Power cord for your Rotels

[voxy]

Hi Guys

I am wondering what kind of powercord would pair well with your rotels. Hence I would like to do a survey of the type of cables our forumers are using before I start buying one. Please state the type of equipment (amp. cdp etc) and the powercord brand/model you are using. Thanks. :wink:

[DrJRapp]

I use the ones that came with My Rotel components. There is no proven evidence, including several double blind tests done with ultra high end equipment and excruciatingly expensive power cords that reveal that upgrading power cords yeilds any tangable sonic benifit. Of course you may have money buring holes in your pockets and just have to have the latest and greatest useless accessory, so go out and buy the most expensive ones you can buy.

[Kevin97225]

I agree with DrJRapp.

I was curious about this and tried to replace mine with fair priced to expensive ones and I could hear absolutely no difference, then started
to read the same from many other people.

Now I'm only running what came with the Rotel and it does very well.
You will do just fine with the stock cords that come with Rotel.

[Kyle]

Kevin, this is OT (sorry voxy), but is that avatar of yours really your setup?

[voxy]

Of course you may have money buring holes in your pockets and just have to have the latest and greatest useless accessory, so go out and buy the most expensive ones you can buy.

I don't have that amount to spare and that is why I post to ask.

Anyway, I cannot totally agree with your comments as I had been on that path before (changing to DIY type for budget setup) and it did yield audible improvements and even my wife also agrees to that. I think the main impact of a "better" powercord is a reduction of EMI hence the sound is cleaner. However a lot of hi end equipment do not need such an upgrade due to the superior grounding that comes with it eg Krell, ML etc.

On the other hand, I do agree that changing of powercords has diminishing returns when the equipment has good grounding design or a high grade power distributor is used.

[voxy]

I agree with DrJRapp.

I was curious about this and tried to replace mine with fair priced to expensive ones and I could hear absolutely no difference, then started
to read the same from many other people.

Now I'm only running what came with the Rotel and it does very well.
You will do just fine with the stock cords that come with Rotel.

I wanted to but I had a 1075 which did not come with it bec I got it off used :roll:

[Kyle]

Why is it that the stock rotel power cords aren't grounded?

[DrJRapp]

Why is it that the stock rotel power cords aren't grounded?

Some are and some are not. Depends on the design of the individual component.

[DrJRapp]

I think the main impact of a "better" powercord is a reduction of EMI hence the sound is cleaner. However a lot of hi end equipment do not need such an upgrade due to the superior grounding that comes with it eg Krell, ML etc.

If EMI is the culpret, then it is not the grounding schemes but the power supply filters that eliminate it. Rotel pays A LOT of attention to power supply design, it's one of their strongest points. So Rotel can easily be classified with the best in that regard.

[Marshal]

It seems that Rotel amp is not very good one when replacing power cord doesn't make any difference. Check out PS audio web site for more info on power cords and why they are power cords the most important cables in every HT system.

[Marcel B]

It seems that Rotel amp is very good one when replacing power cord doesn't make any difference.

Marcel B

[DrJRapp]

Check out PS audio web site for more info on power cords and why they are power cords the most important cables in every HT system.

I did check out that site and what is said is that a well constructed cable can reduce emi's effects on noise generated by the equipment itself, by a small amount. Let me quote "Using a PS cable will help reduce this noise somewhat because of the ferrite material in the jacket. However, this can only reduce small amounts of the noise. The real answer lies in the location of the power cable. Next to your AV equipment."

Most higher end equipment, including Rotel, is well shielded against emi. As the PS site said, the real answer lies in the location of the power cable. Carefull routing of the power wiring, i.e. not running it parallel with signal cables, using well constructed interconnect cables with proper shielding, twisted pair speaker wiring can prevent EMI and other setup deficiencies all of which are addressed by most of us when we set up our gear, and can accomplish the same thing as an expensive power cable at little or no cost. If one is unknowledgable and careless in setting up and wiring their gear, many unpleasant things can happen even with the best gear.

As an example, I once was asked by a friend to troubleshoot a small buzz in his computer audio. My friend is very anal and neat and had carefully bundled all the wires behind his computer and had wiretied them all together in a nice tight and neat bundle leading to the floor. The solution was simple. I cut the wireties and made sure the power cords were separated by a few inches from the signal cables. Any EMI generated by even the poorest power cable only extends out millimeters beyond the cord itself.

