New Rotel Lover- Help

[MikeZ06]

Hi All,

I'm new here to the board and actually to the whole HT arena. I auditioned some Def Techs (2006s) and B&Ws. Very nice speakers.
I'm starting from scratch in a 16'X20' room.

I'm really considering getting the Rotel 1065. I've been asking around about all the other brands and everyone seems very happy with their Rotel and even the salemen say the Rotel line is the best...over Denon, Pioneer Elite, etc.

Remember, I'm new to HT in general. Would I really hear a difference between the Rotel 1065 vs. buying Rotel separates? 1066 + 1070 ( I think that's right.)

Any regrets or 'i wish this unit had this' comments?

Also, what is this Bass Management thing? Sounds scary- clipping a resistor that comes with the unit

And, how often do you have to upgrade the software? Does Rotel provide the upgrade for free?

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm open to really anything at the moment but strongly leaning toward Rotel for the receiver. I know it'll be hard but if I could get as unbiased an answer to my questions, I'd really appreciate it. I know I'm posting this in the Club Rotel forum but I know many of you can give unbiased info from reading your posts.

Mike

[simonb68]

Mike, welcome to the board, if you're considering Rotel then you've found a valuable resource for advice and help. I'm more of a loiterer normally but thought I'd offer my $0.02.

Starting from scratch with Rotel gear, nice! As to your main question, would you hear a difference between receiver and separates, possibly. There was quite big debate in an earlier thread about this subject, I can't seem to find it though. The main points I took from it were

1. Some can hear an improvement going upto separates
2. The separates give you more flexibility for future upgrades
3. Rack space and cost factor into the equation depending on personal circumstances - a clear example being the 1065 gets you a tuner.

I can only recommend that you listen to both, and for a good long time, to get familiar with the sound, but don't discount other makes/models, at a minimum listen to something else in the same bracket to confirm you're making the right choice. If you can't hear a difference between the 1065 and 1066/1075 then consider points 2 and 3. If you don't feel you're likely to upgrade for some while (years) then cost may become the deciding factor. However some argue that power amps can last for life, are unlikely to improve greatly in the forseeable future so get it now, which means you just need to upgrade the pre-pro in future.

As for bass-management, not something I have a problem with as I have no sub, but this was certainly a hot issue. AFAIK, the resistor snip along with config changes now means the whole BM issue can be corrected, but not sure. There are far better qualified people on this board to discuss this whole issue, but a number have successfully made the snip, some I think adding a switch to give full flexibility.

I have had my 1055 for about 8 months, there's been two upgrades in that time I think, certainly one. I get the impression they tend to come out once there's a critical mass of changes. You don't HAVE to upgrade, if it doesn't change anything that affects you then if it ain't broke....

The upgrades are free, one of our well respected Mods, Andrew Pratt, hosts most if not all firmware on his website, freely downloadable. The fix requires a serial cable and PC, quite easy to make if you're handy with that sort of thing, or you can buy one for $30 I think, or alternatively return the unit to your dealer or Rotel themselves. I think most can't bear to part with the unit for that long and do it themselves.

Also something to consider, but less of an issue now I think, is to make sure you get the 2nd series model, not something us Europeans need to worry about (no HDTV :x :cry: ) but you possibly need to, to get the necessary video bandwidth.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, hoped that helped some.

Simon

[MikeZ06]

Thanx Simon! Very helpful. You make alot of sense. For the time being, I think the all-in-one may suffice.

If you don't mind, why did you get the 1055 instead of the 1065?
75 X 5 plenty with Rotel (I was told it's a high amp unit) or $$$?

I'm starting with nothing and if I don't have to overkill any one part..that'd be great. I'm looking for clean sound..90% movies.

Having a Rotel instead of other brands...do you miss having any of the 'extra' features (bells & whistles?)

Thanks again!

