DTC-9.8, THX Ultra2, 7.1-Channel 3-Zone Preamplifier/Processor

[mattburk]

check out the secrets review:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_4/integra-98-ssp-12-2007-part-1.html

He does not say much about two channel, but he loves the onkyo.

[Chris D]

Yeah, seems he likes it!

[Ovation]

I guess if I were building my system today, this would be on my short list (especially since I've been extremely pleased overall with my Integra DTR 6.4--lower on the "food chain" but still eminently satisfying at its price point when I bought it). As it is, though, I have no complaints with my current gear, so it would be hard to justify an upgrade to myself. Ah well, if some "rich uncle" leaves me a fortune, I won't need to justify it.

To those lucky enough to have one of these, enjoy.

[John Holmes]

The only chance I've had to listen to an Integra piece, was about 6-7 yrs ago. I don't recall the model but, it was a rcvr. It was at an audio store, setup with three B&W 800 series with the bubble tops (I don't know the actual model) across the front. And the bi or dipole B&W rears ( the one's with the tweeter on top). And a B&W sub. It was a 5.1 system.

I was and am to this day, still impressed by that demo! The clarity, dynamics and seamless pans were truly jaw dropping. The bass was very clean. With punch when called for, and depth with good decay.

From that day on, I've had high respect for the Interga line (B&W's too!). This review seems to point out to me, that this company is still hitting the mark, with quality performance. I could see the DTC-9.8 in my system.

Now, where it that rich uncle!

[gostan]

check out the secrets review:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_4/integra-98-ssp-12-2007-part-1.html

He does not say much about two channel, but he loves the onkyo.

Do not purchase the Integra 9.8 for two channel. Surround/MC via HDMI is what it is designed to do and does best.

[Hdale85]

I think he's referring to using it in a multi use system. Like me I have 1 system for music and HT. So 2 channel performance is important to us. But HT is also important.

[Ovation]

My DTR 6.4 is very capable in 2 channel mode, so I'd expect the DTC 9.8 to be at least (in a worst case scenario--and "worst" is relative) as good as my receiver and, far more likely, much better.

[mattburk]

I think he's referring to using it in a multi use system. Like me I have 1 system for music and HT. So 2 channel performance is important to us. But HT is also important.

yep, right on.

[Kal Rubinson]

Do not purchase the Integra 9.8 for two channel. Surround/MC via HDMI is what it is designed to do and does best.

It really depends more on the sources and less on the number of channels, imho.

[RebelMan]

It really depends more on the sources and less on the number of channels, imho.

This is true. But having said that I doubt you would make supplanting use of one ( DTC 9.8 ) for two channel sources. :W

[gostan]

It really depends more on the sources and less on the number of channels, imho.

But if I want to use the DACS in my CDP via 2 CH analog in to the Integra, don't the analog op amps in the Integra come into play. Several users over at AVS have reported issues with 2 CH PQ in such instances, likely due to issues with the analog stages of the 9.8. It may be that those users, like myself, have 2 channel preamps or some other better sounding solution for 2 CH than the 9.8. Integra purchasers should not expect 2 CH nirvana for their $1600 msrp purchase.

[DrJRapp]

Do not purchase the Integra 9.8 for two channel. Surround/MC via HDMI is what it is designed to do and does best.

While I agree with this statement, Stan, as it turns out the 9.8 is more than "adequite" as a two channel performer when combined in a theater application, although I would perhaps make a different choice if my utilization was "primarily" 2 channel. That having been said, when teamed with proper equipment,the 9.8s ultra low noise and extremely low distortion characteristics make it very suitable for combined two channel and multi-channel applications. Initially, the 9.8 seemed a bit "thin" by comparison to the Anthem D2, however, after a through run in, which took quite awhile, (about 75hs) it fleshed out very well.


While I wouldn't begin to compare the 2 channel sound of the Toshiba/ Integra/Klipsch in my dedicated theater with my Theta Digital/ Balanced Audio Technology/Martin Logan 2 channel only rig in my family room the 9.8 has occasionally been pressed into service in the theater to provide some 2 channel background music as I work on things in that room. I've found that with the Oppo 970 HDMI output, or better yet the Toshiba XA1 toslink outputting to the 9.8 (therefore using the 9.8s internal DACs) that 2 channel is musical, smooth and robust with much of the lush midrange that I experienced with the D2. Low end is prodigious and tight and the high end is just ever so slighly accentuated, while not being overly bright. This is a common tuning with SSPs and receivers that helps make surround steering seem crisper, causing; as a serendipitous benifit, female vocals to be it's forte. Last weekend I was listening to Sarah Brightman's Live From Las Vegas concert and was impressed with the overall presence and involvement. Now that the theater is complete, it's tied up most of the time playing movies, but perhaps soon I can get an opportunity to plug in the Shanling and sit down and do some critical listening to 2 channel.

