1098 PL Music vs PLIIx

[Orange Peel]

I was just wondering if there is a difference between the two? I see the default for PLIIx, but when I select PL M on the remote it just says Pro Logix II music, are they the same thing??

I just don't want to lose out on a different option for listening, thanks for any help!

By the way, this processor is just plain awesome, I watched LOTR ROTK and I was blown away, just pure cinema and music bliss!

[DrJRapp]

Scott

PLIIx was added about a year ago to the 1098 with a software upgrade and I don't think the the OM on the 1098 has been ever upgraded to reflect how to use it....at least my manual hasn't, and I have a relatively new 1098.

If you have a 7.1 system then PLIIx music is different than PLII, and is a wonderful experience. It makes 2 channel recorded material such as CDs sound as good as almost any surround format, and gives me a huge sundstage. I'm not sure how to access PLIIx music from the remote since I use a different one and already have PLIIx music set up as my default mode for CD input in my 1098. Perhaps some other members have some insite into how to access with remote.

[Orange Peel]

Ok, so there is a difference then between the PL Music and PLIIx? I run 5.1 right now, and I select PL M on the remote for CD listening, I will try to setup a new input like CD and make it PLIIx as default and see how it sounds, seems to be the easiest way if you can't access it from the remote buttons.

Thanks Jerry!

[DrJRapp]

That should work, but don't expect hear many real differences till you get a couple of speakers in the back. I use the old RS3s from my prior 3 series setup very successfully. I know most would say to use an Rc or an RB, but neither of those are available in white, which is a prime consideration to me as the rears are in my kitchen (which is attached to the FR) and the WAF comes into play heavily. The kitchen is her domain, even though I do most of the cooking!

[Orange Peel]

Cool, I plan to add some more, just can't figure out where, my kitchen is right behind the main room as well. Got any pics of your setup so I can see what you did?

[DrJRapp]

Sure Scott, I'll take some and email them to you tonite. I've been working at home today rearrainging and cleaning out the room next to the family room that was supposed to have been MY study/library but became the room for the whole family to dump their junk in. I recently reclaimed my rights to this room after buying a pair of ChorusIIs and an Azure 2 channel amp and Azure CD player (awaiting Fedex as I type) for a 2 channel music only system.

[Azeke]

I was just wondering if there is a difference between the two? I see the default for PLIIx, but when I select PL M on the remote it just says Pro Logix II music, are they the same thing??

I just don't want to lose out on a different option for listening, thanks for any help!

By the way, this processor is just plain awesome, I watched LOTR ROTK and I was blown away, just pure cinema and music bliss!

Scott,

There are two ProIIx formats, one is for ProIIx Music mode, which has adjustments via the Input menu and options, which allow you to adjust the panaromic, front and center speakers.

The second format, ProIIx cinema, does not have the aformentioned adjustments.

I tend to use ProIIx Music for music and cinema (when Dolby Digital or DTS are not available), that's just my personal preference.

I run 7.1 channels and it is a beautiful thing, however I have not tried DoProIIx with 5.1. It probably does not matter in a 5.1 configuration, it would only benefit individuals with a 6.1 or 7.1 speaker configurations.

Check out this URL, it will provide further information:

Dolby Pro LogicII(x)

Hope this helps,

Azeke

[Orange Peel]

Jerry - I got your pics, looks good. My kitchen area isn't as far back as yours, so mine wouldn't be so hard to blend into the system. I will ponder that thought for a while

Azeke - Thanks dude, I went home at lunch and tried to look into the input menu, and it only gives me the option for PLII Music, not PLIIx Music, maybe they are the same thing, or the "x" is only for 6.1 & 7.1 Either way it sounds great, just wanted to see if there was a difference between the two on the 1098, seems I can't get the PLIIx to show.

[Azeke]

Scott,

Check your software version (hold the mute button for 5 secs.), even though you have only 5.1, you still in theory should have Dolby ProLogic IIx, if your software version is current.

Regards,

Azeke

[Orange Peel]

Azeke - I swear I have seen it show PLIIx before but I can't seem to select it anywhere. If I go to a unused input on the 1098, I belive it shows up, but on a programmed input it seems to not be selectable. I will check the software version anyways to be sure. Thanks!

