C2 Audio dropouts

[emillika]

I have recently started having some audio dropouts on the C2 while watching dvd's. It happens during playback on my Denon 2900 and my LG 3510 so I suspect it is the pre/pro...

Anyone else run into this?

Thanks.

Elmer

[nicholtl]

Hmm, I can't say I have. Do you have another DVD player? If you do, or if you can borrow a friend's, maybe you could replay those same passages and see if the problem persists? That way you'll know for sure if it's the C2 or the 2900.

[cameronl]

my brand new C2 also seems to be experiencing audio dropouts - about twice a movie.

did you come up with any solutions?

this happens on my DV88+p. I'll try and investigate further to see if it's random and whether it happens through my HTPC.

thanks

CaM

[Kingdaddy]

Audio dropouts like you explain are almost always a problem of the source, followed by the cables and termination, the next to the last place to suspect is the preamp. Very unlikly to be the preamp, it would be 1 in 100 IMO.

[cameronl]

hm....

well, I could try reconecting my cables i guess - that would help for sure. It's not the source as it has always worked for the 2 amps before it. I'll investiage.

thanks for the tip.

CaM

Audio dropouts like you explain are almost always a problem of the source, followed by the cables and termination, the next to the last place to suspect is the preamp. Very unlikly to be the preamp, it would be 1 in 100 IMO.

[nicholtl]

Yeah but since your C2 is brand new, and your source components are weathered and older, something might have happened in the interim time.

[cameronl]

it's not likely that anything happened within the day though :-)

I've swapped my coxial cable so I'll know if that is the problem soon enough. I'll also watch a HTPC movie so i can try another source.

else it might be my 3rd C2 in a week!!!!

CaM

[cameronl]

i think it was my cable or connection to the cable because after i swapped it out for a spare coixal the audio drop outs disapeared.

CaM

[emillika]

I have a stupid question.... I have a Monster Cable (don't ask) M550i analog audio cable hooked up. Does this make a difference? My gut tells me it doesn't but I notice different cables for digital and analog audio interconnects.

Thanks.

Elmer

[bhuskins]

Hi Elmer,

You shouldn't need an Analog Audio cable hooked up from a DVD player to your C2 for typical use. If you're using a high-end universal player then it might make sense to have analog connections for 2 channel audio to utilize the player's internal DAC's and use a C2 bypassed input for pass through. Likely, six RCA’s (5.1) would be used on a universal player anyways because of the lack of a universal digital connection for multi-channel audio. But, you’re talking about typical movies. One Component video connection (or DVI) and one digital audio connection (Either Optical (Toslink) or Coaxial (Single RCA made for Digital)) is all you need.

Now, I don't think having the analog connection in addition to the digital would necessarily hurt anything. You would want to make sure the DVD input on your C2 is properly pointing to the DIGITAL input that the DVD player is plugged in to. If not, that could be your problem.

I still think you need to get your unit upgraded though. Your unit was received right around May of last year and the likelihood that it's a "pre-new capacitor" unit is high. Parasound is very quick on turning around units to replace the capacitors. They even ship it back to you the way that you ship it to them. Meaning if you FedEx it, they will do the same. That way you can typically only have it gone about 4 days.

Keep us posted.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design
(817)300-1223

[Aussie Geoff]

Elmer,

I have a Monster Cable (don't ask) M550i analogue audio cable hooked up. Does this make a difference? My gut tells me it doesn't but I notice different cables for digital and analogue audio interconnects

If you are saying that you are using a normal Monster 550i cable (which is Analogue RCA cable) for a your digital coax connection then yes it will very likely cause problems of signal drop-out (at worst) or harder sound due to jitter / reflections in the digital signal (at best).

The Digital Coax's need to be special 75 Ohm impedence cables - they look the same but have different high frequency electrical characteristics than an Analogue cable. Use of normal analogue RCA cables will degrade the Digital signal and may cause sufficient errors / signal reflections for loss of signal lock - which is what you are experiencing!

Some pre-processors / recievers are more tollerant of cable impedence missmatches than others - so you may well have "got away" with using the wrong cable on your previous system...

Geoff

[Peter Nielsen]

The Digital Coax's need to be special 75 Ohm cables

:yesnod: With emphasis on 75 Ohm. The cable itself does not have to be "special", but it must be the correct type (read: correct impedance). Impedance is a very imporant characteristic that needs to be respected in areas like this. Just think about cable/satellite TV and how important it is to get gear with the correct impedance in order to avoid shadows, reflections, and ghosts in the image. (As for analogue audio cables, there usually is no "standard" impedance AFAIK - Or to put it in other words: your analog cable probably isn't even close to 75 ohms).