[Kal Rubinson]

This is true. But having said that I doubt you would make supplanting use of one ( DTC 9.8 ) for two channel sources. :W

If the 2channel source is a decent quality CD transport, I would (and I do). Not for an analog source, even from that same CD.

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

But if I want to use the DACS in my CDP via 2 CH analog in to the Integra, don't the analog op amps in the Integra come into play.

Sure. That's why I specified source to distinguish between an analog source and a digital one. Using an analog source, one encumbers the analog input stage of the 9.8 and cannot avail one's self of the processing unless one also encumbers the additional burden of A/D. The number of channels is not relevant, imho, to this issue.

Kal

[RebelMan]

If the 2channel source is a decent quality CD transport, I would (and I do). Not for an analog source, even from that same CD.

So, given the same quality source player and media, you would rather engage the DTC for stereo instead of a dedicated pre-amplifier? Are you still using the BelCanto or something else in your comparison?

[Kal Rubinson]

So, given the same quality source player and media, you would rather engage the DTC for stereo instead of a dedicated pre-amplifier? Are you still using the BelCanto or something else in your comparison?

I didn't say that. The BC is still in use (it is multichannel) but in another system. The DTC is in a 'lesser' system and, in the context, it is more than adequate for all things digital.

Kal

[RebelMan]

Gotcha.

[mattburk]

Its pretty dead here. Any other updates/comparisions?

[mitch57]

I just got mine last week. I'm loving it so far. The surround steering is excellent. Much, much better then my Denon 3805. So far I am very impressed with this unit.

I will report again with more details once I've had some time to play with it and run it through the paces.

[mattburk]

sounds great, thanks

[Blindamood]

Just got my January issue of Stereophile yesterday, with a nice review of this processor by Kal. Be sure to check it out!

[Chris D]

Oh, yeah? Must go see...

[jayhawk75]

has anyone else given thought of going with onkyo pro pr-sc885p? apparentlly these are available and the cover over many of the front panel swiches is more pleasing to the eye. the only concern i have is the single sub output.

[RebelMan]

Just got my January issue of Stereophile yesterday, with a nice review of this processor by Kal. Be sure to check it out!

So did I and I thought it was interesting when I directed some cut to the chase questions on stereo performance specifically regarding the BelCanto Pre6 he skirted the issue here yet in the article he spelled it right out. Although, I got his implicit message before the article was published.

He still has yet to answer the question of wether he would prefer the DTC + digital source transport over an anolog pre-amplifier + digital source and DAC, in the same system, i.e., all else being equal. Although I doubt he has the guts to say it here. (I am taunting you again Kal! :twisted: )

[Kal Rubinson]

He still has yet to answer the question of wether he would prefer the DTC + digital source transport over an anolog pre-amplifier + digital source and DAC, in the same system, i.e., all else being equal. Although I doubt he has the guts to say it here. (I am taunting you again Kal! :twisted: )

In this system, yes. I have no analog sources in this system and, since I am all digital, I have not reason to use an analog preamp which would not permit all the essential (imho) DSP and Audyssey without additional A/D/A. Is the DTC better than the BC on analog? Nope but I ain't got any. OK?

Kal

[RebelMan]

OK?

Not quite. Clearly the DTC-9.8 excels in the digital domain. It is also understood that it's not quite an anolog power house. The question is, for those with mixed environments would they be better off in the digital domain with the DTC-9.8 for stereo playback or in the analog domain with say the Pre6, as in your case, given the same source?

Digital system ( DTC-9.8 ) vs analog system ( Pre6 ). Not talking about a hybrid system where the DTC-9.8 is used as both an analog and digital hub. I believe this topic is on the same lines that gostan was eluding to earlier.

[Kal Rubinson]

Cannot answer. If I had to have a "mixed environment" in that system, I would use an analog pre, like the BC, for analog sources and feed the output of the DTC into one of its MCH inputs. Or, if the analog sources are all stereo, use a pre with an HT bypass. However, I have no intention of doing so.

Some day, there will be an analogous prepro for the main system, too.

[RebelMan]

LOL, I anticipated that you would say you have no answer but your explainations of what you would do "if" is helpful nevertheless.

