What type of DAC does RCD-1072 have?

[audiofan]

I am ready to buy a CD player. There are so many players on the market these days. There are several in my list right now:

1. Rotel rcd-1072
2. Music Hall CD-25
3. Cambridge Audio 640C and 540C
4. Marantz CD-5400
5. Musical Fidelity A3.2

Option:
get Musiscal Fidelity X-10 V3 Tube Output Buffer and paired it with my dvd-2200. I think this one costs $400.


So, i'm looking for your opinion . What is your experience with these above players? My budget is around 400 -500 , but i am willing to stretch out a bit more if that cd player is really great.

Thank you very much for your help.

[lmib]

I'm not quite sure, but I think, that the 1072 uses Burr Browns 1732 DAC's.

[ironchef]

Yes, the 1072 has a BB PCM1732 converter, which supports 18-bit conversion (and 8X oversampling), and the pacific microsonics HDCD decoder. Many new players in this category have 24-bit DACs, but some more expensive and better sounding (like the Naim CD5i) players are still redbook. Hard to tell from the specs which is superior, still comes down to the listen

[audiofan]

Thanks all.
I will go to dealer to listen to rotel rcd-1072 as well as Music Hall, Arcam CD33.

One note: How can i tell which DAC version is better?

[ironchef]

That is a tough question. I purchased a 1072 about 2 months ago, after auditioning a Rega Planet, Roksan Kandy, Arcam cd73, and a few others. I went with the 1072 for a variety of subjective reasons, and that it looked so good with my RA 1062, I hoped the symmetry would extend into the sound quality as well. It has, and I'm very happy with it, although it does not do all things perfectly. Classical, jazz, and vocal music is about as sweet as it gets, but loud rock and roll, while still very nice, seems to lack something. Basically, it has clear, transparent presentation, and is dead quiet when it needs to be. The only other player I heard which could do everything I wanted was about twice the cost (the Naim 5i I mentioned). hth...

[will1066]

Are you Chen Kenichi? Chairman Kaga? I love your show!

[ironchef]

You should see what I can do with watermelon and goldfish!

[phillipk]

And... what kind of DAC is in the RSX1056?

Thanks.

[Mitchell]

Classical, jazz, and vocal music is about as sweet as it gets, but loud rock and roll, while still very nice, seems to lack something. Basically, it has clear, transparent presentation, and is dead quiet when it needs to be.

Iron Chef,
I have a 1072 also and have noticed the same thing and I could never put my finger on it.
My musical tastes are varied but the Rock and Roll I grew up on sometimes seems different. It actually sounds "more normal" through the tuner. I attributed it to the fact that many of the recordings were done "sloppily" back then with some rock stuff and I figured the 1072 was showing the imperfections in the original recording. I do believe that has something to do with it. But then again, Jazz recordings of the 50's such as Miles Daviis Kind of Blue sound terrific. Steely Dan Aja is superb! ...so I still cant figure out exactly what I am noticing about Rock Recordings on the 1072.

[gianni]

That is a tough question. I purchased a 1072 about 2 months ago, after auditioning a Rega Planet, Roksan Kandy, Arcam cd73, and a few others. I went with the 1072 for a variety of subjective reasons, and that it looked so good with my RA 1062, I hoped the symmetry would extend into the sound quality as well. It has, and I'm very happy with it, although it does not do all things perfectly. Classical, jazz, and vocal music is about as sweet as it gets, but loud rock and roll, while still very nice, seems to lack something. Basically, it has clear, transparent presentation, and is dead quiet when it needs to be. The only other player I heard which could do everything I wanted was about twice the cost (the Naim 5i I mentioned). hth...

Well, if I had to sacrifice something with the 1072, it would gladly be rock or pop. As much as I like it, from an audiophile standpoint it has much less to offer than other music. Most rock/pop recordings are barely worthy of high end systems. Many of the qualities we appreciate about a good jazz CD just are not there to be had on most rock recordings. Enjoy rock in your car or on the boombox and and let the 1072 do its thing with the music that was meant to be listened to on a good system.