Mike

[justaboutnow]

Hi Mike, I was in the same boat deciding between the 1055 and separates. I listen to 90% music, and for me separates were the way to go. I so wanted to save the extra cash and go with the 1055 with a 1070 amp for the mains, but for me the difference was significant enough to warrant the separates. But again I am most interested in the music. If I listened to 90% movies I might have gone the other way. I didn't hear as much diffference going from the 1055 to the 1065 as I did going from the 1065 to the 1066/1075. As you have read on the forum there are alot of different opinions about this and you really need to listen to both side by side to make your decision. Good luck

[leeda2]

i posted a similar question about a month ago on this forum. there were a lot of great posts. take a look...

http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/index.cfm?fuseaction=Threads.viewthread&Tid=72402&Forum=25&StartRow=1&CFB=1

[simonb68]

Mike, glad it made some sense

Why did I pick the 1055? Primarily down to dealer advice, an audition, it's looks, and the fact that I was quite keen to reduce the separates count. I probably committed what some would consider a cardinal sin, and didn't audition much else, hence my advice to you. This was new territory to me, I had an old Yamaha Dolby PL processor, I had some money and wanted to upgrade my system to get better sound and the newer surround formats, my current system at the time cost the same as the 1055 itself. The sound quality improvement was huge, which is what I was after, but could I have done better for the money, possibly. Much better, probably not. I actually considerably overstepped my budget, getting a new dvd\cd player as well, lol, so the 1065 would have been too much. To be honest I was a bit impulsive which I tend to be when there's something I want alot.

I asked the dealer about competing products, and he reckoned in that price bracket there was little to touch it. As you point out it is a well powered amp, as many in depth reviews point out, few better it I think at this price, the Pioneer might. To give you an idea though, I demo'ed it with Dynaudio all round (all 4ohm speakers), and a reasonable sub, the demo room shook, effects whizzed round the room. I can't really comment on actual quality though as I was inexperienced in this area, but it sounded pretty damn good to me.

So I would think that you would enjoy one of the Rotel selections, which one would you be happiest with though (if any)? It depends from what perspective(s) you are looking at your choice from. Pure sound quality - probably separates, compromise between quality and space - 1065, the 'budget' option - 1055.

Having got the 1055, dvd/cd player and new speakers I have rediscovered stereo and any future upgrade path will focus on that. I'm not a movie audiophile that some are, I am very happy (at the moment) with the quality of movie sound. With hindsight I may well have considered separates, for better stereo. However getting either 1055/1065 doesnt really hinder a separates upgrade path, and given that you're new to HT and possibly don't yet know how far you wish to take it, this may be the sensible choice, ie minimise cost. Do you currently have a stereo system, will the HT have to integrate into that? If not will this act as your hi-fi system, what will be the 2CH/HT ratio, as justaboutnow points out this influences many in their decisions.

There are practical matters to consider though, such as room size and speaker selection, more power may be necessary depending upon your layout and listening position. Questions that dealers and others on this board can answer.

If I might make a suggestion, based on what someone on this board described I think, start demo'ing high and work your way down, when you aren't sufficiently happy with the sound\cost performance, buy the previous one. So perhaps get an understanding dealer to let you listen to something well outside your price range to see what can be achieved and whether that's something you would aspire to, or whether it really is overkill. Then listen to all the possible Rotel selections discussed (including maybe the 1066/1095, or 1098 if its available). The danger of this of course is that you find yourself becoming more and more willing to stretch that sensibly calculated budget

Do I regret the purchase, no, do I miss the bells and whistles, I would say no. As I said, my movie needs are pretty much satisfied, so issues such as bass management, crossover selections and speaker distance settings etc aren't that important to me, but things you should at least consider. The only thing I thought I would miss is a headphone socket (lacking from 1055 and dvd player) but really don't.

Sorry, another ramble.
Simon

[Wilfred]

Hi MikeZ06, great to know another Houstonian joined the club!

Be sure to read leeda2 thread, that pretty much covers all the possibilities.

[Dr C]

Hi Mike - from experience (at least mine) you should go for whichever option satisfies you ... not just now but for the foreseeable future.

[Dr C]

Continued from last post ... sorry - clicked too fast b4 I had finished.

Reason being that sometimes a lot of stuff is psychological. Especially when the music/HT still sounds like it could benefit from better equipment. At this point you will be agonising about "why I didn't buy the more expensive piece once and for all". So ... buy the best you can afford (separates ?) and future-proof yourself for the next few years at least.

For a very apt description of the process, see Rock Dog's post on "Why do I get soooo nervous when trying to pull the trigger on a new piece of gear???" in the A/V chalet section.

