705 or 805?

[EAmin]

I'm looking to use bookshelf speakers for my home theater, as I have two young kids who would destroy floorstanders. I'm very impressed with the reviews the 705s are getting, but am questioning whether to spend the extra dollars for 805s. I don’t mind dropping extra dough as long as it is a better investment and better sound.

I will mainly use the speakers for home theater, but I will listen to a lot of music. And my CD collection is all over the place --- everything from Phantom of the Opera to AC/DC and Van Halen. I listen to a lot of rock & roll and alternative rock so bass is important, and I've heard the 805 doesn't have as much bass. Plus, the 805 has been out for some time whereas the 705 is a newer model --- although lower-end. I was actually entertaining mixing and matching with the following:

(2) 705 bookshelf
(1) HTM2 center (nautilus series) --- lots of folks I speak with complain about HTM7.
(1) ASW700 Sub
(2) CCM80 (rear in ceilings)

all powered by Rotel gear.

Any advice on whether to go with the 705 or 805? Any comments on my speaker selection as a whole? Thanks in advance for your help.

[Aussie Geoff]

EAmin,

(2) 705 bookshelf
(1) HTM2 center (Nautilus series) --- lots of folks I speak with complain about HTM7.
(1) ASW700 Sub
(2) CCM80 (rear in ceilings)
all powered by Rotel gear.

Any advice on whether to go with the 705 or 805? Any comments on my speaker selection as a whole?

Get the ASW750 sub if you can - much better value / bass for the buck than the 700...

705s are a great sounding speaker and relatively easy to drive - your Rotels will be able to do this well with the RMB-1075 or even some of their recievers) - the 805s are even better speakers but need some serious amplification to get the best from (think Rotel RMB-1095 or better!) - so may not be worth the extra investment.

HTM2 and HTM7 are both good matches for the 705 - the HTM2 will give clearer sound. Personnally I would listen to both and decide which you like... However the HTM7 is basically a 705 in a different box so I would suggest it will be the best value match for you. Equally if you were getting the 805s then I would recommend the HTM2.
(With centre channels you ae after a timbre / match on the vocals for dialue etc - which is why most Nautilus 804 and up buyers go for the even more expensive HTM1 to match with the FST midrange on the 3 way speakers - but this isn't an issue for you with the 705).

The CCM80 is a pretty serious in ceiling speaker with its 8 inch driver etc... Very nice sound but probably moe basic bass than your 705s. IF you wish to trim back $ at all the CC85 has 6.5 inch drivers that are the same size as the 705s...

Geoff

[jlee]

My opinion is if you're going to go HTM2, go 805... they are only $500 more list... it's important to match the front 3 to get the most our of your system... I'd even sacrifice a bit of rear to get the front 3 matched. If you go 705, might as well go HTM7.

[watchthewaves]

How would you compare the trebles?

Geoff,

Seeing that the newer 7xx series are using a new extended frequency tweeter in the same tapered tube enclosure as the older 8xx series, how do you find the differences in the treble?

Slightly off the original post, but looking at the specs of the 703 and the 804, they both seem pretty close, so was wondering whether the newer tweeter betters the 8xx's treble. I have not had a chance to do a comparative listen as yet.

[Aussie Geoff]

SimonS,

Good question...

I have listened carefully and the 703 an 803 are relatively similar sounding. They have remarkably similar treble and the 703 has little less clear midrange. Bass was very similar with (to my ears) an edge for the 703. (the 803 however was a significant step up for the extra $)

In Ausrtalia the 804 is about 50% more in cost that the 703 and I couldn't hear the value for it. Now the HTM1 is magnificent and a very close match to both the 804 and the 703. Hence my current strong temptation

Geoff

[jlee]

I had the 1NT and upgraded to the 705 in my office setup. The main improvement of the 705 was indeed the nicer tweeter. Highs were much more detailed and defined... more sweet and musical. Bass was a bit more extended as well without losing definition and tightness. They attached the center piece to the driver on the 705 to make it heavier so I thought it would sacrifice a bit of quality for quantity, but that was not the case. I personally found the 705 better in every way compared to the 1NT.