[audiofan]

I call several dealers and theyall ask for ~700 which is the MSRP price! which is a reasonable price that we can get? if the price is firm, another brand is an option....

Anyway, i just want a dedicated CD that works with my denon 3805 and rotel 1080. I currently have denon dvd-2200. It sounds good if i tweak a little bit, but i think it's still lack of something....uhm...musical sound...

thanks.

[rhoffman000]

Do you guys know if the 1055 has the same DACs as the 1072? I'm going to go with a 5-disc changer and it seems like the Rotel might be the best option.

[shep]

If you go to the Rotel website, it lists the same DACs for both units:

http://www.rotel.com/products/cd-players.htm

However, I have heard on more than one website that the 1072 overall is the better machine by at least a small margin. Worth an A-B comparison before you buy if the trade-off is convenience for a possibly noticeable difference in the sound. Let your ears decide.

I am leaning toward the 1072 (haven't heard the 1055 yet) as a dedicated CD player, but still working on the WAF.

Good luck on your decision

[rhoffman000]

Thanks for the response. I noticed on the website that the DACs do appear to be the same, but the 1055 has worse stats (frequency range only to 18 versus 20 for the 1072, and THD of .008 versus .004 for the 1072). I guess the question is if any of that is actually audible. If the DACs were truely the same, I wouldn't expect those difference.

Now I'm trying to figure out if I should buy the 1055, or a used Sony 555es changer. I don't need the SACD capabilities, and I guess I could live without HDCD, although it would be nice to have.

Thanks

[Mitchell]

I decided against a changer as I heard they were more problematic as a class over the long run. I figures that I would either add an additional cheap mass produced changer CD for parties or background music or get an Ipod and use that instead of a changer. The 1072 is supposed to be, and is in my opinion for great sounding, serious listening.
Also do some research on reviews on the 1072 and I think you will find (as I did) that the overall consensus is that you have to spend several times more to get any improvement over the 1072. I believe this forum offer some links to Rotel reviews at the top of the thread list. As I agreed with Iron Chef about the sound of Rock music on the 1072 above, I regret having posted that as I actually made a point of going back to some of those recordings the other day (after posting) and listening and I realize that it is the source recordings that are lousy. Early Stones, Zeppelin and other rock often sound "thin" but later recordings by the same bands sound great.
Hope this is helpful.

[voxy]

Just to share...

I think the problem with the Rotel sound could be improved significantly with the OPamp modifications.

This was taken out in my local forum:

Tested on rotel RCD-1072 ..... with Adcom 750 in active mode, rotel power amp and SF Grand Piano in dedicated room, with my host, the moronic ..... seliger "aiya i shd have bought this earlier"

SOurce: AD8066 from Octave Electronics with BGates ...

if you are still using the stock OPA2277 .... you will ask a dog to kick you between the legs after you listen to this simple mod. Yo can ask me or seliger to help in this area too ... we gladly obliged

highs more extended .... mid-bass more powerful ... everything is cleaner ... the timing changed ... which is strange ... for the better though ... most music heard felt like listening for teh 1st time. Resolution improved a few notch, not 1, not 2 ... a few ... I mean it!!! the OPA2277 sux.

I admit, i used OPA627 on my Azur 620C .... it beats the crap out of the stock rotel 1072 .... but this rotel 1072 with AD8066 rulezzz my CDP .... I hate seliger for letting me checking it out "

Conclusion at this point of time
BUY BUY BUY ...... especially if not not using a full range spker that extend down to < true 40Hz.

I forgot to mention that there is almost no glare with this AD8066 with BG Ni-Q ... sounds really really expensive. ANd the highs are way way extended than the OPA627 and the sucky OPA2277."

So basically if you are tired of your stock 1072 or 1070, change the OPA2277 to AD8066 together with some audiophile capacitors. I own a 1070 and will be going down this modification road.... cost <$80.

