My poor RB 1090....

[SoundMeister]

Thanks to UPS, this is how I received my RB 1090 today:

http://community.webshots.com/user/soundmeister2000

I had bought it last week on Ebay for about $1300 delivered.

[gianni]

A moment of silence is in order.

Then, raise hell for a new one.

[thyname]

Maybe it is not UPS to blame, but the man/woman for packing it! Of course they won't treat it well on different trucks and facilities UPS has, but come on, we all know this, that's why they should be packed carefully (double-boxed, etc..)

[PewterTA]

If the 1090 is packaged anyway like the 1095....it's in there like a tank... Someone had to hit the thing pretty darn hard...heck it had to be dropped from about a good 5 feet onto the "corner" of something for the right (back left if facing the unit) side to be messed uplike that. I guarantee the box had to be messed up pretty bad. You should've not accepted the package...

Definitely take it back to your dealer and file a complaint (either you or your dealer) and get the money back plus damages to it. Get a new one!

I bet UPS didn't like the thing since it's so heavy (heck they won't accept anything over 80 or 90lbs I believe...so they were probably pissed at having to have picked that up....

Sorry to hear about it...but definitely get that replaced!

[Taito]

Tragic... fight them on it. No amp deserves that kind of treatment!

[csuzor]

SoundMeister, bought on ebay, does that mean you purchased used from the previous owner? In that case, not much you can do, it seems, unless you noted the package was damaged when receiving from UPS...
At least it's the backside... no damage up-front? still functional?

[SoundMeister]

Although purchased off of Ebay, the previous owner used to be a regional rep for Rotel, this being his personal sample. He provided a full blown receipt, on original company stationary, for warranty purposes. The serial number and the selling and shipping cost are written on the receipt. Also, he accepted my payment directly over the phone with my Visa card, not via PayPal (although I could have used PayPal too, had I wanted).

There was no obvious damage to the outside of the box, because the inside foam padding took the brunt of the impact. The front of the amplifier as well as the back, are protected by two separate and specially designed form-fitting shapes made of very thick white polysterene foam. Well, this foam is completly crushed and almost cleanly penetrated-through, where the rubber feet on the back plate are. This could have only happened if the box was somehow dropped. With this beast of an amplifier tipping the scales at about 90 lbs, I am quite sure it did not need much height to be dropped from, in order to get that kind of damage. I would speculate, 2 to 3 feet at the most probably. The box was clearly marked at the shipping point by UPS, as having over 70 lbs.

[weijst]

Unbelievable! Let us know how it turnes out...
Good luck!

[csuzor]

This is not the first (and probably not the last) story I hear about UPS damaging HiFi goods in shipping. A friend had 4 speakers (2x shipment of 2 speakers) fully damaged, really ugly damage, the sides of the boxes were completely cut. The dealer made a claim to B&W, and got the 1st set exchanged by B&W, they acknowledged their boxes weren't great... but the 2nd exchange was refused, the dealer had to make a claim to UPS. The dealer replaced them, and then tried to get money back from UPS insurance, not sure he got far. They sound like the worst shippers. I have a UPS account, but I won't use them for anything heavy or susceptible.

[mourrri]

SoundMeister,

That is very sad indeed, I can imagine how pissed you must be. What options do you have ?

Hope things turn out right,

Rick

[Zoran]

Horrible pictures! Someone deserves cruel punishment!

I would get heavy stomac sickness day by day if must live with such sadly disabled innocent amp...

Get new one, good luck!

[Andrew Pratt]

Having dealt with insurnace claims on items damaged in shipping I feel for you. They do come though eventually but its a long and drawn out process.

[SoundMeister]

I have a UPS account, but I won't use them for anything heavy or susceptible.

Unfortunately very few shippers accept boxes heavier than 70 lbs (I know for a fact that FedEx does not), so they pretty much are the only game in town for really heavy items.

[lucho]

Hello everybody. I'm new in this forum. Guess why? I just got a Rotel RSX-1056. I'm still waiting to receive the unit. Hope is not UPS. I'm getting nervous now.
I'm using an Onkyo 601 receiver. I was thinking in upgrading to a Denon receiver. Reading info about it on the internet, I got to this forum and I changed my mind and went for the Rotel. You guys are great. Nice info in this forum. Once I get it I am going to compare it to the Onkyo side by side for 2 or 3 days to and find out how good or bad my ear is.