As for specs, you can't really put much weight towards them. You gotta listen .

The "edge" for the 703 in the bass department vs the 803 is not really an edge... it is the cabinet resonance you are hearing. Upon first listen, I too thought the 703 had more bass than the 804 when I compared them. Upon more careful listening, that extra bass was "noise" that was not part of the program material.

With the proper front end equipment and more careful listening, I think you will find the 804 is the much better speaker than the 703. However, if you cannot hear the improvement, or prefer the 703 for whatever reason (some people actually like the extra "bass output from the cabinet" and there is nothing wrong with that), then save your money and go for the 703.

[sikoniko]

I thought the htm2 and 805s were a great pair. just kind of thin for me. I didnt have as good amplification then that I have now though.

[EAmin]

Thank you all for your responses.

[Pez]

The HTM7 is a great center channel, I would take the bad reviews you are seeing with a grain a salt. Even though I dont have my 705's and HTM7 anymore (I wanted floorstanding speakers - Def Techs to be exact) I thought the HTM7 was one of the best center channels I have ever owned, period, and I have owned about 6 different center channels over the past couple of years. It is extremely clear sounding.

One more thing to consider is magnetic shielding, the 705's are not but the 805's are. Also, the matching floorstands for the 805's are very expensive.

[Aussie Geoff]

Pez,

I agree with you re the HTM7 - it is aurally a very close match to the 705 (almost perfect) so if someone is looking at the 705 the HTM7 is a perfect match and very good sounding. It's just that for midrange the FST mid driver in the 703, 804, 803 etc is a step up again in clarity and tonally very distinctive - making the HTM1 a better match IMO... Interestingly there have been several posts across a number of forums re B&W looking at developing a 700 seris centre to match the 703 and 704 - a great idea cost wise!

Geoff

[EAmin]

705, 805...or 802?

Again, thanks to all for responding to this post.

I actually went down to a local dealer to check out the 705s and 805s. They sounded even nicer than everyone made them out to sound --- both were really clean. But of course, there were some even nicer 802s sitting right next to them. I'd never heard them before. Just for grins, I had the guy turn on the 802s and they sounded SO nice. I REALLY want a pair of them instead. I’m still concerned about the floor-standers with kids, but I’m willing to take the risk. The guy at the shop said he’s had customers come in from time to time to touch up the finish. Plus, my kids are pretty well behaved. But they are kids, and accidents happen from time to time. I guess I’m a little paranoid because these speakers will be my other babies. So my new proposal is the following:

(2) Nautilus 802s
(1) HTM1
(2) Signature 7NTs (rear surrounds)
(1) ASW800 (or should I go with the 850?)

I guess this requires me to bump up the wpc on the amp so I’ll go with a Rotel 1095 instead of the 1075.

Also, I could not help wondering about the Nautilus 800, and how this compares to the 802. Is it a far superior speaker to the 802? It’s twice the cost of the 802. I would entertain it, but I’m not sure if I’m getting better value from them vs. the 802.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Aussie Geoff]

EAmin,

I like the way you think :dothewave:

From "thinking about" 705s to "planning to buy" 802s in one smooooth stroke... Way to go!!!!

Might as well get that upgraditis out of the way early....

1) ASW800 (or should I go with the 850?)

Unless your room is very small (apartment size) you need (deserve) the ASW850 to go with the 802s. Check out several threads such as these:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8727

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8727

I guess this requires me to bump up the WPC on the amp so I’ll go with a Rotel 1095 instead of the 1075.

This will get complex. You are 100% correct about the RMB-1075 being not enough!. The reality is the 802s will take and keep improving with every improvement in amplifier power you can throw at them. We have a number of happy members with 802s driven by RMB-1095s. We also have others who have had a great improvement stepping up to the RB-1090 for the 802s and using the 1095 for a 7.1 system (an interesting future upgrade option). I would say that the RMB-1095 is the minimum you should consider and then be prepared to ad a 2 channel amplifier later when you move to a 7.1 system.