[ironchef]

I posted some time back that I was not fully convinced about the 1072's abilities when it came to harder edged music. It came down to a 'tightness' I felt with the upper mid and high frequencies.
I just changed the interconnect cable a couple of days ago, and it seems like someone picked the heavy bowling ball up from on top of the upper frequencies, and let the 1072 breathe. I believed that I had 'good' cables, as my dealer had recommended them (and charged about $80 - not radio shack), but I suspected that I should be hearing a freer and fuller sound.
I feel like I have a new cd player, the one that I thought I was getting when I brought my shiny new rotel unit home. I can't find any weaknesses in the sound I'm hearing - rich full bass, clear and airy highs.
If you are unsatisfied with the sound from your 1072, trying alternate cables can make a *serious* difference.

[shep]

bought my 1072, worried about the interconnects

Ironchef, your last comment has me thinking. I will be hooking up my newly purchased 1072 in a couple days (arriving early in the week), and will match it with the RC-1070 (also new) and the RB-1070, driving a pair of B&W 804N. My interconnects are also store bought (Monster 850), and I worry I may run into the same problem you did. I'm planning to go with Cat Cables... after I have a chance to audition the 1072 on my existing equipment. Tell me, what interconnects did you start with and what are you using now? Given the price you referenced, it sounds like the same range. Also, did you go from copper to silver?

[Spearmint]

I have had my RCD-1072 for about a week now. My dealer told me not to be too critical for at least 2~3 weeks of using as according to him they do settle down.

Anyway I have it connected to 2x systems simultaneously:

1: Via analogue to Rotel RTC-940AX then to Crown K1
2: Via coax digital to Denon 3805 then to Rotel 1080

Both configurations sound much better than the Yamaha CD player it is replacing, and have to admit digital to the Denon is not much different than option 1. BTW I am using the same speakers with both setups i.e. I connect the speakers to the appropriate amp, will also try the Rotel 1080 with the RTC-940AX at some stage soon before I decide if to change my Denon over to something like the Rotel RSP-1068. At this stage I am more than happy with the RCD-1072/Denon combination.

[ironchef]

The moderator has suggested that we do not reference other cable vendors, so I can't make a direct reference here, but what I can do is tell you about the cables themselves.
My original cable was 30-stranded OFHC copper with polyethylene insulator, and braided copper shielding, all encased in PVC jacket. Gold plated brass connector. According to the vendor's website, they are about middle of the pack wrt the rest of the product range.
New cables are made from "cryo treated LC-OFC (Linear Crystal Oxygen Free Copper) Wire
composed of 3 conductors, in a twisted triad geometry contained within a EMI/RFI supressing foil wrap with an additional telescoping ground connector. This cable is terminated with gold-plated, copper alloy RCA plugs"

I have no idea whether the linear crystal copper, or the cryo treating make any difference to the audio signal, but I think the net AWG of the cable, and type of shielding does. There is extensive writing on the net pertaining to this (and cable discussions are notorious for being highly subjective and pointless), so no need to delve too deeply into it here. My advice would be to go for the higher end of a cable producer's product range, as I beleive that they attempt to make the differences between their products audible, with the flagship cable being the best they can produce. I would find a vendor that had an affordable higher end cable.
For reference, my final cable cost approximately $80US, I do not think it's necessary to spend hundreds to find excellent performance.

[shep]

In response to Ironchef and spearmint

Thanks Ironchef. I recognize the quoted description from the website of an online brand. Will review my options further. Spearmint, I have also heard to give it time to break-in. I currently use a Denon AVR-3801 as my pre and a Rotel RB-1070 as the amp for my stereo setup. Debated continuing to run everything through the Denon, but am going to audition the RC-1070 to see if that makes any difference. The main benefit will be that I can put the whole Rotel system in the same room as the speakers (currently 50 feet of 12 gauge copper between my speakers and amp - - not ideal), and run it independently from the Denon setup. Will report what I find in a few days, once I get it set up and broken in.