Refresh my memory. The B&W's are your main system and the Paradigms your "lesser" system, correct? What do you consider the top secret ( I have an idea they are from a familiar family ) third system then? Is it a multi-channel setup too? Which location, NYC or CT? My guess would be closer to the B&W's.

[RebelMan]

Some day, there will be an analogous prepro for the main system, too.

Hmm... perhaps the SSP-800?

[Kal Rubinson]

LOL, I anticipated that you would say you have no answer but your explainations of what you would do "if" is helpful nevertheless.

I am not trying to be evasive but I have not compared enough A/B to give an explicit answer.

Refresh my memory. The B&W's are your main system and the Paradigms your "lesser" system, correct? What do you consider the top secret ( I have an idea they are from a familiar family ) third system then? Is it a multi-channel setup too? Which location, NYC or CT? My guess would be closer to the B&W's.

Way off. It is a little system in my office. It consists of a Sharp all-in-one SDPX2 (AM/FM/CD/DVD/DVD-A/SACD, 5.1 prepro, 5channel amp), 5 miniature Celestions and a lash-up sub.

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

Hmm... perhaps the SSP-800?

Mebbe but I am hoping that Meridian can update my Ref 861 to handle HDMI and the new codecs.

Kal

[RebelMan]

Way off. It is a little system in my office. It consists of a Sharp all-in-one SDPX2 (AM/FM/CD/DVD/DVD-A/SACD, 5.1 prepro, 5channel amp), 5 miniature Celestions and a lash-up sub.

Definitely way off. I had the new Studio2's in mind. Sorry about that Kal.

[clewlor]

I have placed my order for the DTC-9.8 and should have it in a couple of weeks hopefully. I have a question as it relates to the 2-channel discussion earlier in this thread, as I don't fully understand the points being made.

As this is my sole system, would it make sense to employ a dedicated CD player and run analog out to the DTC? Would relying on the DACs in the CD player improve upon the 2-channel performance versus using the Integra's DACs? If the "issue" is that the DTC is okay for 2-channel performance, would having a really good source improve sound quality?

[Kal Rubinson]

The issue is not 2-channel vs. multichannel. It is analog source vs. digital source!

Kal

[clewlor]

I guess I was trying to figure something out. I have sold my Classe SSP-300 which I enjoyed from a 2-channel perspective using a Rotel DVD player with coax out to the processor. I sold it for a few different reasons - hdmi video/audio capabilities, financial, etc. Do you think I will lose a lot using the Integra for stereo playback of CDs? I would hate to find that I will notice a huge difference here.

[fibercut]

Just Picked Up my 9.8

Just picked up my 9.8 getting ready to hook up any tips from anyone? If anyone is interested my dealer in westwood,nj has 2 more in stock.

[Ron Reda]

I guess I was trying to figure something out. I have sold my Classe SSP-300 which I enjoyed from a 2-channel perspective using a Rotel DVD player with coax out to the processor. I sold it for a few different reasons - hdmi video/audio capabilities, financial, etc. Do you think I will lose a lot using the Integra for stereo playback of CDs? I would hate to find that I will notice a huge difference here.

clewlor,

I am in a similar boat...I've currently got a Musical Fidelity A3 CD player as a transport feeding a Musical Fidelity A324 DAC which runs analog L/R to my current Rotel RSP-1066. It sounds absolutely wonderful with a quality recording. At first, I was nervous about moving from the sound of the Rotel to the sound of the Integra considering the use of the analog connections but then figured the Rotel is merely passing the analog signal (those that own this piece can you post if this not the case?). I'm praying that the analog section of the Integra is at least on par (or better) than the Rotel. Plus, I also thought that some internal parts may have been improved in the 6 years that I've owned the Rotel.

So, to the owners of the 9.8, what would be my best option for 2 channel...run CD player digital > DAC > analog out from the DAC to the 9.8 or run digital from CD player > DAC > 9.8?

[Ovation]

I'm no expert, but would not running CD player > DAC > 9.8 in an all digital fashion make the DAC redundant? I would see your options as either CD>DAC>analogue to 9.8 or CD>9.8 in an all digital path. Just my 2 cents. I'm open to having someone more knowledgeable than me to explain why placing an extra DAC in an all digital path would be an option worth considering.

[Ron Reda]

I'm no expert, but would not running CD player > DAC > 9.8 in an all digital fashion make the DAC redundant? I would see your options as either CD>DAC>analogue to 9.8 or CD>9.8 in an all digital path. Just my 2 cents. I'm open to having someone more knowledgeable than me to explain why placing an extra DAC in an all digital path would be an option worth considering.