Peter

[bhuskins]

You guys caught something that I didn't. I didn't consider an incorrect connection, just an unneeded connection.

Elmer,

If you have an analog cable hooked up to the coaxial digital output of the DVD and into one of the digital inputs of the C2, you're very lucky it has worked at all. You'll have better success using a typical cheap yellow rca (a video rca cable which is usually close to 75 ohms) from a red/white/yellow 3-way rca. Here's an example of what you need to correct the problem long-term if our assumptions are correct:

http://www.etherealhometheater.com/product.php?cat=2&main=5&id=442#

and not this:

http://www.etherealhometheater.com/product.php?cat=2&main=5&id=440

BTW - these Ethereal cables are excellent. Parasound actually uses their cables when they demo Halo gear. Ethereal was designed with Halo in mind and Halo was used in the initial cable testing. They are also a great value.

Let me know if you need more help.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[glgluxy]

Brent,

Where can you buy Ethereal cables? I looked a the web site, but didn't see a store or dealer locator.

Thanks,

[Kingdaddy]

There is no such thing as a 75 ohm RCA connector, the value for this is determined by the distance between the center conductor and the outer shield, even if you have 75 ohm cable once you put a RCA connector on it, it becomes a 50 Ohm termination. That’s why true professional video gear always uses BNC connectors (true 75 ohm terminations). However, no matter as I use all DIY RCA 50 ohm cables on digital connections and they work perfect, in fact the one time I tried an expensive "Digital" coax’s there was no difference in video quality, so I returned it. I use the provided BNC to RCA adapters that came with the Halo for the R,G,B in/out’s and have a perfect picture, these analog cables are also just as good for Digital Audio coax connections, no difference what so ever from what I can tell.

. This might be a problem in a professional setup with duplexers and junctions and amplifiers and such, but in a typical home theater setup you should experience no visible degradation in signal quality

[Peter Nielsen]

There is no such thing as a 75 ohm RCA connector, the value for this is determined by the distance between the center conductor and the outer shield, even if you have 75 ohm cable once you put a RCA connector on it, it becomes a 50 Ohm termination. That’s why true professional video gear always uses BNC connectors (true 75 ohm terminations).

A termination, or terminator, is, as the name implies, a closed loop at the end of a cable. The termination is usually inside the equipment. (A BNC terminator is usually a small "block" that you plug into the end of a cable if no equipment is connected).

The impedance that matters is in the cable. The longer the distance, the more important it is that the impedance is correct. Sure, the connector also has an impedance, but since the distance through the connector is very short, it does have less impact than if the cable impedance is wrong. Usually high quality connectors are designed to have the same impedance as the cable. Like you mention, BNC connectors is a perfect example. If you look in a parts catalog, you'll see find dozens of different 50 Ohm BNC and 75 Ohm BNC standard connectors. The same goes for the cable.

Is there a 75 Ohm RCA plug? A plain "no" is not the whole truth. Here's an interesting article if you want to read more about this topic: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/75ohmrca.htm

[bhuskins]

Brent,

Where can you buy Ethereal cables? I looked a the web site, but didn't see a store or dealer locator.

Thanks,

From an Ethereal dealer like me - :T

Feel free to PM me if you are interested.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[Chris D]

[QUOTE=Brent "the numero uno Halo dealero" Huskins]Your unit was received right around May of last year and the likelihood that it's a "pre-new capacitor" unit is high. Parasound is very quick on turning around units to replace the capacitors.

Uhhhh... "pre-new capacitor"?????????

[bhuskins]

Parasound's original C1 & C2 had certain capacitors in them that where found to act sporadic by IBM and others in other electrical equipment. This was something that may have only impacted a few actual users but Parasound sent out a recall memo anyway to all dealers that allowed anybody that wanted to send their units in to get the new capacitors put in at no charge. The units that were affected were units that dealers received before May 2003. After that all new units shipped out from Parasound with the new capacitors already installed.

For most, this was a non-issue anyway. But for those that had odd symptoms, like digital audio dropouts and mandatory rear unit rebooting to get the unit to work right every few days the upgrade was a must.

That's why I had suggested to Elmer to get the upgrade because he received his unit right around the cut-off. Now, if his problem is cable related then the upgrade wouldn't be necessary.

I hope that helps clarify. Me and Elmer had been talking offline so I took for granted that he knew what I was talking about.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[Chris D]

Cool, thanx, Brent. Good poop for everyone else, too.