Adding a subwoofer to a 2 channel setup?

[thyname]

Anybody uses a subwoofer for listening to 2 ch music? My Rotel dealer suggested I buy one, even though I had told him I am interested for stereo only. I have also read this suggestion at some message boards. I know that I am able to add a subwoofer to my RC-1070, but is it really necessary, or the dealer was just trying to sell me something I don't need? I think my Axiom M60s deliver quite tight and accurate bass with their dual 6.5" woofers, but the dealer said that any floorstander cannot deliver the "thump" that subs deliver. I wonder what this "thump" means with music. Here are the specs of my Axiom M60ti floorstanders:

Millennia M60ti Specifications
Enclosure: Triple Vortex / Reflex
Max Amp Power: 250 Watts
Min Amp Power: 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz): 37 - 22kHz Graph
Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz): 27 - 22kHz
Impedance (Ohms): 8 Ohms
SPL in Room1w/1m(dB): 93 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(dB): 89 dB
X-Over 200 Hz & 2 kHz
Tweeter: Single 1"
Woofer: Single 5.25"
Sub Woofer: Dual 6.5"
Dimens. H W D (inches): 37.5" x 9.25" x 15"
Dimens. H W D (mm): 953 x 235 x 381
Weight (lbs) each 45 lbs
Weight (kg) each 20 kg

The tempting fact is that, if the sub would really improve my music experience, then this is money is well spent since a sub can be used in my future HT system. I would love to read here some of your experiences.

[RobP]

Hello, I would suggest using a sub. I use one with my B&W N803's and wouldnt have it any other way. I use it for both 2 channel and HT. Just make sure that you get your crossover settings and level set correctly so it blends in and isn't overpowering.

[Kens1]

I prefer not to use a sub for listening to music in 2 channel. I have a sub, but use it only for HT. No matter how I fiddle with the crossovers I still find it a little distracting. I find my L & R speakers have all the bass I need for music.
Mind you, I have heard monitor speakers set up with very fast musical subs that sound great, but my sub is very big and made more (in my opinion) for HT and going really low. Not all subs are great at playing music and you get a very sloppy/ boomy bass.
If you are already happy with the bass response you are getting with your speakers I would not waste the money on a sub.

[Stevebez]

Tough question really and it comes down to taste mostly ... but...

There are more and more sound tracks today that use the very low frequencies ... probably a pass through from the LFE channel in movies and producers know many people now have HT setup with a sub and are producing music to utilise that resource.

Organ music (not that I listen to organ music!) can reach very low - and beyond most floor standers - and this can certainly benefit from a sub. And again some modern soundtracks have really low bass bordering on the sub-sonic and similarly cannot be fully / accurately reproduced by floorstanders.

Most importantly though adding a sub frees up your fronts by placing less stress on your amp driving them. Be cautious on the cross over you use though higher than 80hz then you start being able to recognise the source of the sound and the sub will attract attention. This it should not do - it should merely comeplete the sonic spectrum. But if you don't mind this then a cross at 100hz should be considered as this is the region that places the most stress on amplifiers.

Also some subs have different "sound" to others some sound really loud - but may be inaccurate - typically found in the cars which boom-boom down the road. Some are really very accurate - and thats what I personally like. True reproduction of the source. There are only a handfull of subs who can do this right, but unfortunately are really pricey. So before buying a sub you MUST listen to it first to see which type suits your taste best, should you decide to get one.

Subs are really the only way to get the REALLY low frequencies (i.e. 20-50 hz range) accurately reproduced, so depending on your music preference and your tastes ... its really up to you and your ears!

Rgds Steve

[i_amadeo]

it is a matter of taste i would rather u give a thought to 5.1 or (7.1 channels which idont think any body uses ) but any way give a listen to dvd audio indulge your self life is too short for 2 channels

[audiofan]

thyname,
I have the same setup you have . M60 produce good bass, but not real tight. Until i treat my room with acoustic panel and bass trap, M60 now is much much better. The bass is not boomy.