At the very least you didn't go wrong by buying Rotel

[leeda2]

Mike, glad it made some sense

If I might make a suggestion, based on what someone on this board described I think, start demo'ing high and work your way down, when you aren't sufficiently happy with the sound\\cost performance, buy the previous one. So perhaps get an understanding dealer to let you listen to something well outside your price range to see what can be achieved and whether that's something you would aspire to, or whether it really is overkill. Then listen to all the possible Rotel selections discussed (including maybe the 1066/1095, or 1098 if its available). The danger of this of course is that you find yourself becoming more and more willing to stretch that sensibly calculated budget

Simon made some great points! I'd like to offer up another method that seemed to work for me. I tend to think that it's best to start "low" and move upward. Why? For me, it's much more difficult to guess where an appropriate ceiling would be (considering cost vs. performance) due to the complexity and variety of combinations as you move up. For Rotel, the "bottom" is pretty clear. "Moving up" can be accomplished in a number of different ways (i.e. 1055, 1065, 1055 + amp, 1065 + amp, 1066 + amp, etc..) and for this reason I feel it is easier to branch up rather than down.

It's funny that this was brought up because on my previous post, I was set on the 1065. However, I'm revisiting this because I'm not sure that I can justify the additional cost for the perceived improvement in sound. I'm fairly new to the HT arena so I'm very worried about "buyer's remorse".

Anyhow, hope this helps provide an alternate perspective.

[MikeZ06]

Me too leeda2! I was thinking of a 1065...but...after talking to more people and getting more input..i'm thinking to start with a 1055 with possible upgrades...add-ons.

As far speakers,...still need to audition...

Mike

[leeda2]

Yes! I really liked the sound of the 1065... definitely a more defined bottom end and more "open" upper end. No question that the 1065 has superior sound. However, I'm looking at the B&W 601s all around for my HT setup and the 1055 seems to have more than enough sound for me. Also, I don't currently have an existing HT system so anything would be an improvement.

Anyhow, my point is that ultimately, there were more upgrade paths (in my opinion) with the 1055. Someone else on the board may have to confirm this, but I was told that the 1065's amp channels cannot be reassigned while the 1055's can be diverted to power a second zone or the additional channels for a 7.1 setup (if an outboard 5-ch amp is used).

Mike, let me know if you find any interesting speakers to be paired with the 1055/1065. I'm afraid I haven't spent too much time auditioning speakers.

[MikeZ06]

Lots of great info from everyone!

Decisions... decisions.

Pricewise...i guess the sensible thing would be either 1055 or 1065. Less components, less cables. ( I know that separates would be the ultimate)

On the issue of assignability, I have the Rotel product catalog 2002.

Page 16.- RSX-1065 "In addition, digital inputs are assignable so that even an unusual roster of source components can be easily accommodated."

Page 18.- RSX-1055 "Other features add convenience such as component video switching, an independent Zone 2 output, five assignable digital inputs, discrete on/off codes, rear IR ports,...."

Now, remember I'm a newbie at this...but don't both have the same feature? assignable inputs? or am I reading this wrong?

I'm not trying to challenge anyone but I don't have any Rotel products....yet. (soon) Can someone clarify this?

If the 1065 does have the assignable inputs as stated in the catalog...kinda of a no brainer for my present situation.

Leeda2, I've been auditioning Def Techs (2006s & 2004s), Mirage OM series, and B&Ws..I think the models were the CDMs...saleman was raving about the solid wood construction. Seems like the majority of folks go for the 600 series.

Aren't the 601 and 602 speakers you are talking about bookself speakers?
I was under the impression that floorstanders would provide better sound.

I'm still way open on the speaker dilemma...In houston, I've only found Home Theater Store and Tweeter to audition speakers.

On another note..the 1055+amp or 1066+amp. If you have say the 1055/1075...you could run a HT 5.1 - 7.1 setup or a 5.1 with 5 extra channels for stereo....right? I've never had any of these configs before...just wanna make sure.

If I get a 1055/1075...I can have my 5.1 HT setup for movies( since the speakers will be powered by the 1075)...then the 1055 wouldn't be used at all to power the speakers...right? Could I set up the 1055 in 2 channel mode? what's the 2 channel wattage?

The 1065's 2 channel wattage is 120 watts each.

Sorry for rambling...trying to learn at a geometric rate...I wanna get this new HT system soon!

Mike

[leeda2]

Lots of great info from everyone!

On the issue of assignability, I have the Rotel product catalog 2002.

Page 16.- RSX-1065 "In addition, digital inputs are assignable so that even an unusual roster of source components can be easily accommodated."

Page 18.- RSX-1055 "Other features add convenience such as component video switching, an independent Zone 2 output, five assignable digital inputs, discrete on/off codes, rear IR ports,...."

Now, remember I'm a newbie at this...but don't both have the same feature? assignable inputs? or am I reading this wrong?

