Trouble with my Denon 2900

[Nick M]

Hmmmm.... :|

My 7mo old Denon 2900 has ben acting up every once in a while. Only on DVDs.

Sometimes when vieiwng a DVD, the image & audio will freeze for a few seconds or skip frames and jitter. It does it once or twice a month, even with new DVDs fresh out of the wrapper. It plays audio CDs, SACD, and DVD-A titles flawlessly, it's just every once in a while on movies it screws up. Sometimes ejecting the DVD and restarting clears up the problem, but it usually happens at an in-opertune time.

I can feel irritation beginning to simmer in the back of my mind and pit of my stomach. An optical player which retails for $999 should operate flawlessly without even a hint of a problem, especially when customer service/technical support is nil.

Anyone have an idea of what could be causing this?

If it happens during my HT debut for friends/family this fall I will personally drive it to Colorado and throw it through the front window of Listen-Up. :evil:

[junior77blue]

Does it happen every time at a certain point in the movie? Or is just random?

It still maybe the disc in combination with the player. Not saying it 'should' do this...but saying the disc is the root cause. I've had similar issues with my 2900 as well (purchased from ebay from listenup), but these were discs from netflix, I just shrugged it off cause there were scratches on the surface.

[Snap]

Nick- Have you contacted Listen Up? Or are they not interested in customer support? At least they are an authorized e-store.

I figure this is a good time to bring up a point.

Something to think about for all the people on the Guide...

There is a lot to concider when buying products on line. While the present joy of low prices is easy on the pocket book.........the lack of good customer support from your local installer is well worth the price change. Saving a small ammount or even a couple of hundred is not worth head ache if for some strange reason even a GOOD product breaks or has problems. (They all do at some time no matter how good it is. And you are going to have a bad one in the bunch every now and then any ways)

Lots of online companies also tend to say they are selling new in the box, but.....:nono: something else to be aware of.

A good AV store would not want Nick's grand opening to flop. It does not reflect well on there company. Most (and I say most not every one) e-stores care only about pushing boxes and not the lasting relationship of that of a custom store. And regardless of how Denon's support may be to Nick, I bet the installer would kick down doors to find an answer for him. (If he did not know the fix already)

Some custom shops even have gear you can take home and audition, as well as I need a DVD player while the one I got from you is getting fixed.

I also believe in keeping local business local. But that is just me.

To the Moderators....I did not mean to hi-jack this thread. ops:

[junior77blue]

Not to discount what you said Snap.

ListenUp was the only retailer carrying this product 'new' at the time. No brick and mortar shop had them in stock. If they did, they were floor demos. So, either pay the $1500 for a new 3910 or buy online an discontinued model (2900) for savings of $5-600.

[Snap]

Junior,
I can totally understand that point of view. I was simply using this incident to possibly help some one else in the future. In the shoes that you were talking I can't say that I disagree with you. Saving you 5 or 6 bills is one thing. All I was trying to say was use your local guy if it is not to much more. It will pay off in the long run in tech support and customer service. Not to mention he will be able to keep the doors open so when you want to demo a new product you actually have some place to look at the stuff.

But I totally understand the situation you described fully. :T

[Nick M]

It happens at random points in random films. I keep all my DVDs in 100% condition (no scratches), and as I said above, it happens on brand new titles as well. Not all the time though, maybe once out of every 20 movie goings. As I said above, CD/DVD-A/SACD performs flawlessly.

Going to call Listen-Up tomorrow.
They were the only place selling them new at the time.

My tolerance for failed consumer products at this price level is zero. If it's not resolved this will be the last Denon product I will ever own. :roll:

[aud19]

Are they by any chance discs all from the same studio...?

[Nick M]

Jason- Nope, different studios too.
----------
I just called Listen-Up (at my expense), the eTailer I purchased it from. I was told that all warranty work is done through Denon, and I must speak with them. I just finished placing 27 phone calls with Marantz/Denon, with no help but a secretary who kept forwarding my calls to an automated service which gave me answering machines, many of which had full mailboxes.

Placed two more calls to Listen-Up at my expense. I was told that I could ship it to them, and they would ship it to Denon. Turn-around would be 4-8wks. I asked for an equivalent replacement, and he told me that they will not replace it. Then I told him I was kind of upset being stuck with a paperweight that has a $1000 MSRP, and that I have to wait 2 months before I even get it back. He said "Sorry".