I'm not a fan of 2-channel music + sub, even though i was trying it before with my Denon avr-3805. Unless, you like extreme bass, then get a subwoofer for music. Also, it depends on type of music you are listening. If you like Rap, for example, then subwoofer will be needed.

Note that how CD recorded also affects the sound.

In general , a good sound system depends on a lot of things.

good luck.

[thyname]

Note that how CD recorded also affects the sound.

I agree, I can really tell what CD has a good production or a bad one right away now with my new RC-1070/RB-1070 combo. I also agree with Steve that a sub will free my RB-1070 from many of its duties.

Anybody has any opinion on Axiom EP350? I can buy it, have it home, and try it for 30 days. If I don't like my experience with 2 channel plus sub music I can turn it back.

[NewBuyer]

Personally I was considering the Axiom EP500 DSP sub.

I too am interested in finding a sub that will excel for music. Stevebez and other members, I (and thyname perhaps too) would love to hear some suggestions from you please regarding subs that are extremely accurate and thus excellent for music.

[RobP]

I use a B&W ASW850 with my 803's, It is very tight and fast for a 15" which makes it perfect for music IMO. I do have to comment about the fact that alot of people think that sub frequencies only appear in newer recordings or rap music. If you think this, then are missing alot of the action. I listen to Jazz, Rock, Classical, Blues, Big Band, and many other oddities which have no classification, each one of these catagories can all have sub bass in them. Some of the low frequency information helps in defining the sound of the room that artist recorded in, it adds a whole abmbiance to the music. If you ever get the chance to hear a live band performance, be it any type of music, you will hear and feel low frequencies that even the best sub cant reproduce. Next time you do, take a moment and listen for them and then imagine that performance without it.
I do believe that alot of subwoofers are inacurate and are geared towards the wow factor of the consumer. But there are some out there that are well designed, some are pricey and some are not.
Your subwoofer should also vanish from your system once it is set up properly, you should not be able to localize it. Its sad that we spend more and more money for our speakers and our equipment to vanish and not get in the way of the music. :

[thyname]

Anybody any sub suggestion? HSU seems to have a good one (VTF-3 mk2). Also they use a stereo cable to connect it to a stereo pre amp and not a single cable like Axiom sub does. Anybody knows if this makes a difference?

[benny]

I bought a Paradigm PW2200 to complement my Studio 60s. I have a similar rack to yours, but I run the sub a little differently than a lot of others do. I ran AQ RCAs through the second set of Rc1070 preouts ditectly into the sub. I let my RB1070 push the Studio 60s full range, and let the sub just fill out some "thump" with the crossover set very low (45-55hz). I find with the low crossover point, plus with the mains still palying all the way down, the center bass image is still sharp and not blurred. Now you will just feel that little extra kick when the bass drum hits, etc. There are a few recordings, though, where I heard low frequency info that I hadn't heard without the sub.

[booktrunk]

It really is down to your taste.

If you can have one on a home demo to experiment with and listen to in your settings then that would help!!

I've got a Rel subwoofer and have a hard time deciding. For some things it's brilliant and for others it's just not suitable for Movies the sub just sits there and does it's job I find tht if I used it for CD's then it takes more tuning and I find what can be good for one cd isn't necessarily good for the next cd.

If you can get one on trial go for it and have lots of fun deciding for yourself.

Steff

[rhoffman000]

I'd highly recommend checking out the offerings from SVS. You won't be dissapointed and they have subs at almost every price point (well, $400 & above).

[soundhound]

Hear Hear to SVS. Accuracy bar nothing. Not muddy, boomy, just plain old hammerin accurate. Plus I believe they have a pretty good return/ exchange policy. I have a 25-31pci and can't imagine anyone returning one except to maybe fill a larger room.

[rhoffman000]

I'd reckon to say that SVS has the best customer service of any company in the audio world. Anyway, back to Rotel.....I think you'd benefit from a sub with just 2 channel. I'm a two channel guy and love the versatility that a sub brings.