Halo A21 with Magnepan MG3.6/R

[HYM45]

Hi everyone,

Has anybody had an experience driving Maggie MG3.6/R with Parasound Halo A21? I'm planning to buy a new home theater system comprising Halo A21/Maggie MG3.6/R for front and Halo A51/Maggie CCR/MG1.6s for center and surround.

I'm more to the MUSIC than MOVIE. Is my choice of amps/speakers right? As this combination suits my budget the most.

Also, I'm planning to use Halo C2 as the pre/controller. Is it sonically inferior to the C1? Or just the absence of LCD monitor -- that shouldn't be worth $1,000 more.

Please kindly advice what is the best amps for Maggie MG3.6/R for the same price range.

Thanks a million

[Chris D]

Hey, hym, welcome to the Guide and Club Parasound! :banana: You'd have pretty much the setup that I want to do. I'd really love to drive Maggies with my Halo gear, but don't have those kind of funds now.

While I think the JC1's would be better suited with more power, for the power-hungry Maggies, I think your A21 will be very sufficient.

Yes, the C2 will be AWESOME for you. It's the exact same as the C1, minus the screen, one component input, and a different power supply.

In the same price range, I'd stick with the A21.

[HYM45]

Hi Chris,

Thank you so much for your advice. One more question if I may, should I opt for a new pair of JC1 for the front channels, will the A51 keep up for the other five channels. As the JC1's power is twice as much as the A51. And I certainly cannot afford JC1s for all the channels but love to have them for pure stereo listening. I'm more fond of the music than the movie.

Awaiting your advice, thanks...

[Peter Nielsen]

Has anybody had an experience driving Maggie MG3.6/R with Parasound Halo A21? I'm planning to buy a new home theater system comprising Halo A21/Maggie MG3.6/R for front and Halo A51/Maggie CCR/MG1.6s for center and surround.

Yes, I have first hand experience with A51, A21, JC1 and CC3, MC1, MG3.6, and MG20.1

The A21 is sufficient for the 3.6s. The A51 is a little too weak for the 3.6s, but works fine with all the smaller maggies.

I've been running 20.1s for the fronts, 3.6s for surrounds, MC1s for rears and CC3 for center.

The C1 is sonically identical to the C2. Yes, you pay a lot for that LCD, bigger box, and extra set of Component/RGBHV inputs.

As for JC-1s... Yes, a pair of JC-1s will be a little better than a single A21. You will, however, not be able to use all the power as the 3.6s will bottom out way before the JC-1 clips. (The JC-1 is more than enough to bottom out the big 20.1s).

Another, even better, choice is a pair of A21s and a good active crossover (XO). This lets you remove the passive XO from the MG3.6s and use one stereo amp per speaker. Note that Magnepan endorses active bi-amping in the manual (they know the shortcomings of the pasive XO, which is why they mounted it in an external box outside the speaker so that it can be easily removed).

Considering bi-amping also has the advantage that you can start out with just one A21 and expand as your economical situation allows. You can get a second A21 later and do passive bi-amping (using one stereo amp per speaker with the passive XO in place). Finally you can get the active crossover and remove the passive XO for true active bi-amping.

AFAIK, a pair of JC-1s are $7000. A pair of A21s are $6000, so when looking at the price of amps, bi-amping in itself is not more expensive. However, you also need an active crossover. An inexpensive (but still high-end quality) active XO from Marchand Electronics is $500. A quality Bryston 10B XO is ~$1800/$2300 depending on whether you need the unbalanced (RCA) or balanced (XLR) version, but lets you do more adjustments. (Magnepan uses the Bryston 10B in their lab). Depending on the XO you choose, active biamping may be either more or less expensive than a pair of JC-1s. IMHO, the result is better though. FYI: There is a used Bryston 10B-STD on Audiogon right now listing for only $800! Bryston has a 20 year warranty, so I'd say its safe to buy a used one unless you can't stand any physical imperfections...

Peter

[HYM45]

Thank you very much, Peter. You're a real Master. I'll take your insightful advice as a model for my new system setup. And may I say "what a fantastic system you have there." Totally impressed.