[DrJRapp]

Scott,

PLII was designed to give more realism to 2 channel Pro-logic source material by reorganizing the "matrix" of the Pro-logic surround channels and separating out some of the bass to send to the lfe. For the most part it was sucessful but did not go far enough, so Dolby came up with PLIIx which was a re-write of PLII with better steering algorithims and more features. One of the features of PLIIx, (but by no means it's only feature) is to add matrixed rear channels to DD and DD EX encoded material for 7.1. It has been very effective in compensating for the fact that there is really very little program material out there for 7.1. Before PLIIx, Rotel had it's own scheme called Rotel XS that did something similar, but not as well. Actually, it wasn't Rotel's scheme but Cirrus Logic's scheme and appeared on many CL chip equipped machines.

[rick c]

I have a rotel rsx1056,is it fair to say that PLIIx is only available if you are set up for 7.1.?

[Kevin D]

Right, until you add 7.1, you shouldn't be able to use PLIIx for anything. Maybe like Orange Peel has found, it might still be defaulted on an unused input, but you shouldn't be able to select it. The best thing about PLIIx is the ability to apply it to DTS and DD tracks, to mix stereo center rears out of the regular rear channels..

Kevin D.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

A clarification. My understanding is that the ProLogic IIx algorithm is available and active on 5.1 systems when taking 2 channel sources and converting them to 5.1 (e.g IIx Music Mode). It's just that the difference to ProLogic II is not that obvious as adding extra channels.

Hence the IIx display being vaid even on a 5.1 system...

However for DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 IIx has nothing to do on a 5.1 speaker setup - you need a 6.1 or 7.1 set-up for it to kick in on a 5.1 source!

Regards

Geoff

[PewterTA]

Scott...

Here's how it works...

Dolby PLIIx ONLY kicks in if you have the Center Backs (both) turned on. Whether you have speakers or not, it doesn't matter. To test this, look at the input for CD (for example) and it will say Dolby PLII (Music), then go back to the speaker setting. Change the Center Backs to small1 or 2 (or large1 or 2) and then go back into the input and look at the CD setting, it should now read Dolby PLIIx (Music). I believe PLIIx is basically set for only using a 6.1 or 7.1 surround.

I think it is odd that it turns off the PLIIx when you use a 5.1 surround set up...My old Yamaha rx-v1400 used the PLIIx when in a 5.1 configuration....

The way I found this out is by playing Need For Speed Underground II on the PS2, in a 5.1 configuration when the cars come up from behind it would not seperate the Left and Right channel real well (Ie, I couldn't tell if the car was behind and to the left or right) and I could EASILY tell with my Yamaha. I turned on the 6.1 setting (as I don't have my two center back channels since I don't have the room for them), and it now works very very close to the yamaha with seperation...

So it is INDEED, not using PLIIx when you have a 5.1 configuration (from what I can tell). Maybe this is something Rotel can/should look into this and maybe do a firmware update, because I see no real reason that you can't use PLIIx in a 5.1 configuration, it should take those channels and mix them back into the two rears...

I've just left the 6.1 config even without the 6th speaker hooked up...

[Aussie Geoff]

Pewter,

I've just left the 6.1 config even without the 6th speaker hooked up...

Not a good idea. IIx on 6.1 or 7.1 removes the common sounds from the left and right rear speakers to redirect them to the centre rears. So if you haver a rolling ball (say) left to right from the rears, you will get a hole in the sound as it moves across left to right...

I believe that for 2 channel sources (stereo or Dolby encoded) you get the full Dolby IIx processing for 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 - its just that for 5.1 it's not much different thant Prologic II... I am not sure why the processor is displaying what it does...

If you have a 5.1 source (Dolby or DTS) and a 5.1 speaker set-up - there is nothing for IIx to do (- hence it not displaying IIx). As soon as you define a 6th or 7th speaker IIx can derive the extra channels and remove the sound it is deriving from the original left and right rears so as to not duplicate the sound (hence it displaying Dolby Digital +IIx C or IIx M)

Geoff

[Kevin D]

Scott...
I think it is odd that it turns off the PLIIx when you use a 5.1 surround set up...My old Yamaha rx-v1400 used the PLIIx when in a 5.1 configuration....

