Stereo: A pair of 703s, or a pair of 805s plus a sub??

[thyname]

Hi there everybody!

I am a regular member of the HTguide, even though never posted on B&W Club. My current setup includes:

Rotel RB-1080 stereo power amp.
Rotel RC-1070 stereo pre amp.
Rotel RCD-1072 cd player.
Axiom M60ti floorstanders.
Some quality speaker cables and silver interconnects from Doug.
Belkin PureAV PF60 power console.
Harmony 880 universal remote.

I currently use a Sony HTIB for movies. I plan on moving to my own house in about 6 months, but can't help thinking on my next steps on audio now. Most likely, I will build my HT in my future basement (hopefully!!) with Axiom speakers all the way and a Rotel RSX-1056 receiver, as I think it will be enough for movies.

However, I am thinking of using my current Rotel stereo gear in a different room (probably living room), and I would need new speakers, as I will try something different from Axiom. Before I got my Axioms, I had the chance to audition some B&W 703s and really, really liked them. Budget is always a concern though and comparing 3000 dollars with 900..... However, now I am willing to consider 3000 for a pair of 703s, or, as somebody suggested, a pair of 805s (retailing 2500) with a sub (HSU VTF-3 MKII come to my mind, retailing for around 700). Unfortunately, my B&W dealer, who is also a Rotel dealer, and where I have purchased my Rotels, did not have any 805s in stock, and I only had the chance to listen to 703s.

Any advice you may have guys for me, on which one of the options to choose, will be highly appreciated!! I am little uncomfortable with using a pair of bookshelves with a sub, as I am afraid I won't be able to tweak them right. In a short note, a week ago I listened to some family friend system, comprised of some Totem Reference bookshelves, coupled with a subwoofer with a tube stereo preamp and Passe class A power amp, and was blown away!!! It sounded so good!! However, my friend told me that B&W 805s are better than his Totems. I can't tell you anything about the room dimensions, as I don't own a house yet, and this system will be built in my future home, and not my current apartment.

[junior77blue]

804S would be my choice...lol

700 series are nice, but 804s are just that much sweeter...

[js24]

thyname,
do you wanna buy my cherry 703s? it is ~ 9months old MINT no mark

$2250?
PM or email me if you're interested

[audioqueso]

What kind of music do you listen to? This is a very important because the 700 series are better suit for a wider range of music than the 800 series. I own a pair of Nautilus 805 and Velodyne SPLR800 sub. The combination is gorgious to me. I love it... BUT the 805s really disappointed me when matched with a Rotel. I use a Marantz pre-amp and a Parasound 200w amp. I listen to jazz, hip-hop, rock, balads, classical, funk, country... I can keep on going, but pretty much every type of beat. I auditioned the 704s vs the 805s (without a sub at the time) and even though the 805s did a whole lot better with voices, in general the 704 would have been a better choice at that time. However, I say this only because I was listening to both speakers through a Rotel setup. My wife ended up buying me the 805s, and I was happy. I purchased several Rotel amps to test out and the 805s sound good with my jazz and classical and mellower music, but for rock and rap it was just too 'polite' as someone once worded it. It really sounds too soft for that kind of music. I didn't like the Rotel, so I continued to audition amps. At the end I found that for the price, the Parasound amps sound great with the 805s regardless of what music I throw at it. I just added my Velodyne sub (I wanted a sealed sub), and combined with my Parasound-powered 805s, all jazz, balads, classical sounds very natural and all rock and rap sounds strong. I'm very happy with the 805s and sub combination, but like I've already stated, I did not like the 805s as much as the 704s when combined with Rotel equipment.

[audioqueso]

One last note, compared to the 803-805 series (excluding the 802+ since I've never heard them with movies) I think the 700 series is better with movies.

[PavelL]

But why not a pair of 703s AND a sub /which could be added later/? 703 with it's FST driver is much better IMHO for voice reproduction and for the midband in general... But before you make a decision do listen to both 703s and 805s. To me 703 sounded somewhat "cool" - they lacked that warm sound that I liked at the time.

[PavelL]

And by the way the whole 700 series was designed to be used with 2!!! subs. /I read it somewhere - I guess it was a B&W press release/

[junior77blue]

2 subs? Why would you NEED two subs??? With ANY stereo speakers??

[csuzor]

I have the 703s, and recently listened to the 805S at the store with the same amp, but did not enjoy it, not enough presence, I didn't feel the singer was there with us in the room, but the 703 brought him back into the room.
As for using a sub, nothing wrong with adding a sub to the 703 later, but I still haven't, and many purists will tell you they prefer larger speakers and no sub, because they can "locate" the sub, so it sounds wrong.