[RickF]

Unfortunately very few shippers accept boxes heavier than 70 lbs (I know for a fact that FedEx does not), so they pretty much are the only game in town for really heavy items.

Sorry to hear about the 1090 SoundMeister, hopefully it will be taken care of.

Actually FedEx does make shipments up to 150 pounds, anything over 150 pounds gets shipped in a specialized manner...but FedEx will ship it.

FedEx shipping.

[dermie999]

Not sure about this but logically I would have thought if the seller is quoting shipping prices then the responsibility for the shipment is between the seller and the shipper (ie if the item is damaged in shipping then the seller should replace it and claim on the shipper).

Poor consolation for you SoundMeister but using escrow for high value items purchased on ebay is probably a good idea too.


Trevor

[RebelMan]

SoundMeister, I am sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Perhaps the seller will work with you and the shipper to amicably resolve this matter.

...the responsibility for the shipment is between the seller and the shipper...

According to UPS claims policy this is correct.

[mitch57]

What is escrow?

[dermie999]

The dictionary definition of escrow is "Money, property, a deed, or a bond put into the custody of a third party for delivery to a grantee only after the fulfillment of the conditions specified".
In simplistic terms it works this way. Both parties agree to use an escrow agent and the buyer sends his money to the agent. When the money is received the agent advises the seller who ships the goods. When the buyer advises the agent that the goods are received in good order and condition the agent pays the seller (less a share of the price for the escrow service). Its good protection for the buyer and the seller (mainly for the buyer) and is almost mandatory for high value items unless you want to take the risk of blowing your money.

There is an escrow agent on ebay or you can find your own.


Trevor

[mitch57]

Thanks Trevor. How does Escrow differ from PayPal? Doesn't PayPal work in the same fashion?

[dermie999]

Doesn't PayPal work in the same fashion?

I don't think so mitch57. My understanding is that PayPal is just a secure payment scheme. They simply securely organise the buyers payment payment and send to the seller who then (if he's honest and above board) send the goods on to the buyer. This system really only protects the buyer. If the buyer sends the seller shoddy or goods not advertised it then becomes the buyers responsibility to try to rectify.

The escrow agent receives the sellers money but doesn't pay the buyer until the seller advises the goods have been received. This system protects the seller as well because if the goods are shoddy or damaged the buyer does not get paid.

This is not much use for SoundMeister but I was simply trying to alert others that if you are buying high value items like Rotel Home Theatre then escrow offers protection against damged or shoddy goods being sent. Ebay themselves recommend escrow for goods over the value of $USD400.


Trevor


Trevor

[mitch57]

I don't think so mitch57. My understanding is that PayPal is just a secure payment scheme. They simply securely organise the buyers payment payment and send to the seller who then (if he's honest and above board) send the goods on to the buyer. This system really only protects the buyer. If the buyer sends the seller shoddy or goods not advertised it then becomes the buyers responsibility to try to rectify.

The escrow agent receives the sellers money but doesn't pay the buyer until the seller advises the goods have been received. This system protects the seller as well because if the goods are shoddy or damaged the buyer does not get paid.

This is not much use for SoundMeister but I was simply trying to alert others that if you are buying high value items like Rotel Home Theatre then escrow offers protection against damged or shoddy goods being sent. Ebay themselves recommend escrow for goods over the value of $USD400.


Trevor


Trevor

I'm confused... Don't you mean the escrow agent receives the money from the buyer but doesn't pay the seller until the buyer informs the escrow agent that the goods have been received?

I certainly understand protecting the buyer but it seems like the seller can get the brunt end of the stick even if the seller sends an item in the condition which was agreed upon by both parties.

What happens if the buyer decides he doesn't want to pay the "agreed upon price" or doesn't like the "agreed upon condition" of the unit? It seems to me that all the buyer would have to do is tell the escrow agent that the condition of the item is not what he expected.

Maybe I'm missing something here. What options does the seller have to protect his interests and insure that he gets paid?