I will never own a Denon or Marantz product again. Let it be known they are hereby on my $#!T list. I'll use this unit for now, but having it skip/lockup at random once a month while watching a DVD shows how much quality Denon places into their trash.

I'm ready to crack some skulls. I feel like going out and voting for a bunch of neo-con republicans.
:F

DENON = TRASH

[junior77blue]

It's under warranty correct? All you need to do is find a local authorised repair shop for denon equipment.

However, they probably won't be able to fix it since the error is random and not easily reproduced.

[Nick M]

Some warranty. "Yeah we'll fix it, you should have it back around late September/Early October". Man am I ticked off right now. I'm so sour I'm not sure I want to even purchase a PJ tomorrow. Now I can't sleep either.:M

I wish Ascend Acoustics and SVS made everything I need for HT.

[junior77blue]

Well, why not take it to a local shop that is authorised for denon repair? Turn around might/should be quicker....

I guess I don't understand...what did you expect to happen? For denon to send you a new 3910? For them to repair next day? I could be wrong, but I don't think denon usa is set up to be a service center, they rely on local 3rd party shops to service their equipment.

Welcome to world of electronics where things do break randomly...whether u pay $10 or $10,000...don't let the price tag fool ya!

[Nick M]

I've been buying electronics for quite awhile, it's a pretty good portion of my spending.

With my laptop, I had a failed hard drive. Micro Express overnighted me a new HDD for free. When I bought my SVS PB10-ISD and decided I didn't like it, they picked up the shipping charges and had a 1646+ shipped express to me before they even got the PB10 back to credit my account. Ascend Acoustics and Outlaw Audio answered 3 dozen plus questions in full length.

I can't even get in touch with a Denon rep, and I'm told by the eTailer I purchased from that I essentially have to wait until September/October before I have it back. Nope. That crap doesn't fly in my book.

[aud19]

Well, why not take it to a local shop that is authorised for denon repair? Turn around might/should be quicker....

I guess I don't understand...what did you expect to happen? For denon to send you a new 3910? For them to repair next day? I could be wrong, but I don't think denon usa is set up to be a service center, they rely on local 3rd party shops to service their equipment.

Welcome to world of electronics where things do break randomly...whether u pay $10 or $10,000...don't let the price tag fool ya!

Yup, sorry Nick, I feel for you, I REALLY DO but Juniour's right. Get in to a local authorized Denon repair centre and see what they can do

Getting all mad and frazzled won't help matters at all Try to remain calm and take it step by step. I'm sure things will work out in the end :T Denon makes great gear, especially their DVD players, to unnecassarily freak out over one unit of an otherwise reputable model is just your anger/frustration talking.

[aud19]

With my laptop, I had a failed hard drive. Micro Express overnighted me a new HDD for free. When I bought my SVS PB10-ISD and decided I didn't like it, they picked up the shipping charges and had a 1646+ shipped express to me before they even got the PB10 back to credit my account. Ascend Acoustics and Outlaw Audio answered 3 dozen plus questions in full length.

Try to keep things in perspective Nick, those companies are setup for online service/support, that's part of their makeup. Denon is not an online based company, it's setup as a manufacturer/distributor with dealers/authorized repair centres to handle service support.

[Nick M]

Bruce Neher from Listen-Up just eMailed me and offered to replace my defective 2900 with an Open Box 2910. I'm still out my entire afternoon, 3 long distance phone calls, and return shipping for the 2900 to Colorado, but atleast they have now made an effort to resolve my problem.

I'm hoping I won't lose much in my DVD-A and SACD playback by stepping down to the 2910 (the 2900 is compared to the 3910), but there is no way I will wait 2 months for Denon to fart around with my 2900.

Chalk a good one up for Listen-Up.

But Denon has dropped the ball in my book...
Still holding by my previous statement of not purchasing another new product by Denon/Marantz though. Not getting through with 27 phone calls and having a 4-8wk repair turnaround on defective items they manufacture ranks right up there with Enron.

[aud19]

Careful there. From what I've read the 2910 is a step down from the 2900.....

[junior77blue]

Your almost better off buying a cheap $50 dvd player while the 2900 is being repaired. If anything, I wonder if they could give you 'credit' towards the 3910, but as you stated you do not want to purchase denon/marantz again. So, ask them about the sony or pioneer trade in.

[Snap]

Nick the 2910 is a great little player. :T I have it.