[thyname]

thyname,
do you wanna buy my cherry 703s? it is ~ 9months old MINT no mark

$2250?
PM or email me if you're interested

Very tempting, but I can only pull the trigger once I have purchased my new home, probably, in 6 months or so.

Thank you guys for all the advice. I mostly listen to power metal (see my avatar). I have more than 350 redbook CDs with that music, as well as some melodic death, heavy metal, and thrash metal. I also listen to... surprise....some crossover musicians like Andrea Bocelli, Sarah Brightman and Enya occassionally. I like the sound of Rotel with my music, and I am going to stick with it. I also like Axiom/Rotel combination, especially for the highs and midrange, but I am looking for something "fuller" in lows, and "warmer", or I am probably simply driven by the desire to upgrade. I believe, that we don't know how "better" something can sound before actually getting it. I totally understand the logic behind 2 full range speakers without a sub for stereo, but I was blown away by the sound of the Totems with the sub at my friends' house. I never felt the base coming out of the sub there, it was so well integrated with the music, with such a great presence. I guess I'll have to find a different dealer at my area (Northern VA, Washington DC) to audition both 805s and 703s side by side. Unfortunately that was not the case at my current Rotel/B&W dealer.

[audioqueso]

With the fact that you said you like metal, I really would recommend the 703 over the 805. But even more, with a combination of the 805 with a Rotel I think it will sound too soft for your taste.

I have the 703s, and recently listened to the 805S at the store with the same amp, but did not enjoy it, not enough presence, I didn't feel the singer was there with us in the room, but the 703 brought him back into the room.

Here's another example of what I was talking about. But also keep in mind, that as previously mentioned, the 700 series is a bit more forward than the 800 series. So csuzor statement about "...not enough presence, I didn't feel the singer was there with us in the room, but the 703 brought him back into the room..." makes perfect sense.

My recommendation for you is the 700 series.

[thyname]

With the fact that you said you like metal, I really would recommend the 703 over the 805. But even more, with a combination of the 805 with a Rotel I think it will sound too soft for your taste.



Here's another example of what I was talking about. But also keep in mind, that as previously mentioned, the 700 series is a bit more forward than the 800 series. So csuzor statement about "...not enough presence, I didn't feel the singer was there with us in the room, but the 703 brought him back into the room..." makes perfect sense.

My recommendation for you is the 700 series.

Thank you Juan for your recommendation! I really had a feeling that this would be the case, as far as the difference between 703s and 805s. Since you mentioned series 700 in general, do you think that I would get the same sound with 705s (bookshelves) plus a sub, compared with 703s? In that case, since the 705s are priced USD 1500 for the pair, they would make much more monetary sense for me. How about 704s, is there a difference with 703s, apart from the extra bass driver?

I also have a concern: My Rotel RB-1080 power amp is rated 200 wpc at 8 Ohms. 705s and 805s are rated in a range below 200 watts in terms of power handling (for example, 705s are rated 50W – 120W into 8Ω on unclipped programme). Would this be a problem?

Again, thank you all for your assistance!

[audioqueso]

I did not listen to the 705s that much because at the time I only auditioned them without a sub and I didn't like them. Though on paper the freq response was similar to the 805, the 705 was more lacking in it's lower range. This will effect you in that even if you add a sub, there will be an audible gap in the upper low frequencies. So I didn't give it much chance after that.

When I listened to these speakers the setup was with a Rotel 1080 as well matched with the RSX-1055. From the 700 series, I started listening to the 705, didn't like it, went to the 704 and 703. Honestly, I did prefer the 704. I found the bass to be a bit tighter. The 703 did have a lower range, but not by that much to my ears. I didn't feel the extra thousand was really worth it with the 703. So I started to listen to the 704 vs 805.

Don't worry about your amp being too much. B&Ws love power. The 800 series is the worse. I think 200watts will be alright with 703/704. I'm feeding 200 watts to my 805s and I've maxed it and it sounds as though it can still handle more. Besides, when I auditioned the 704s, they were being powered by your same amp. Do Rotels have gain controls to adjust how much power to output? Well, that's all I have to say about that.

I still think a 704 or 703 will be your best match for your taste and equipment. Let me know how it goes or if you have any other questions.

[weijst]

Pricetechnically, I'd audition the 704's if I were you...

BUT, here it comes: why not look for a pair of N804? You should be able to find yourself a pair for under the newprice of a pair of 704's and you'll be topping both the 704's and the 703's that way...

