB-1080 added to the 1056. It doens't really help. Maybe... there's something wrong with it. It has been in repair a few times due to fuse problems. They also changed resistors, which I think caused the sound to change but they tell me that's not possible..

So you think the tighter/stroner bass is something you won't reach by using a seperate - better quality - pre-amp between the 1056 and the RB-1080 ?

[Stevebez]

I have a 1068 & 1080 for fronts and 1075 for surrounds and center ... (currently in only 5.1 - with some surplus channels on the 1075). I find the 1068 is fabulous in 2 channel mode and have no motivation to try and improve on it in any way.

If you use the multi input bypass - it should be damn close to any dedicated pre-amp. (I don't even use the multi inputs - as I find I it uneccesary).

Would be interested in your results of a side by side demo. I doubt you would notice any major difference if any difference at all.

Rgds Steve.

[gd]

It's been a little unclear up to this point, but I think I now get what you're trying to accomplish -- fuller bass when listening to pure 2-channel music.

I don't think you'll achieve a dramatic difference by adding a power amp... there may be a subtle difference by using an outboard preamp in bypass, especially another Rotel... those solutions will likely yield better detail, clarity, soundstage -- but not fuller bass... you might noticeably 'warm' the sound some with a tube preamp, but at the expense of some sonic imbalance when playing 5.1 material.

I think what you should look at are your speakers, esp the fronts... are they capable of full-range performance?... rather than experiment with electronics -- you've got very decent Rotel components anyway -- you might try adding a small subwoofer... hook it up to the front speakers via the speaker-level connections, and run your mains as 'large'... I think you'll resolve your 2-ch full-bass dilemma (if that's what your objective really is), and keep the system sonically balanced for 5.1 movies and music.

[RebelMan]

-- you might try adding a small subwoofer... hook it up to the front speakers via the speaker-level connections, and run your mains as 'large'... I think you'll resolve your 2-ch full-bass dilemma (if that's what your objective really is), and keep the system sonically balanced for 5.1 movies and music.

If he is "truely" running the system in by-pass mode then the signal passed to the mains is the full signal. Unfortunately, not all subs will allow for high-level inputs. Perhaps his mains are sorely lacking in the bass department, as you suggested. What are you using for speakers mave?

[bigburner]

gd and RebelMan, if you look at mave's previous posts he already has a REL sub connected via speaker-level connections.

mave, what sort of bass are you getting out of your REL? Have you experimented with the settings on the REL?

[mave]

The REL does help. Without it the 2 channel sound is very "thin". I've actually just returned my RB-1080 in order to have it checked. A few months ago they changed resistors and since then it's not the POWER amp it used to be.
In fact I feel it's no loger adding something to the sound.

The reason I came up with the idea of adding a seperate pre-amp (or a integrated) was that I borrowed Chario Millennium 1 speakers from my dealer. They sounded fantastic on his NAD Silver edition amp. When at home on my set up it was a huge dissapointment. The sound stayed inside the speakers and had no power (the strong/tight bass for Metallica or Nora Jones (contrast !) for instance was no where to be found).
My dealer suggested to add a (pre)amp because the 1056 was not capable for these speakers (4 ohm)... So got curious if some of you have done that and what the results were. I expected problems in 5.1 because the sound comes from 2 preamps in such case.......
Thanks for all the input. I'll let you know if Rotel found something wrong with the 1080.....

[RebelMan]

gd and RebelMan, if you look at mave's previous posts he already has a REL sub connected via speaker-level connections.

He doesn't mention it in this thread but thanks for the heads up.


mave, the RB-1080 is very capable of driving 4 ohm loads and combined with the RSX-1056 for two-channel playback it should not sound that thin. I suggest you double check your bass management settings. I still think this is the primary source of your problems.

[gianni]

mave,

Using my rsx-1055 without an external amp, I've experienced no lack of bass.
If you have eliminated the speakers and their palcement in your room, I would start looking for other problem areas.

Upgrading electronics may bring improvements but they will likely not be dramatic. If you now have weak bass, I doubt an amp will cure this nor would a preamp. The exception being that there is something wrong with your 1056 or setup.

Have you considered room acoustics? Also you may try another reciever in your system or take yours to the dealer, put it in his system and dee how it performs vs his demo.

[mave]

Bass management couldn't be the problem as I'm using analog bypass in stereo. I'll wait what Rotel says about the 1080. They suggested that if that's not the problem it might be the 1056...

I'll follow your advice and wait before spending any money on an additional pre-amp. Thanks for all the replies !

[RebelMan]

Bass management couldn't be the problem as I'm using analog bypass in stereo.

Just checking, as you may know what we think may not really be. Another thing to consider are your speaker connections, both ends. If they are connected out of phase you may notice a severe lack of bass response. As trivial as it may sound, it is an often over looked possibliity. Good luck!

[bigburner]

mave, I know that this is highly unlikely, but was the balanced/unbalanced switch on the back of your 1080 set correctly? If you use unbalanced interconnects, and the switch was set to balanced, it would explain the lack of performance that you were experiencing.

[mave]

>>mave, I know that this is highly unlikely, but was the balanced/unbalanced switch on the back of your 1080 set correctly? If you use unbalanced interconnects, and the switch was set to balanced, it would explain the lack of performance that you were experiencing.<<

Long live bigburner !!!

Well... It's not unlikely !! I picked it up yesterday from Rotel maintenance and the guy didn't know this might be the cause until a colleque of his suggested this might be it.
They changed the bias a little but this cannot be the "upgrade" I'm experiencing ! They (and I) thought if that button was wrong you wouldn't hear anything at all. I somehow must have hit the button while changing speaker cables or something.

Thanks for your help !!

[thyname]

You can actually try it now and you'll see: if you switch it "balanced" it will still work, but it will really sound lifeless. I tried in my rb-1080 just of curiousity. Sometimes those guys at dealers' don't know as much....

[bigburner]

I somehow must have hit the button while changing speaker cables or something.

I've taped over the switch so this doesn't happen.