I suppose an aftermarket cable can act as a "band-aid" in poorly thought out or executed sytem wiring, and could for the unknowledgeable and inept be the most important cable in their system.

[basementjack]

I agree with DrJRapp.

How is it that your ac power can come through miles of rubbish cable, into your electric panel, through your house wiring (probably 14 guage) and somehow the last 6 foot piece of wire is going to make a difference?

The only reason I've ever considered replacing my power cables is to buy shorter ones so I don't have so much wire bunched up under the rack.

- Jack

[Claude D D]

I agree with DrJRapp.

How is it that your ac power can come through miles of rubbish cable, into your electric panel, through your house wiring (probably 14 guage) and somehow the last 6 foot piece of wire is going to make a difference?

The only reason I've ever considered replacing my power cables is to buy shorter ones so I don't have so much wire bunched up under the rack.

- Jack

Some power cords are designed to act as a filter.
I can't believe how narrow minded some of you guys can be in reguards to the benifits of changing power cords.I was a huge sceptic myself until I got to have some hands on experience with different cords on different systems.
On some systems or components there may be little or no difference.But on others I have heard dramatic differences.
In general I have found that changing to a better power cord on your front end(CD/DVD player)will in general make the most inprovement,then the Pre/Pro.With the most subtle changes in the power amps(but not always).
There are many cost effective options out there.Pretty decent DIY cables can be made for $50-100 and there are good commercial options in the $50+ range.
If changing a power cord in your system makes no difference,that's great.But many of us have experienced improvements.
Don't knock it until you try it,in your own system.
Having and open mind and trying different things to maximize your audio/video experience is what make this a great and always changing hobby. :T

[Fishy]

I have just connected up some 18AWG cables to all the equipment, but ran out of time before I could test it.

But I do still need to get some form of mains conditioner as well.

Fish

[shadow]

About all that needs to be said about power cords is contained in a blind test run at the Secrets of Hi Fi. The author is an enthusiatic believer in all things cable. He had recently done a rave review on the Nordost Valhalla power cords which cost well over a thousand each. He remarked how great an improvement the power cords made in the sound of his system. Subsequently, he and a couple of audiophiles did a blind test with the Nordost and generic cables. Bottom line, no one in the test was able to pick when the Nordost was in the system even half the time. While I would like to believe that all these power cable innovations make for better sound, the proof is not there.

[Claude D D]

Ignorance is bliss. :T I just read that a panel of audiophile experts claim that if you stick cheesies in your ears there will be no perceived difference in the sound from having no cheesies in your ears.
Guess they forgot to actually listen to music through the system.
Never trust anyone that calls themself a ........phile. :lol:
Anyway no more from me on this topic.I gotta go finnish eating my bag of cheesies.

[Dmantis]

As much time as you guys do thinking about it , I suggest your ears be the judge if it makes a difference or not. I for one love nothing more then tweaking my system.

I use the PS AUDIO power port outlet with a deadicated 20 amp run. Kimber Kable Pk10 power cords. I found a great deal of detail and dynamics after I did the upgrade.

Every system is different. A friend of mine has the rsp1066 , rmb1075 and the rb1070. He used the Ps audio Director power port and all Ps audio power cords and It changed is sound for the better. It made a huge difference. His speakers are Dynaudio and wire he uses is Transparent.

If you don't at least give it a shot , how can you find out if it helps your system??? Make sure you can return the power cords if they do nothing in your system

Dan

[Kyle]

Dmantis, I think most of us have at one point or another, bought upgrades based on looks, name or wow factor and have convinced ourselves that they really make a difference. When a team of people do a double blind test and can't reliably tell the difference, I tend to believe it more than my personal experience, only because I'm familiar with how I can convince myself that my money was well spent.

[voxy]

Well... didn't know that it turn out to be a sensitive issue.