My new house will be completed by the end of this year, hopefully. I shall have an enclosed room sized 18x30x10 feet to accommodate all the audio/visual electronics as well as my Macintosh computers. I intend to install a 123 inch Stewart Firehawk G3 fixed projector screen too.

Would you be so kind as to share with me more details and, if possible, some pictures of your system? I'm curious to see how you have your room acoustically treated.

I've seen from the thumbnail pics that you placed the MG20.1s in their recommended position (with midranges/tweeters on the outside). But with that position 2.5-3.0 meters apart, would it affect the soundstage even if they are toed-in.

Moreover, if putting the raw power aside, does JC1 still sound much better than A21?

Looking forward to your suggestions..

Hym

[Vince Helm]

Hello HYM45,
I hope all is well with you. Best wishes on your new setup!!! If your passion is two channel then why not try a pair of JC1's and the new JC2 preamp and for the movie part, how about a quality DVD player running into the upcoming Halo P7 multichannel preamp? Just a thought.
Vince

[HYM45]

Hi Vince,

Thanks for sharing a thought. I'm sure that would be an ideal system for me. But the cruel fact is that I've spent a fortune on my new house, not to mention a bunch of italian furniture that my wife has already placed orders. And I'm a kinda buy only what I can afford. So I'll stick with a stereo amp for fronts and multi-channel for center and surrounds for a while. Still curious if the JC1s, not considering its power superiority, really outperform the A51 sonically. I know it's silly question, JC1s must be a better gear. But is it really worth spend $4,000 more. Any suggestion..?

Hym

[Zoran]

AFAIK, a pair of JC-1s are $7000. A pair of A21s are $6000, so when looking at the price of amps...

Peter

Peter, wasn't the Halo A21 US retail price 2000$? According to above, it's actually 3000$...? What's the current retail price of A21 in USA, indeed?

[Vince Helm]

I totally understand!!!!
Your first post reminded me of how I am (even more so now) in regards to music first, movies second. If I had it to do over again, I would put more money into the two channel side of music. Please know that I have not heard a pair of JC1's but I do use the A-21 on the fronts and the A-52 on the surrounds. I feel that the A-21 sounds much better than the A-52. For a while I was using an A-23 on the fronts and the move to the A-21 was well worth the extra money!. Go with what you can afford or at least not too far beyond that point. But, power is power and both music and movies need a lot of power in the area of dynamics in order to breathe and come alive... If I could, I would use a pair of JC1's just for the extra power alone but that would put me in the doghouse for at least 20 years. 8O Go to the Audio Advisor web page and bring up the JC1, the A21, the A51 and look at the internal photos of the circut boards and layouts. Also, email the sponsor at the top of this page, Media Design, and ask for Brent to give you a quote!

Best wishes as that is about all I can add to the conversation.
Vince

PS you can always upgrade latter down the road. :lol:

Hi Vince,
Thanks for sharing a thought. I'm sure that would be an ideal system for me. But the cruel fact is that I've spent a fortune on my new house, not to mention a bunch of italian furniture that my wife has already placed orders. And I'm a kinda buy only what I can afford. So I'll stick with a stereo amp for fronts and multi-channel for center and surrounds for a while. Still curious if the JC1s, not considering its power superiority, really outperform the A51 sonically. I know it's silly question, JC1s must be a better gear. But is it really worth spend $4,000 more. Any suggestion..?

Hym

[Peter Nielsen]

Peter, wasn't the Halo A21 US retail price 2000$? According to above, it's actually 3000$...? What's the current retail price of A21 in USA, indeed?

Uh! You're right! So two A21s with a Bryston 10B is BY FAR the better choice considering the money spent. BTW, if possible, I would recommend getting the balanced version of the 10B and placing the A21s next to the speakers with very short speaker cable runs of high quality. (IMHO the XLR runs are "easy" to do right with standard cable. Much easier than the speaker cables...)

Peter

[Peter Nielsen]

I've seen from the thumbnail pics that you placed the MG20.1s in their recommended position (with midranges/tweeters on the outside). But with that position 2.5-3.0 meters apart, would it affect the soundstage even if they are toed-in.

The tweeter in or out placement depends on the size of your room and the seating position. Magnepan tells you to try both and go with the placement you like best.