[dermie999]

Yes mitch57 you are right I got the buyer and seller reversed. The escrow agent holds the money until the buyer advises they have received the goods and then pays the seller.

The protection for the seller is if the buyer advises that the goods received were not as advertised then as I understand it the buyer returns the goods and when the seller advises they have received the goods only then is the money returned to the buyer.

You might argue that this seems unfairly biased towards the buyer but as a frequent buyer on ebay (who has never had any trouble with any seller) ask me if I would be prepared to send a seller a few thousand dollars of my money and hope I get the goods in good order and condition (if at all) and I would answer not without some protection (ie escrow). Remember too the seller doesn't have to agree to use escrow - the agreement must occur before the purchase is effected - he can walk away from that buyer and noone is affected. Buying on ebay is not without risk and escrow is a way of mitigating that risk for high value purchases.


Trevor

[JDH]

Thanks to UPS, this is how I received my RB 1090 today:

http://community.webshots.com/user/soundmeister2000

I had bought it last week on Ebay for about $1300 delivered.

From the photos it does look terminal, however it might still actually work with a few minor internal repairs, if your stuck with no insurance to cover the damage it might be still usable if the main boards attached to the heat sinks are OK.

It will never look fantastic but probably won't effect the sound quality. In terms of the damaged case it looks like you will need to seek the services of a motor vehicle panel beater.

[thyname]

Thanks to UPS, this is how I received my RB 1090 today:

http://community.webshots.com/user/soundmeister2000

I had bought it last week on Ebay for about $1300 delivered.

It is probably much simple guys, I would assume that the seller has insured for the full value (it is logical to do so with expensive equipment, and it is cheap, at least with UPS Ground that I have experience with). Just talk to your seller, send him the pictures, and he would probably be able to solve everything with UPS.

[SoundMeister]

A bit of an update....

I am not sure if I had already mentioned this, but the seller had insured the whole thing for $1500.00, although I paid out of pocket about $1300.00 including shipping.

I had already started the claim processs with UPS, and sometime next week, a claim processor for UPS will call me and come by to have a first hand look at the damage. In speaking with the UPS claim rep. over the phone, she told me that indeed the package was insured for $1500.00, so the good thing is that the seller did not fibb about the insurance.

Now, my question to you all is: should I ask to be reimbursed for the 1300 only, or should I insist on getting the 1500, for which insurance was purchased.
In order to replace mine, most likely I would probably have to buy a demo unit from a local Rotel dealer for about 1700 and tax.

[SoundMeister]

From the photos it does look terminal, however it might still actually work with a few minor internal repairs, if your stuck with no insurance to cover the damage it might be still usable if the main boards attached to the heat sinks are OK.

It will never look fantastic but probably won't effect the sound quality. In terms of the damaged case it looks like you will need to seek the services of a motor vehicle panel beater.

The main boards are cracked quite badly where they are held in place with the top screw to the heat sinks. I cannot see too well all the way down to the bottom screws, but I am assuming they are at least, as bad as the top. I tried to take some pictures (and posted them in webshots) of the top screw damage for the left and right boards, but they did not come out too well.

[DrJRapp]

In order to replace mine, most likely I would probably have to buy a demo unit from a local Rotel dealer for about 1700 and tax.

Most people don't understand how insurance works. You should be seeking the $1500. The purpose of insurance is to put you in the position you would have been if the loss never happened. If it costs $1700 to do so, then the insurance company is obligated to pay the face value ($1500). If on the other hand another unit was available for $1300 then that is all they would have paid.

[kurtholz]

Hi SoundMeister

My two cents, i have a lot of experience with all the shippers, as i ship items all over the world, my experience with UPS is good, they send a guy out, he will do the soft denial, try and get you to buy off on improper packaging,

i was nice but very firm, they paid very quickly,go for the $1500, that's what you paid for

they will look at the shipping box, make sure you have it

good luck

Kurt

[SoundMeister]

^

Thanks a lot for the input Kurt...
Yes, I kept EVERYTHING :T that came with the amplifier: box, foam surrounds, additional padding, everything.
I will shoot for the 1500 then...
I will even show the guy where I intend to purchase the replacement and how much it costs.