Anyway just to add, it is a combination of power conditioner and power cord that will make a diff. Power cord alone has little impact on the overall sound. I had a diy star grounded - hospital graded power distributor and it helps even the picture coming out from my TV set. By adding some diy cables(shielded) to the cdp, the improvements are significant. I certainly had cross this path after reading russ andrews website :T

http://www.russandrews.com/viewindex.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&article_id=pgabout&customer_id=PAA1479024305679VHXMBGVUEDZDSSIX

At least some of the things he said makes sense to me.

[DanR]

Tried a $100 power cord on my now sold RB-1090 and it made no difference. I truly believe most of the cable argument is garbage. Yes, buy a quality cable- but some people go to ridiculous extremes. They tweak every aspect of their system constantly- I WONDER IF THEY EVER LISTEN TO THEIR SYSTEM FOR ENJOYMENT OR IS EVERYTHING A TEST DEMO OR A/B TEST?????????? Kind of sad because the music is secondary to these people and the quest for something that will never be reached is most important. No offense to Rotel, but if people want the ultimate in sound, buy better equipment! Robert Harley makes a great point in his Ultimate Guide to Home Audio by saying that cable cost has nothing to do with materials or labor but perceived market value. The "audiophiles" who go out and pay thousands for a pair of cables are to blame for the absurd prices. Any of you check out what copper costs these days(even hi-purity copper(6-10ths))? How about teflon? If your answer is no-Guess what... you are being HOSED!!!!! You could go to any hardware store and make your own cables for pennies on the dollar or less than what these companies charge. It is also cheaper to run a dedicated line to your equipment so there isn't any bad AC reaching your set-up.

[zeppelin]

Powerchord do yield a difference by not much but you can hear it, if you got a proper setup of your HIFI and in an acoustically room treated. Most of us don't hear it because of our room are not properly treated and our sound setup in a room are not properly balance.

[basementjack]

Voxy -

Thanks for posting the link to russandrews - I didn't have time to read all of it, but so far much of it makes sense.

DanR -

Good points, And I agree a dedicated circuit is a must for a number of reasons, at a cost of well under $100 if the person is capable of doing it themselves.

Zeppelin - you might be right, maybe our equipment/rooms/ears aren't of high enough caliber to detect such differences. For that we should be thankful!

[Marshal]

I can distinguish every single power cord in my system with blind listening and yes they make a huge difference. Problem here is that most people buy RB-1090 to blow their brains out with heavy metal music instead of serious listening of quality music. They don't even notice when someone changes CD, for them everything sounds the same.

If you use $1,000 power cord on some cheap Chinese receiver you will not hear any difference but if you use it on Krell, Levinson equipment then you will be astounded.

[Kevin97225]

This always seems to be such a debate! Some really believe it and some don't. It really all balls down to what you want to believe that works for
you and pays your money!

Kyle, yes that is my setup. It's Rotel and Klipsch combos. Here's a couple
of pics of it.

[Kevin97225]

I disagree Marshal, I listen to serious music with the RB-1090 and it's a great amp for that. Believe me, it reveals. I don't listen to any heavy metal music, a couple reviews even said the RB-1090 came very close to the Levinson 336 and a couple of others that are many more times it's cost. Just because it's Rotel doesn't mean that it's a cheap chinese amp. Many quality products now come out of china from many companies now-a-days. Made in China no longer means what it once did, as Made in Japan did in the 1950's & 1960's.

[basementjack]

Kevin,

Is that really your setup or is that a photo shop cut and paste trick?

It looks like you have two duplicate sets of identical rotel equipment, and 3 identical speakers on each side.

Whatcha got going on there???

(sincerely interested)

- Jack

[Kevin97225]

It's really my setup, not photoshop. If you study it close enough, you will find no alterring. Yes, the two systems is the same setup, except one
has two pairs of Klipsch RF-7 speakers and the other, only one pair of Klipsch RF-7.

I was so pleased with the 1st Rotel and Klipsch combo, that I purchased a second for my office so I can listen to music there when I'm working. The two systems won't be staying together like you see it, only set it up to test and break-in, so one set will stay there and the other will go in the office.

System:

2 x Rotel RB-1090
2 x Rotel RC-1090
2 x Rotel RCD-1072
2 x Rotel RT-1080
6 x Klipsch RF-7

Here's a pict. with the covers on from a different angle.

[voxy]

ok, as I am now setting up my new house. Would it be better to connect directly to the mains or should I route them via a conditioner??