Ovation,

My bad...the reasoning is that the DAC takes the digital signal from the CD transport and upsamples it to 192kHz.

[Ovation]

Ah. In that case, my deciding factor would be whether I was planning to keep my sub in the 2 channel mix. As I have standmount speakers that benefit greatly from a sub, I would then opt for the digital path to keep the sub active. However, if that is not important, then I would do a comparison (as blind as I could make it with the help of a friend or two) and go with the one that sounds best to me.

I have an Integra receiver (a DTR 6.4--I'm not playing in the same league as those currently considering/owning a DTC 9.8, but the relative point I'm getting at still applies, I think) and a Cambridge Audio 540D DVD player (I have a lot of other stuff too, but they are the principle components for my 2 channel listening). I bought the 540D because it bested (to my ears) a head to head with the 540C and a NAD C541i for redbook playback. In essence, I liked its DAC best (unconventional, but there it is). A bonus for me is that I can configure the 540D in 2.1 mode in the player, so I can bypass the receiver's DACs (no slouch in their category, but not as pleasant to me as the CA 540D) AND keep my sub in play.

Your player will not let you do that (I don't think), nor will your outboard DAC. So if the sub is NOT a factor, I think you should let your ears decide. If the sub is a factor, then the all digital path is likely best.

[Ron Reda]

Ah. In that case, my deciding factor would be whether I was planning to keep my sub in the 2 channel mix. As I have standmount speakers that benefit greatly from a sub, I would then opt for the digital path to keep the sub active. However, if that is not important, then I would do a comparison (as blind as I could make it with the help of a friend or two) and go with the one that sounds best to me.

I have an Integra receiver (a DTR 6.4--I'm not playing in the same league as those currently considering/owning a DTC 9.8, but the relative point I'm getting at still applies, I think) and a Cambridge Audio 540D DVD player (I have a lot of other stuff too, but they are the principle components for my 2 channel listening). I bought the 540D because it bested (to my ears) a head to head with the 540C and a NAD C541i for redbook playback. In essence, I liked its DAC best (unconventional, but there it is). A bonus for me is that I can configure the 540D in 2.1 mode in the player, so I can bypass the receiver's DACs (no slouch in their category, but not as pleasant to me as the CA 540D) AND keep my sub in play.

Your player will not let you do that (I don't think), nor will your outboard DAC. So if the sub is NOT a factor, I think you should let your ears decide. If the sub is a factor, then the all digital path is likely best.

Good call, thanks! I definitely do not want the sub in the mix as I have floorstanding front speakers that can handle "normal" bass from CDs. I guess I'll try it out in analog.

Also, for 9.8 owners...is there a sound mode that completely bypasses all processing? On my Rotel, "stereo" can be configured to bypass the sub completely, so this mode has no processing applied to it at all. I think the Onkyo version has "pure audio" or something like that. Does "direct" accomplish the same thing on the 9.8?

[mitch57]

Good call, thanks! I definitely do not want the sub in the mix as I have floorstanding front speakers that can handle "normal" bass from CDs. I guess I'll try it out in analog.

Also, for 9.8 owners...is there a sound mode that completely bypasses all processing? On my Rotel, "stereo" can be configured to bypass the sub completely, so this mode has no processing applied to it at all. I think the Onkyo version has "pure audio" or something like that. Does "direct" accomplish the same thing on the 9.8?

Direct on the 9.8 bypasses all the procession done in the 9.8. My understanding is that the difference between "Pure Audio" and "Direct" is that "Pure Audio" (on the Onkyo Pro 885 which is pretty much identical to the 9.8 ) turns off the units front panel display. The front panel display on the Integra 9.8 can not be turned off. It can only be dimmed.

[cadman]

Integra dtc 9.8

any body connected this pre/amp with a pc in HDMI ? I tryed and not able to sink can anybody help? my PC works with HD-DVD in to projector 1080P

[B&W 700 Guy]

any body connected this pre/amp with a pc in HDMI ? I tryed and not able to sink can anybody help? my PC works with HD-DVD in to projector 1080P

The computer video card is it DVI or HDMI? If it is DVI, I don't think it will have HDCP. If it is HDMI coming out of the card, does it have a version? I use my s-video output on my video card and let Reon upconvert it to 1080I. It does a real good job!

[Hdale85]

Your wrong my card is DVI and it has HDCP and has no issues connecting to my TV and playing Blu-Ray and HD-DVD to it. I'm not sure about through the receiver though.

Edit: This doesn't mean that all DVI video cards are HDCP there are a lot that aren't.