Now IF you can afford it now I'll pre-empt (sneak preveiw) others who will tell you that:
>> Earthquake Cinenova Grand 5 x 300W will do a great (probably better) job of driving the 802s (for more money!)
>> A number of the Bryston amps will absolutely to a better job for over twice the price (they have a great 3 channel amp the 6B SST)
>> Krells are awesome (as is their price)
>> Classe make great amps (with similar jaw dropping prices)
>> McIntosh make some great warm amps that drive the 802s well...
>> Etc...

Equally - buy the Rotels now and later when / if you want to and can afford it - you will get a good price for the Rotels and can upgrade the amps for a further step up in sound quality... This is what I would do unless I had the extra few thousand for the amps now in which case I would listen very carefully to the Bryston and Earthquakes…

Anyway you go - make sure you get quality bi-wire speaker cables - the 802s are designed for them...

Geoff

[sikoniko]

Now IF you can afford it now I'll pre-empt (sneak preveiw) others who will tell you that:
>> Earthquake Cinenova Grand 5 x 300W will do a great (probably better) job of driving the 802s (for more money!)
>> A number of the Bryston amps will absolutely to a better job for over twice the price (they have a great 3 channel amp the 6B SST)
>> Krells are awesome (as is their price)
>> Classe make great amps (with similar jaw dropping prices)
>> McIntosh make some great warm amps that drive the 802s well...
>> Etc...

I bought my cinenova for a little more than one would pay for the 1095. I really wouldnt go the rotel route if I were you, if that amount is in your budget. It would only cost your a couple hundred more and you would get dedicated 300wpc with the 2:1 ratio b&w recommends for 802's.

If you are wanting spend some money, I've heard great things about Lexicon and Bryston of course (where is JimmyP to comment?)

You could buy a grande 5 and a grande 3 for less than either of those (lexicon or bryston), bi-wire your 802's, run 7.1 and still have an extra channel. Never know, 8.1 could be in the future (heheh) or even bi-wire the center.

If you can go 800, might as well go signature 800 and signature htm and get the improved cross-over. I think that is probably over the top, and these are rather BIG speakers, but if you have the room, go for it. I think they are 1000w /ch though so you'd need a bigger amp. Then you could go classe omega monoblocks like b&w does. gosh it's fun spending other peoples money.

seriously, Instead of the signature 7's, you might want to consider signature 8's. They are more money, but you buy a box (b&w piece) for them to mount in the wall and you get a more controlled, and better sound.

[Aussie Geoff]

Sikoniko,

I try to always quote Manufacturers Recommended Retail (MRRP) in any comparative recommendations for amplifiers etc.
>> MRRP on the Earthquake Cinenova Grande 5 is US$4,499.00
>> MRRP on the Rotel RMB-1095 is US$1,999
Now that is $2,500 more rather than "only a couple of hundred more"....

I am aware that some people have (ah hem) special contacts that can get the Earthquake significantly cheaper than the MRRP...

I know it's a great amp... And it would indeed be a "no brainer - grab it straight away" bargain at (say) $2,199 which is half MRRP and "only a couple of hundred more" than the Rotel RMB-1095

If these contacts still work you may want to share them (either a Post or a PM) with EAmin otherwise we are talking more than double the cost...

Geoff

[EAmin]

RB-1090 w/802

Honestly, I really like the Rotels and would like to stick with them. I'm liking the RB-1090 idea with the 1095. Forgive the dumb question: Can I do this even though I don't have seven speakers? Eventually, I would like to do 7.1, but not now. But I would like to feed the 802s the power they need now if possible. With this said, could I have the 802s powered by the 1090 (380 wpc) and the other three by the 1095 (200 wpc) leaving two open channels for future use. I was going complement with the 1098 surround sound processor that does 7.1. And of course, any two channel listening would be done by the 1090.

Also wondering if 200 wpc is too much for the htm1 and the 7nts? Just wondering if I should go down to the 1075 at 120 wpc for center and in-walls.

Thank you! You guys are awesome!