The inputs that are referred to in the manual have to do with the source inputs. What I wanted to point out (pardon my vague reply before) was the the amplification channels in the 1055 are assignable whereas the 1065 are not. In the 1065, the 5 channels included need to be used to drive the 5 main (l/c/r/lr/rr) ht channels. An external 2ch amp is needed to go to a 7.1 setup, but this can only be used to power the surrounds in the case of the 1065. You could go with a 2ch amp + 1055 and use the 2 ch to power the mains or the surrounds. This is what all the salespeople have been telling me.

Aren't the 601 and 602 speakers you are talking about bookself speakers?
I was under the impression that floorstanders would provide better sound.

Absolutely correct. I've been toying around with the decision between floorstanders or bookshelf models. For my space (I live in a small loft) floorstanders would just dominate too much. Also, I do not listen to 2-ch music much so I'm leaning towards going with the bookshelf speakers. I plan on adding an SVS sub to this mix which should help round out the full range of sound.

If you search more carefully, you should be able to find some great shops in the Houston area. There are quite a few posts on the audio boards from people in Houston who seem to be dealing with high-end audio.

Lastly, don't get in too much of a hurry to pull the trigger. Make sure you've had a chance to audition as much as possible. Also, a lot of dealers will have "trade-up" policies. A local dealer for me has a speaker exchange program that allows me to return my speakers within a year of purchase. I can get the full value back from my original purchase and apply that towards an upgrade. Something to consider if you're anxious to purchase.

From my experience (I'm still auditioning and will probably do so for another month or two) part of the fun is in working through all the options. Delayed gratification will make the final purchase that much more enjoyable.

[simonb68]

Mike

Just to expand a little on leeda2's explanation of assignable amps, the 1055 allows you to redirect the internal amps that drive the front L & R to the centre back speakers, then, as leeda2 decribes, use a better quality/higher power amp for the mains. You can use as many or as few of the internal amps on the 1055 as you like, all channels have preouts. For example, use a 1075 to drive the front 3 speakers, possibly bi-amping the centre, then use the 1055 for the rears, or use a 1095 for the main 5, and the 1055 for the centre backs etc. There are a number of options. The argument against a 1055 and then amp upgrades is the waste of money on the internal amps. Hence a lot of advice to go for the best now (ie separates), but I appreciate the position you're in, be conservative and upgrade later, or jump right in there. I think auditioning is the only answer, see how far you think you might take it, and purchase accordingly.

As for speakers, I would argue strongly against the statement that floorstanders give a better sound, a different sound perhaps, but there are standmount speakers that outperform floorstanders (and vice versa of course), just a question of cost. I've read a bit on this topic, mostly on UK boards, and in the opinion of most posters I respect for HT - small speakers all round and a sub. This doesn't apply necessarily to 2CH. It depends whether you like using a sub for 2CH, also there needs to be very good integration between sub and mains so you don't 'lose' any frequencies, or double up.

B&W are certainly renowned for matching Rotel well, but I would heed leeda2's advice, don't jump the gun, listen, listen, listen. There was a thread in here about what speakers people used with their Rotel kit, might be worth hunting down. I have Dynaudio Contour 1.1 speakers, mini-monitors almost, and I love the sound of them, deceptively big sound, and nice bass, though nothing like ideal for a big cinema sound in a dedicated HT room (but there again that's what the sub's for partly). I have to say though, and no disrespect to anybody, but I would look higher than say B&W 601, the 1055 is very capable. I replaced B&W 602 (S1s admittedly) with my current speakers since there was a significant step up in detail and soundstaging, mainly in 2CH but also HT. Having said I haven't heard the B&W 600 S3 range, so perhaps I should just keep quiet

Good luck
Simon

[Aeromos]

Hey Mike,

If you can continue and live with delayed gratification, I would wait to go with separates. According to some of the posts I've received, it just gives you more flexibility. Also depends I guess if your dealer will give you full value for the 1055 or 1065 when and if you trade up to the 1066. I'm under the same decision making. I've heard from most members here that 2 channel listening (music) is better with separates. My listening is normally 80-20, maybe even 90-10 HT/music. Although with great sound I can see myself listening to more music than I normally do now. With the speakers I've recently auditioned, I can tell I will truly enjoy having the music playing as the sound is so enveloping. Hence I will probably go the separates route right away myself (if everything goes well).




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[MikeZ06]

Thanks everyone...it is a hard decision....but fun to go through.

Leeda2, did you every decide on your A/V? Receiver or separates?