BTW Kevein, that is an awesome setup!! :T

Just for info, if any of you travel to Shanghai, try to get one of those Xindak power cords. They cost only a fraction compare to export prices.

[basementjack]

Kevin, that's fantastic! :T
makes sense now!

You do realize you are probably in the top 1 percent of spoiled forum members?

[Claude D D]

I disagree Marshal, I listen to serious music with the RB-1090 and it's a great amp for that. Believe me, it reveals. I don't listen to any heavy metal music, a couple reviews even said the RB-1090 came very close to the Levinson 336 and a couple of others that are many more times it's cost. Just because it's Rotel doesn't mean that it's a cheap chinese amp. Many quality products now come out of china from many companies now-a-days. Made in China no longer means what it once did, as Made in Japan did in the 1950's & 1960's.

Soild rig Kevin. :T To bad you don't listen to metal.I bet that rig would kick mighty hard with some AC/DC pumping out. :-y

[Dmantis]

I have read all your coments and have a few more of my own.

Cables do make a difference in how a system performs. the key here is balance. Using the correct cables for the given systems needs. Power cords , speaker wires , interconnects and even power conditioners and outlets all make up for a complete system.

Just like a preamp and power amp working to gether to achive a certain level of sonic purity. Matching a set of speakers here make a huge difference.

Cables don't make HUGE difference but detail and dyamics do change. If you really care about how your system sounds , it's always good to at least try these products and hear for yourself.

Before I got into the whole power upgrades, I couldn't for the life of me see how any of it would help my sound or picture quality. After I added in a quality conditioner , I couldn't believe the difference it made to my picture and audio dynamics. I had cleaner sound with seems to be more power reserves in dynamic range. Then it's been a cool fun road afterwards buying outlets , running deadicted power to my system and upgrading powercords.

It's really up to you as the user if this road needs to be traveled. I choose to try and found alot of benefits.

Dan

[Stevebez]

My 2 cents worth on power cables...

Well you only have to look at your house's cabling and the internal cables in an amplifier to see that a 2 meter power cord lead is not going to change much. And if it does why ? This is physics guys not something alien.

Having said this it may depend on whether there is interference where the leads run, and therefore how well they are shielded. So a better shielded cable makes sense.

It also depends on the current drawn by the amplifier. It is clear that in the US where voltage is lower, current flow is much higher than in europe for the same power output. Fatter cables here to handle the higher current makes sense. Even so at 120 volts and lets say a wacko output of 1000w would only require less than 10 amps, not little, but easily handled by most cable of 2-3 mm. Higher current, techno guys remind me here please, but think electromagnetic radiation is more dependent on current not voltage ... so shielding is even more important I think.

The next thing are connectors Hasslegate plugs are fantastic, but bulky but its important where current flow is high, you definately dont want any dry connections.

In my view any further benefit to the sound other than what can be derived from the above is an illusion.

My personal view until I am shown/proven othewise.

Rgds Steve

[DrJRapp]

I do see one circumstance where a double shielded power cable may help...whith empasis on the MAY. If you are using a really excellent power conditioner and it is delivering truely clean power, then the cable from it to the component becomes the weak link in the power chain.

I still don't believe it is worth the cost.

[Dmantis]

I see alot of talking but how about demoing??

Isn't that what our hobby is about? Gotta at least give it a try then try to figure out why or why not.

I say go grab a few cords and try em out. Does Cat cables sell upgraded powercords???? This might be a place for starters.

Dan

[snakeoil smoker]

I honestly wonder if most people on here still have the fun and enthusiasm that had me loving the industry. Every tweak that had been preformed over the past years had evolved the very experience as how we reproduce our favorite musical journeys. Those very tweaks that pushed the envelope in how electronics guru's and manufactures build and progress the very equipment that we listen to our music on.
I understand some people just can't afford good cables, interconnects, and power a/c cords; I also understand that some people don't have the time to research and pilot the possibilities of what truly makes a great system, But I find it blind and naive to state that these technologies aren't valid, simply cause people don't find the importance in how the music is replicated, I do thing people that love music should find the time to unveil the truth, and bring the magic of the audio experience back into the think that matters most- and your right, That is the MUSIC, along with the corresponding technologies that produce it.
The music is always playing, but why aren't the masses listening?