Thanks again to all for the input.

[kurtholz]

Hi SoundMeister

It will happen, but you are walking thru a minefield, i would just keep it simple, they dropped it, it's insured, cut me a check,

i wouldnt get into it to much, if they figure out it's used, could be a problem,( my opinion, i really don't know if it matters) but

less is more,

more free advice, :-)

good luck

Kurt

[SoundMeister]

Thanks Kurt...
I will keep that in mind. :T

Cheers, SM.

[dermie999]

Good luck SM. Just keep in mind they have an obligation to ensure you don't end up out of pocket.


Trevor

[phillipk]

Looks like a drag. If I were UPS I'd want to see the box too. How do they know the unit wasn't damaged before it was even sent? UPS is famous for treating boxes with heavy hands. But, I've always had them pay when I made a claim (more than once).

[chinets]

My deepest condolences for that RB 1090. I am very sorry that this happened to you.
I wish you all the luck in the world with the Insurance!!!! Be Firm!!! and GOOD LUCK!

[KathyMason]

I never even use UPS anymore. I haven't had good luck with them. They damaged so much by the time it gets to my door. They even delivered a box that had a big hole on it, they taped it up, left it at my door, never said a word about it. When I saw the box, I called UPS right away and when the UPS guy finally got out here to look at it, we then opened it up and it looked like a pole went through the box, crushed and broke the door on the microwave, broken glass and microwave was bent as well. I asked the guy how in the world could something like this happen with a pole or something like that causing this kind of damage. He had no answers. I called UPS and talked with them about it and they acted as they could care-a-less attitude and said it was insured, fill the paper work out and we will pay it back. I filled the paper work out and they were pretty quick about paying me back for the microwave since it was insured but how a pole went through the box is something I just don't understand. I think UPS really needs to train these people to handle things with much better care. I also had ordered a Micron Computer a couple of years ago, and UPS dropped it and that had a big dent in the computer box, the computer didn't work, Micron sent me another one and didn't even bother to get payment back from UPS! They should have! :E

No more UPS for me until they can get their act together, even US Mail has been a better way for me shipping, haven't had any damage yet from them or FedEx. UPS insurance cost most be outragous with how much they damage. I wouldn't want to be their insurance company!! There rates must be very high for someone to cover them.

Sorry you won't get to hear the Rotel RB-1090, it's a great amp. I have one and love it. One of Rotel's best. Hope you can find another! It's a great one to have.

[aud19]

I won't even start on my FedEx story... :evil: :F

But I'll say I've had much better luck and service (knock on wood) with the US and Canadian postal services than any of the courrier companies :T

[soundhound]

Great icon Aud19

[DrJRapp]

UPS trains their people to load and unload their trucks as quickly as possible. This means that pieces are just dropped to the floor from standing height. Nobody ever bends over. If your piece is fortunate to be the third or forth up from the bottom of the stack it doesn't have far to fall. If it's at the bottom you can be assured it has been dropped three or four feet. Worse that that, the opportunity to get dropped increases based on distance travelled and how many times the piece is transferred from truck to truck. Also, don't believe that marking a box "FRAGILE" makes any difference. :cry:

I have all this information from my wife's son who works late nights unloading and loading for UPS. Dropping stuff from standing height is such a habit with him that when he is around the house he will handle things here that way too. He'll pick up a remote control use it then drop it from standing height onto the coctail table:E

[thyname]

UPS trains their people to load and unload their trucks as quickly as possible. This means that pieces are just dropped to the floor from standing height. Nobody ever bends over. If your piece is fortunate to be the third or forth up from the bottom of the stack it doesn't have far to fall. If it's at the bottom you can be assured it has been dropped three or four feet. Worse that that, the opportunity to get dropped increases based on distance travelled and how many times the piece is transferred from truck to truck. Also, don't believe that marking a box "FRAGILE" makes any difference. :cry:

I have all this information from my wife's son who works late nights unloading and loading for UPS. Dropping stuff from standing height is such a habit with him that when he is around the house he will handle things here that way too. He'll pick up a remote control use it then drop it from standing height onto the coctail table:E

Wow!!! That is shocking to know!!