So hard...even when I'm thinking about that 1066...Rotel has to come out with that 1098....my eyes are constantly looking to see what's new right around the corner... and I don't even have the first component yet.

Separates are still a possibility for me...but it would be nice to keep the cost down...gotta get speakers (5.1) and ...um....a plasma..

Thanx again to all of you with your advise...I'm strongly taking each one to heart. Gotta go and audition more.

For those of you in the same purchase position as myself..please lemme know what you get...when you get them....later.

Mike

[leeda2]

simon, thanks for the clarification! and i forgot to "qualify" my comments about the speakers. i completely agree with simon's thoughts on floor standers vs bookshelf units. i was referring to the 600 series floorstanders. outside of the 602.5, all the floor standers (in my opinion) improve upon the overall sound of the bookshelf versions.

mike, i have decided to go with the 1055. bottom line was price vs personally perceived performance. while i agree wholeheartedly that the 1066 + amp combo sounds better than the 1055 or 1065, i did not feel the cost was worth the improvement in sound.

i actually enjoy listening to the radio on occasion and i did not like the fact that i would have to purchase an external tuner just to listen to the radio. on top of that, there are additional interconnects that are needed for separates. this opens up another huge decision tree which i am not ready for.

i was not concerned with the thought of "wasting" the internal channels. with the 1055, you can always reuse them, and that was enough for me.

again, it's all about personal preference. definitely give strong consideration to advice from others, but in the end, it's your dollars and your system that you'll be "stuck" with (until you get the upgrade bug).

i say all this without having made my purchase yet, but this is the point that i'm at presently with my decisions. i've even thought about "dropping down" to the denon 3803 to save more money and move up to a better set of speakers. i'll let you know if i ever make my purchase... should only be another couple months before i'm in a situation to make my purchase. i gotta work on the fiance and get her full support :LOL:

[MikeZ06]

Leeda2,

What size is your HT room? Are you worried at all about having enough juice to power your speakers sufficiently?

I'm in a similar situation. My room is 16'X20"...a perfect rectangle ...and carpeted.

Mike

[leeda2]

i'm not worried about not having enough power. i'm confident that any of the setups i'm considering can sufficiently power any of the speakers that i have considered so far.

my current room is 15 x 30 with hardwood floors and 10 1/2 foot ceilings. i'm just concerned about buying "enough" for my next place. i live in a condo and i do not plan on staying in my present home for more than 5 years. i'm sure my equipment will outlast that so i'm trying to buy something that will work in my current space, but integrate very well into my next home. the problem is that i don't know what the next home will by.

why is this such a dilemma? my fiance insists that whatever i buy now, i keep until something breaks... which means i am discouraged from upgrading.

in the end, i'm sure i'll end of up with the 1055 with b&w 601s all around and lcr60 for the center. i'm eying an svs pc+ sub as well. this way, if i do not have enough power/punch for my new place, i can just get a stronger amp to power the speakers and use the internal amp channels to power a second zone. i'm really not interested in going to a 7.1 setup yet, but that's for another discussion thread.

[MikeZ06]

I hear ya Leeda2,

I'm gunna really listen hard to A/B the 1055 and 1066/1075. If I can't hear a difference, then I'm getting the 1055 for simplicity and $$$.

But if I do hear a difference, then ..well..separates it will be.

I too plan on keeping whatever I get for a while. I still have and use my old Dolby surround receiver..15+ years old!

The way I see it, no matter which way I go...I can upgrade later if I want.
or in your case...as your wife for a really, really, nice Xmas present in a few years.

Can't wait til the weekend to audition...chat wit you later.

Mike

[Andrew Pratt]

I'm gunna really listen hard to A/B the 1055 and 1066/1075. If I can't hear a difference, then I'm getting the 1055 for simplicity and $$$.

Might I also suggest demoing the 1055 and 1075 as wel...$200 cheaper then the 1066 and comes with a tuner too boot

That or wait a week and you'll see my 1055 in the for sale area :LOL:

[leeda2]

I'm gunna really listen hard to A/B the 1055 and 1066/1075. If I can't hear a difference, then I'm getting the 1055 for simplicity and $$$.

Might I also suggest demoing the 1055 and 1075 as wel...$200 cheaper then the 1066 and comes with a tuner too boot

That or wait a week and you'll see my 1055 in the for sale area :LOL:

this is the exact route i plan on taking, but i'll have to wait a few years to add the 1075. mike, i don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between a 1066/1075 combo versus the 1055/1075 combo. hope to hear what you decide soon!