[thyname]

Pricetechnically, I'd audition the 704's if I were you...

BUT, here it comes: why not look for a pair of N804? You should be able to find yourself a pair for under the newprice of a pair of 704's and you'll be topping both the 704's and the 703's that way...

Is N804 from the discontinued Nautilius series? Do you mean that is comparable to the quality of 804s? I would be curious to know if any B&W dealer still carries any discontinued model.

[audioqueso]

The N804 is the Nautilus 804. But I doubt any dealers have them. Only demo models would be left, but I'm sure they're all sold by now. If you are interested, audiogon would be your best bet.

[bigburner]

I mostly listen to power metal

704's plus a sub. Wire the 704's through the sub with the high-pass filter "on".

[weijst]

704's plus a sub. Wire the 704's through the sub with the high-pass filter "on".

Bigburner, please explain me what the difference is between wiring the speakers through your sub using the sub's high-pass filter and connecting the sub to the 'sub pre-out' on your recievers / processor, setting the high-pass filter in the pre-amp section...

[grit]

Bigburner, please explain me what the difference is between wiring the speakers through your sub using the sub's high-pass filter and connecting the sub to the 'sub pre-out' on your recievers / processor, setting the high-pass filter in the pre-amp section...

I'm guessing on this because this is what my 1068 does (assuming the stereo receiver is the same).

When you use the receiver's crossover, it converts the signal to digital, sends the appropriate signal to the sub, and coverts back to analog. This analog->digital->analog process (in the 1068 at least) does not sound as good as the sound you get with the pure analog bypass.

So, if you run the speakers through the sub, you can get pure analog AND still integrate your sub. That idea doesn't work so well with a HT setup, but for 2-ch stereo, should work fine.

[thyname]

As far as I understand it, I would need to run the speaker cables from speakers to the sub high-pass connection and then to the amp. My Rotel RC-1070 has a second RCA out to be used with a sub if needed. I wonder what the difference between the two methods is. Again, for now I only have Rotel RB-1080/RC-1070 combo with Axiom speakers without a sub. My initial question was about upgrading for a second stereo system with B&W speakers in the near future.

Bigburner: Price wise your 704 plus sub idea sounds very reasonable (especially since you noted that it would fit my metal music applications). Why not 705s plus a sub then, since can be cheaper?

[bigburner]

Bigburner, please explain me what the difference is between wiring the speakers through your sub using the sub's high-pass filter and connecting the sub to the 'sub pre-out' on your recievers / processor, setting the high-pass filter in the pre-amp section...

I assumed that thyname would be using his RC-1070 preamp which does not provide a sub pre-out facility.

[bigburner]

As far as I understand it, I would need to run the speaker cables from speakers to the sub high-pass connection and then to the amp. My Rotel RC-1070 has a second RCA out to be used with a sub if needed. I wonder what the difference between the two methods is. Again, for now I only have Rotel RB-1080/RC-1070 combo with Axiom speakers without a sub. My initial question was about upgrading for a second stereo system with B&W speakers in the near future.

Bigburner: Price wise your 704 plus sub idea sounds very reasonable (especially since you noted that it would fit my metal music applications). Why not 705s plus a sub then, since can be cheaper?

The difference between the two methods is as follows. If you connect your main speakers to your RB-1080, which is connected directly to your RC-1070, the speakers will receive the full range signal. This is OK if they are full range speakers with substantial low frequency drivers, but less OK if they are bookshelf speakers (for example) with limited bass handling capability. When you turn up the volume your bookshelf speakers will struggle to handle the bass.

If you wire your speakers via the sub you can use the high-pass filter in the sub to stop the low frequency signal being sent to your main speakers. This prevents them from getting stressed at higher volumes. To wire your speakers this way you must connect your sub to your RC-1070's RCA output and then connect your RB-1080 to the RCA output of your sub. The speakers are still connected to your RB-1080 the same way as in method #1.

I would prefer the 704s to the 705s because quite a lot of bass will still be played by the low frequency driver in the 704 even when using a high-pass filter. The high-pass filter in my sub is set at 80Hz. Even at this setting a lot of the bass still comes from my main speakers. Therefore having a low frequency driver in your main speakers is desirable for playing music at high volumes.

[thyname]

I assumed that thyname would be using his RC-1070 preamp which does not provide a sub pre-out facility.

It is true RC-1070 does not have a Sub-Out outlet, but it DOES have a second RCA outlet that can be used for the sub, at least, this is my understanding.

Thank you for the second post bigburner, now I really understand what I have to do. Thank you for your advice too.