[mitch57]

Nick,

I know the feeling when a piece of gear goes bad. Even if it's under warranty it tends to put a sour taste in your mouth for that manufacturer/product.

But what would you do if it were a Bryston, Krell, McKintosh, or some other high end and well regarded manufacturer? Would you right them off as well?

The absolutely best made products in the world can have manufacture's defects. I don't care what it is or how much it costs. Anything that is mass produced will have a certain number of defective products. After all, who made these products? Humans, that's who. And humans make mistakes.

Unfortunately these are facts of life and it really sucks when it happens to you. Look on the bright side. You could have my kind of luck. Just about everything I own or have owned fails in one way or another. The car, the septic, the TV, etc... You name it! It breaks! And I buy quality stuff. And I go overboard when it comes to taking care of it. I'm a perfectionist! When I place a piece of gear in my rack I break out the tape measure to make sure it's exactly centered in the rack and has the exact same gaps all around.

Don't get to upset about these things at your age. It will catch up with you later on in life like it did with me. When you get to be my age you will already be pissed off at the slightest things that don't work as they should. :M :stupidpc:

Take a Chill Pill and enjoy the music. :lol: :beer:

[Nick M]

I'd enjoy the music if I had something to play it in... :lol: :roll:

At this price range I expect to be able to speak with a human regarding malfunctions during office hours on a standard business day. I also expect immediate service/repairs, or a replacement. If this was a Krell monoblock that crapped out, and I was told 4-8wks for a fix I would tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine and never purchase Krell equipment again.

The only thing worse than a malfunctioning product is a company that won't stand behind their products 100%. It's now my opinion that Denon is one of these companies, and they will never receive my hard-earned cash again.

Had to get the original 2900 box from my Dad's attic. Now I'm going through the process of packing it up nice and safe. Can't wait to see what I get hammered for this one... :roll:

[Andrew Pratt]

Nick I can sympatize but honestly if you remain in this hobby you're going to have a life time of dissapointment...todays gear simply isn't made to last if you're buying consumer grade products since things are moving so quickly they're typically obsolete before they fail. Typically these large companies have set up a dealer network that they rely on to deal with the front line customers so to be fair Denon doesn't need to have a person sitting by the phone waiting to hear from its customers thats what the dealers for.

[gd]

What the others said... it's inevitable that electronic gear fails (got a computer?)... fact of life.

As far as service goes, there's a big difference between an online vendor who manufactures their own product (SVS) and an online vendor who simply warehouses and moves boxes, with the promise of a discount (Listen Up)... and, sadly, don't expect a peep out of Denon... all you can do is march your defective piece into the service chain and bird-dog it.

Though Denon has had well-known QC issues, this is the first time I've heard of a 2900 going south... just bad luck... it's impractical to do this with everything, but in the case of a DVD player, it might be a good stress-reliever to have a backup -- I'd suggest Pioneer's entry-level universal player... you might be surprised how it performs for <$130, and have an opportunity to test how another manufacturer's unit works.

You assembled your system very carefully, and it's a big letdown when it fails... but we've all been there.

Feelin' yer pain...

[Nick M]

Denon vendors apparently have nothing to do with the warranty after 30 days (says alot for how much they back up the product they sell). Therefore Denon becomes the primary customer support for product failure given the product's 1yr warranty. Receiving no answer after making 27 calls on a business day during business hours is out of line. If this was a $39 APEX WalMart unit I could understand, but this was a DVD player that had a $1000 MSRP.

When I had trouble with my old Sony digital camera ($1200 MSRP), I called Sony and received excellent technical support after dialing the number, pressing 2, and waiting on hold less than 30 seconds. It seems to me that Denon has pretty much scrapped their support and placed the money elsewhere.

I'm a junkie when it comes to electronics, but no more money from me will be flowing to Denon.
----------
Just ate $27 in shipping to return the 2900 to ListenUp. So ~$630, two wasted afternoons, and two weeks without a paid-for product will get me a used 2910. I'm going to fall out of my chair in joy.

The other option was to pay $30 and be without an optical player until almost October.

Thanks Denon! :roll:

[AndrewM]

Did you try bringing it to an authorized service center?

http://www.usa.denon.com/support/network.asp

[mitch57]

Sorry to hear about all this. But it looks like your mind is made up. Some where down the road you probably won't own any Audio/Video gear because everything you bought at one time or another had a failure of some kind and you couldn't get the dealer/manufacture to repair or replace it within in 5 days.