My experience is that if the seating area is on a distance farther than the distance between the two speakers, then you need to place the tweeters outside. (I.e. when placing the speakers on the SHORT side of the room, like I did).

When placing the speakers on the LONG side of the room, then it may be better to place the tweeters on the inside. In this case the seating is usually at equal, or closer distance as one speaker to another.

Moreover, if putting the raw power aside, does JC1 still sound much better than A21?

The difference is most noticable when you push the amp. At low power levels the differences between the A51, A21, and JC-1 are subtle when using MAGGIES. It is important to realize that with efficient speakers other issues arise that may introduce less subtle differences between the amps!


Peter

[Peter Nielsen]

Would you be so kind as to share with me more details and, if possible, some pictures of your system? I'm curious to see how you have your room acoustically treated.

Some older pictures of my room can be found in this thread:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13594&page=4

No room treatments. I know that's important.

Due to heat issues with owning nine JC-1s (not speaking of the electric bill), I've since moved on to a very cool-running all-digital Tact TCS & Boz 216/2200 based system with room correction. It helps to solve some of the room issues. The Boz 2200 modules have integrated digital crossovers that are extremely configurable (you could say that they have the equivalent digital functionality of the Bryston 10B and beyond). I'm now bi-amping all my Maggies.

When it comes to room treatments, etc. I plan to do this in my future house (2009?). I plan on building a dedicated home theatre with an in-wall Genelec active speaker system. (I plan to keep the MG20.1s for a separate music listening room).

Attached are a few recent pictures. If you check out the pictures in the old thread above, you can see the passive XOs on the 20.1s and 3.6s that are removed in the new pictures since I'm now doing active bi-amping on all speakers.

Pic #1: Lyngdorf CD1, Tact TCS room correction preamp, Boz 216 amp controller, Boz 2200 digital amplifiers (x5)
Pic #2: Slim Devices Transporter, Vigatec GVC1280 scaler, Sony DVP-S7700 DVD, etc...
Pic #3/4: Magnepan MG3.6 (no passive XO box, yay!!! :T )
Pic #5: Magnepan MG20.1 and Martin Logan Descent

Peter

[HYM45]

I totally understand!!!!
Your first post reminded me of how I am (even more so now) in regards to music first, movies second. If I had it to do over again, I would put more money into the two channel side of music. Please know that I have not heard a pair of JC1's but I do use the A-21 on the fronts and the A-52 on the surrounds. I feel that the A-21 sounds much better than the A-52. For a while I was using an A-23 on the fronts and the move to the A-21 was well worth the extra money!. Go with what you can afford or at least not too far beyond that point. But, power is power and both music and movies need a lot of power in the area of dynamics in order to breathe and come alive... If I could, I would use a pair of JC1's just for the extra power alone but that would put me in the doghouse for at least 20 years. 8O Go to the Audio Advisor web page and bring up the JC1, the A21, the A51 and look at the internal photos of the circut boards and layouts. Also, email the sponsor at the top of this page, Media Design, and ask for Brent to give you a quote!

Best wishes as that is about all I can add to the conversation.
Vince

PS you can always upgrade latter down the road. :lol:

Hi Vince,

Thanks again for your suggestion. After spending a few days going through what I have spent on the new house so far, it is likely that I shall have to start out with an A21 instead of a pair of JC1s. Yet the idea of using JC1s for the front hasn't died, maybe a year afterward. But if the trade-in price drops too much, then I shall have to use Peter's strategy--getting one more A21 for Bi-Amplification--which sounds very interesting and promising.

Hym

[HYM45]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for sharing the photos of your system. It's WOW! You made me so envious.

I spent days searching for articles about the MG3.6/R to see what amplifier most people used for their maggies. Only a few came up with Parasound. Still they are a good match for me in terms of performance and affordability.

The funny thing I found is that some people use Japanese receivers to drive the MG3.6/R!!! If I'm not mistaken, those receivers don't even have 4 ohms driving capacity.

As for acoustic treatment, I'm quite concerned but doesn't like the look of those QRD or other weird looking diffusors. Actually, I'd prefer the room to be treated transparently. Did you have any experience with RPG B.A.D. panels? They look quite decent to me but not sure if their diffusibilty is good enough. I prefer more of a LIVE room than a DEAD one.

Hym