[Dmantis]

snakeoil smoker,
great reply. I agree with what you wrote. I believe it's a personal journey to find "whats the right combo in ones system". Everything makes up "the system" including the room and the wires. Not just the electronics.

Dan

I love listening to music and this is the very reason I tinker with my system so much

[murrayb]

To answer the original question which started the discussion, I replaced the stock cord on my Rotel 1075 with a Shunyata Research Diamondback power cord. Same thing with my DVD player (Pioneer Elite DV47Ai). I thought it made a noticeable difference for the better.

[mikeyc]

If you use $1,000 power cord on some cheap Chinese receiver you will not hear any difference but if you use it on Krell, Levinson equipment then you will be astounded.

Marshal: I take offense to your comment, you did not need to include "Chinese" with cheap. There are cheap components made in the US, UK, Japan etc. Similarly, there is also some beautiful high end gear now being made in China, eg, Shanling. So to generalize that Chinese is synonomous with Cheap is unfair.

[voxy]

Marshal: I take offense to your comment, you did not need to include "Chinese" with cheap. There are cheap components made in the US, UK, Japan etc. Similarly, there is also some beautiful high end gear now being made in China, eg, Shanling. So to generalize that Chinese is synonomous with Cheap is unfair.

I recently auditioned Spark Audio CD17A and this is one hell of a Chinese Hi End CDP. Excellent soundstage, dynamics and detail. Highly recommended. It retail RMB 7200 which is a steal at this price for its performance. Hence not all Chinese made products are cheap but value for money.

Just for an update, I had recently change the stock power cords to diyed type. I used DHlab AC power plus cable with wattgates and marinco plugs. They cost only ~ $60 and it have improved the soundstage since the background is darker. At low vol, details which are not there before can be heard and I am happy with it.

[eelco74]

I only spend a 100 Euro´s on 2 meters of shielded Supra cable and some mtching plugs. I made them all the right length.

Sonically is is a bit better, probably because the cable is shielded. And the power cables now no longer are tangled up with video and audio cables.

And it was only a small investment. For the 2 meters of cable and some plugs, I only could have bought 1 factory made 1 meter cable.

[thyname]

What's wrong with listening to Heavy Metal guys!!! There is this opinion here that heavy metal fans are stupid people that care only for loud noise and no music. I can assure you that this genre delivers probly as much music and talent as any other genre. So please more respect for heavy metal musiciants and fans and let them enjoy their music in nice equipments, just like the rest of you.

[shadow 8]

I must eat a bit of crow here. ops: Tried a Shunyata Venom power cable this weekend with my RB 1070 and it made a significant improvement in sound quality. Less noise and less strident with the same CD. It will stay and I will get another for my DVD player to see what if anything it will do.

[rickc]

I just added some Transparent power cords to my system. I have the following equipment: Classe 5200, CDP300 and SSP600 and I could hear an improvement from day one primarlily with the bass response! Like other componets they actual take some time to break in. It was similar to the improvements that I heard at the dealer when they changed cables around on their demo system. Like all of you I was cautious, but it really did make a minor improvement in sound. I also have a Richard Gray line conditioner.

BTW

I have audioquest interconnects and speaker wires with my B & W 802D's

[Pookie007]

I am not sure how much improvement can be gained from power cords alone. Prior to really benefiting from cables, I know you would be better off by cleaning up the power available to the gear. Without doing this, you are just delivering dirty power better. Once you got the line conditioner in place (or use other methods to clean the power), I think you need to find a cord of enough quality to deliver this clean power to your gear without picking up any new noise. I don't own any Rotel gear, so I don't know the quality of their power cables. But I know if you keep everything else constant and shorten the run, you will reduce the noise on the line. I would be more attentive to finding a way to keep this cord as short as possible while still allowing necessary equipment movement for maintenance etc. I also am amazed to see when people take a long cable and twist it, wrap it, and tie it up to give a clean appearance. But since shortening a cable means replacement to most of us, it would be a good time to upgrade to an adequate level. The difficulty is finding the balance between where you receive benefits and when you are just throwing extra money with no performance gain.