It's unfortunate that these things happen but they do happen. It's a fact of life. :cry:

[aud19]

Did you try bringing it to an authorized service center?
http://www.usa.denon.com/support/network.asp

:agree:

[Nick M]

The two factory-authorized warranty repair centers are in Illinois and New Jersey.

I guess others feel waiting ~4-8wks for a repair is part of owning A/V products. If that becomes the industry standard for great companies such as Sony then I very well might get out of A/V. Thank heavens we have companies that actually care about their end user, and do everything in their power to solve problems with their products.

I expect exemplary service when spending over half a grand.
In the meantime Denon has lot this customer, as well as all my family/friends who look to me for gadget advice.

[gostan]

Nick:

I would be as upset as you with Denon due to their inability to deal with you one on one. Unfortunately, Denon is pretty well known for this type of inferior direct service. I suspect that the same may be true for a number of other so-called named electronics manufacturers.

I have owned a number of Denon receivers over the years and I own a Denon 2900 which was pre-ordered prior to being for sale on the open market from my local dealer (Natural Sound). So far, no problems for me. I guess I am lucky. But, if I had a problem, I could pack up the unit and bring it to my dealer who would give me a loaner (most likely not as good as my unit needing repair) and the dealer would send it to Illinois or New Jersey for repair. I would not be happy that my unit failed, but at least I would have a loaner and a dealer to follow up with the manufacturer. This is why I have always been very reluctant to purchase high-end audio-video equipment on line. B&M stores are still very viable.

I had a problem with a Rotel 1055 receiver which my dealer sent back to Rotel two times for repair. I received a loaner each time-but I had to disconnect and reconnect my entire system three times. Defective hi fi equipment is very frustrating. When my Rotel failed for the third time, my dealer arranged for Rotel to take it back for full credit, which I applied to a Rotel pre-pro, which works perfectly.

What happened to your 2900 could happen to any piece of equipment. I feel for all of your aggravation and frustration, but I am sure that this will all ease over time. It has for most of us, who, at some time or other, have been in the exact same position you are in.

Stan

[Ralph P.]

Greetings,

Nick, I think that you have reason to feel frustrated. There is nothing worse than owning a piece of gear and having a problem with it.

Having said that I think you need to keep things in perspective. You seem to think that Sony is a very fine company. I have seen others who feel the same way about Sony that you do about Denon now. The reason being? They had a bad experience and did not receive the satisfaction they were looking for. Everyone has a different idea or interpretation about what is considered a lot when it comes to spending money on this hobby we all share. You keep referring to the MSRP on the Denon 2900 and in fact you spent well under that for the unit. To me $500 is not a lot to spend on a quality DVD player. To you that may be a different matter entirely. Regardless, I agree with you that a certain level of confidence in the product is expected.

I know that Denon has very few authorized E-Tailers are you positive that the E-Tailer you purchased from is authorized to sell Denon gear? If not that could open up a whole new set of issues when you attempt to get service through Denon. Not to mention you may have purchased a gray market or refurbished piece of merchandise. It is true that when dealing an E-tailer you lose some of the benefits of having a local establishment that you can walk into. There is something to be said for that because you have a personal contact who knows you and will be willing to go that extra mile to keep you as a customer.

I owned the 2900 for a little over a year and now own the 3910. I can tell you that the 2900 is not comparable to the 3910 but is a step below overall. I loved the 2900 when I had it and it performed flawlessly. I bought mine from an authorized retailer shortly after the 2900 was introduced. I sold it after I upgraded to the 3910 back in September.

I have the opportunity to see lots of A/V gear most of which I put through the paces and write reviews on. I can attest to Denon's quality and feel that their gear is designed with the consumer in mind. Are they perfect? No. There are no manufacturers who are, however they do make gear using quality construction and parts.

I am sorry that this happend to you or to anyone. I agree that this is something that comes with the territory when dealing with electronics, it is a bit of a crap shoot. I also agree that Denon's customer service could stand improvement. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but you should try to keep things under control and hang in there.

I hope that you are happy with the 2910, it is a very good machine.

Best Regards,

[gostan]

Ralph:

How does the audio performance (2-channel particularly) of the 3910 differ and improve upon that of the 2900? Is it a slight or a dramatic improvement?

Stan

[Ralph P.]