How confident are you? Yamaha is our main line besides Rotel and the x always goes away unless you have the 6th or 7th channel setup. Maybe your 1400 was an early model, when they had just added PLIIx, and it was a small display bug? (The first versions of the 1400 didn't even have it)..

Also, maybe you were using the GAME mode of PLII? Perhaps the game mode only displays PLII as PLIIx in the GAME mode. I know Rotel choose not to use the GAME mode of PLII.

Hmm..

Kevin D.

[PewterTA]

Aussie, I know this is not a good idea to do, but it's the only way I can get a decent surround seperation from the rear channels in PLIIx with my games. I don't know WHY that is when I play games with the 1098. Like when I play GTA: San Andreas, you can hear guys talking in the rear left and right with my Yamaha, but with the Rotel it's just in the rears, not really seperated (and more info comes from the main L/R). I think this is how it's pushing the sound to whatever side (instead of just primarily using the rears). But when I put it in a 6.1 or 7.1 configuration the sound goes to the rears much better. I still think it's partially the Game mode with PLIIx, that or the Yamaha did a better job with it... I don't know.

Kevin, I know I LOVED the Game mode of the PLIIx, that is a great feature. I did have the first model Yamaha to add the PLIIx to it...so it might be that it never turned off, but it did display PLIIx for me during Game, Movie, and Music modes...?! ...but there would be NO sound difference when I changed from 5.1 to 7.1 (minus the two channels as I never had the speakers hooked up), with the Rotel there is a sound change when it's switched on and off. There is not as good channel seperation (to me) when you have it in a 5.1 instead of 6.1 or 7.1 (without the extra two channel speakers of course, just selecting it on the 1098 ).

I wish Rotel would have added the PLIIx Game, it really does work well for games (go figure!) :lol:

[DrJRapp]

Perhaps they will in the future. Decisions on features were probably made nearly 2 years ago, and at that point very few people were using their high end HTs for gaming. Only a small portion of the public does now.

[PewterTA]

What's the point of having a high end theater if you can't play games, surf the net, and everything else that goes along with it besides watching movies?!

[Orange Peel]

Damn good replies guys! Thanks a million! I will wait to get a 7.1 setup going to take advantage of the PLIIx, for now things are still rocking away, this 1098 sure makes my life wonderful and my theater is REALLY shining!! Oh, and I run my X-box on my theater

[mitch57]

I guess I will put my 2 pennies in here too. I read on Dolby's site that the PLIIx doesn't even function unless you have 1 or 2 surround backs. I believe this is correct because my denon 3805 operates in the same manner. If you have no surround backs setup in your speaker setup menu PLIIx never shows up and can't be turned on. Only if you add at least one surround back speaker in your speaker setup menu will the option to use PLIIx show up.

If the surround backs are set to none in the speaker setup menu there is no PLIIx only PLII. I believe this is by design. Dolby intended the PLIIx soley for the impimentation of additional surround speakers other then the standard 5.1 system.

But I'm no expert! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fox]

A quick reaction.

- Dolby Pro-logic (DPL) extracts from 2 channels a Left (L), Center (C) and surround (S) channel with limited bandwidth.
DPL = 4.0

- Dolby Pro-logic II (DPLII) extracts from 2 channels a Left (L), Center (C) and 2 surround (Sl + Sr) channels with full bandwidth. It has also better channel separation and steering.
DPL II = 5.0

- Dolby Pro-logic IIx (DPLIIx) extracts from 2 channels a Left (L), Center (C) and 2 surround (Sl + Sr) channels an a center (Sc) surround channel.
DPL IIx = 6.0 * If you have a 7 channel set-up the Sc channel is duplicated any you have 2 mono center surround channels.

None of the DPL versions has a LFE .1 channel!!!
The only way to get LFE .1 information is by using bass management or the Rotel subwoofer setting MAX.

If you use DPLIIx with a 5.1 track, it creates like EX a center surround channel from the Sl+Sr channel, but because the steering also looks a the L+R channels (and extracts information) it prevents the rear channels (sound field) from collapsing to surround center channel by mono surround information.

Fox