Cheers

[Spearmint]

Thanks Ironchef. I recognize the quoted description from the website of an online brand. Will review my options further. Spearmint, I have also heard to give it time to break-in. I currently use a Denon AVR-3801 as my pre and a Rotel RB-1070 as the amp for my stereo setup. Debated continuing to run everything through the Denon, but am going to audition the RC-1070 to see if that makes any difference. The main benefit will be that I can put the whole Rotel system in the same room as the speakers (currently 50 feet of 12 gauge copper between my speakers and amp - - not ideal), and run it independently from the Denon setup. Will report what I find in a few days, once I get it set up and broken in.

Cheers

Shep,

Look forward to reading your impressions...

[shep]

Set everything up this evening - - although the Rotel gear is still co-located with the Denon gear, about 50 feet of copper from my B&W N804 speakers. My toddler son was asleep, so could only use low volume or headphones. The 1072, by itself, sounded miles ahead of my Sony DVD changer (was there ever any doubt this was not a fair fight?) Did an A+B comparison of my Sony changer, through my Denon AVR-3801, and the 1072, through the Rotel RC-1070. Listening through my AKG headphones, I immediately noticed better separation, wind instruments seemed to come alive, and the decay on piano seemed to last just a little longer (or be more noticable). Very happy. Will report back once everything is broken in and I can move the Rotel gear closer to the speakers. Will have to wait until the weekend to fire up the B&Ws.

[EAmin]

Just to share...

I think the problem with the Rotel sound could be improved significantly with the OPamp modifications.

This was taken out in my local forum:

Tested on rotel RCD-1072 ..... with Adcom 750 in active mode, rotel power amp and SF Grand Piano in dedicated room, with my host, the moronic ..... seliger "aiya i shd have bought this earlier"

SOurce: AD8066 from Octave Electronics with BGates ...

if you are still using the stock OPA2277 .... you will ask a dog to kick you between the legs after you listen to this simple mod. Yo can ask me or seliger to help in this area too ... we gladly obliged

highs more extended .... mid-bass more powerful ... everything is cleaner ... the timing changed ... which is strange ... for the better though ... most music heard felt like listening for teh 1st time. Resolution improved a few notch, not 1, not 2 ... a few ... I mean it!!! the OPA2277 sux.

I admit, i used OPA627 on my Azur 620C .... it beats the crap out of the stock rotel 1072 .... but this rotel 1072 with AD8066 rulezzz my CDP .... I hate seliger for letting me checking it out "

Conclusion at this point of time
BUY BUY BUY ...... especially if not not using a full range spker that extend down to < true 40Hz.

I forgot to mention that there is almost no glare with this AD8066 with BG Ni-Q ... sounds really really expensive. ANd the highs are way way extended than the OPA627 and the sucky OPA2277."

So basically if you are tired of your stock 1072 or 1070, change the OPA2277 to AD8066 together with some audiophile capacitors. I own a 1070 and will be going down this modification road.... cost <$80.

I recently had some mods done to my 1072 --- I went a little further then this guy by adding/changing the following:

- replaced the clock w/ an LC Audio clock
- replaced the capacitors w/ Black Gates
- replaced Op-amps w/ Burr-Brown 627s
- added a pair of Bybee Slipstream Purifiers
- other stuff

I didn't replace the DAC as I was told I could not due to the way the components are installed. Plus, they said it's a good DAC. Not sure what others think on this one.

[voxy]

Wow.. that is pretty extensive. Pls post your comments here.

BTW, why not change the opamp with AD8066 since this is a proven mod. I will go this way with also some changes to the power supply and chassis grounding. :W

[EAmin]

BTW, why not change the opamp with AD8066 since this is a proven mod.

Hey Voxy. I actually didn't see this posting until after the fact.

I will post in separate thread --- I just wanted to chime in on your comments. But I will definitely provide feedback.