Greetings,


Stan, the difference is a discernible one. It's soundstage is more precise while being wider. I would say that is has more top end air than the 2900 with a bit more detail. Multichannel high resolution audio is superior as well. To be honest I was suprised at just how good the 3910 was when compared to the 2900. The 2900 is certainly no slouch and sounds very good in it's own right.

[junior77blue]

ListenUp is an authorised denon e-tailer.

[Nick M]

Ralph, my comments were "kept in perspective", my perspective of how I was just screwed.

If you read the above posts you would have seen that ListenUp is an authorized eTailer for Denon products.

The 2900 was great... when it worked. So in my case reliability was 0 for 1, and support was 0 for 27.
Theres' some perspective for you. :roll:

[junior77blue]

I'm curious Nick, if ListenUp gave you any other options for 'trade'? Or was it just the 2910 and thats it?

[Nick M]

They had "Just Received" an "Open Box" 2910 an hour after I posted my experiences here and on AVS. I was offered this 2910 or I could have my 2900 repaired and wait until late September/early October.

I sent the 2900 out yesterday. They will receive it on Wednesday the 3rd. My new Sanyo PLV-Z3 is scheduled for delivery on Thursday the 4th. I'm guessing I won't have the 2910 until the 10th or so. :roll:

[junior77blue]

I just hope the 2910 isn't a defective return...I always hate buying 'used' optical players for that reason.

[fordster]

I had the same problem as Nick with my Denon 2800 Mark II. From searching forums it appears that this is a common problem with 2800, 2800 Mark II and 2900 DVD players from Denon. Having said that plenty of people do not have a problem.

Mine went back for repair once and it was away for a couple of weeks but luckily I had an old (and very reliable) Pioneer DVD player to use until it came back. It still had the same fault after it came back (but to a much lesser extent) and was noisier into the bargain. I found that the transport was very, very sensitive to dirt and scratches that any other player would just ignore. It then died at just under 2 years old. Denon's customer service is atrocious and I will personally never buy another Denon DVD player.

I now own a Rotel RDV-1060 which has been back for repair once due it not playing DVD Audio. The customer service from Rotel (and my dealer) was excellent and the player was turned around in a week. I didn't ask for a loan as I jsut went back to my trusty Pioneer.

[Ralph P.]

Ralph, my comments were "kept in perspective", my perspective of how I was just screwed.

If you read the above posts you would have seen that ListenUp is an authorized eTailer for Denon products.

The 2900 was great... when it worked. So in my case reliability was 0 for 1, and support was 0 for 27.
Theres' some perspective for you. :roll:

Greetings,

Nick, I did read the prior posts, however someone stating that an e-tailer is authorized does not make that the case. Listen-up IS authorized by Denon according to Denon's website. I should have taken the time to check yesterday and could have omitted that portion of my post.

I apologize if my comments regarding your perspective were taken as inflammatory by you. It was not my intent. I just meant that you purchased a discontinued piece of gear at a substantial discount and had a problem with it after 7 months. You then became very upset and proceeded to bash Denon as a company that sells inferior products. Something which is obviously not true, but because you are the one in the current situation it can be frustrating. I guess I was trying to point out that you may not want to make such decisions while you are upset.

As I stated Denon is not perfect, but as a whole they do produce gear which is very good. If you liked the 2900 there was a reason, maybe consider giving them a another try in the future. The same could be said of many other companies as well.

Good luck !

[DrJRapp]

Some warranty. "Yeah we'll fix it, you should have it back around late September/Early October". Man am I ticked off right now.

You can believe that. My 2900 was behaving similarly and eventually quit so it was sent by my dealer on October 30th (last year) to Denon for repair and received back in mid February of this year. Denon apologized for being "a little backed up" :T right!

Fortunatly, it has worked perfectly since.

[junior77blue]

Has there been documented evidence of this problem. I guess the better question is was it a certain batch or ALL of them that could have this issue? Or just random?

I have a 2900 and haven't had this issue yet, well at least the times it did there were obvious scratches on the DVD from netflix.

[Nick M]

I've posted this experience on three forums (HTGuide, AVS, Ascend Acoustics Forum) and there have been multiple people who have had this trouble and received little/zero service from Denon.

I don't like/have cable, so I use my setup solely for renting a few movies each week, and listening to music while I do other stuff. MY apartment has been awful quiet these past few days (and will continue to be for another week and a half)... :|