- Eddy

[Aussie Geoff]

EAmin,

With this said, could I have the 802s powered by the 1090 (380 wpc) and the other three by the 1095 (200 wpc) leaving two open channels for future use. I was going complement with the 1098 surround sound processor that does 7.1. And of course, any two channel listening would be done by the 1090.

I like the way you think. Excellent set-up and expandable for the future... Go for it...

Also wondering if 200 wpc is too much for the htm1 and the 7nts? Just wondering if I should go down to the 1075 at 120 wpc for center and in-walls.

No defiinetly stick to the RMB 1095 for the other channels - the HTM1 is really a 804 in a centre box and loves power and bi-wiring etc. The RMB-1075 just won't do it justice...

Your 7nt's will sound better for the extra power and current as well...

Now - I strongly suggest you get your dealer to set this system up for you so you can listen - this will help you be confident.... Besides - the more time you spend with the dealer - the more they feel committed to give you a good disocunt.... Practice some lines like "I only came in to listen to the 705s and you've talked me into this high end gear - I'm not sure how I am going to afford it" as well as "What If I need to upgrade later?"

Geoff

[jlee]

1. Totally agree about going with the 1095. I had the 1075 and upgraded to the 1095. Improvement is very noticeable with a speaker as revealing as the Nautillus line.
2. Agree again on HTM1 and 7NT liking the 200W... ESPECIALLY the HTM1... u want the center to be almost equal to the fronts... not just in total power, but in clean power and quality power... 1075 is nowhere near the 1090... 1095 comes surprisingly close for a 5 channel amp.
3. I would biamp the center, use 2 ch for the surrounds and leave 1 channel not used for now. That way you have 4 channels out of the 5 being used and it will sound better at loud volumes during "busy scenes" like the fight scenes in Gladiator. The amp won't have to work as hard and you'll get a bit better dynamics and clarity.

[sikoniko]

Honestly, I really like the Rotels and would like to stick with them.

I'm a little curious to see if you have auditioned other amps, just to compare or if you heard just the rotel and are satisfied. If not, I would recommend listening, if not to just further strengthen your decision on the rotels.

[EAmin]

I have not heard many amps --- no high-end amps. Honestly, I'm thinking I won't hear the differences like you more experienced HT folks would. This is actually my first home theater.

I know that I very much like the Rotels --- the entire line. I like the sound and love the way they look. They are very affordable, even though I'm willing to spend more. I especially like the fact that they kinda go hand-in-hand with B&W speakers with the shared research facility and the testing they do with each other. This tells me they complement each other very well. Also I like the fact that my entire line can be Rotel --- amps, processors, dvd players, cd players, etc. Although, I'm going to wait for the new universal dvd (hopefully next year). Presentation is also important to me too. Most importantly, I've done a lot of research (magazines, internet, talking to folks) and most of the stuff is very positive about Rotel.

[DrBoom]

If you decide to go with the 805, don't settle for an RMB1075 as amplification, these speakers deserve and need better amps.
For the 705 it's OK, but more power will always (most of the time anyway) be better.
I started out with the 805's as fronts, powered by the 1075, and I was really happy that I had everything looking the same (1098 + 1075).
After a few days/weeks, the combination still didn't sound half as good as I was expecting from the 805's so I quickly came to realise that the amp was inadequate.
I sooo wanted to keep the 1075 because it looked so good with my 1098, but it just didn't sound the way I wanted it to so it had to go.
What I'm trying to say is, components that look good and have good specs don't necessarily sound good too, so don't get too accustomed to the idea of having all components from the same brand/type.
I too kept telling myself: "hey it's nicely built, big power supply, looks good and it's in some way affiliated with B&W so it has to be good"
But I just couldn't live with the sound, because I had heard the 805 on several other amps and they all sounded way better.
Not saying the 1075 isn't good, but it's in a different league.
So I'd advise you to at least compare 1 other brand against a Rotel poweramp, and if you still like it then it's a safe buy

[jlee]

Totally agree with the 1075 amp not doing the 805 justice. It's great for a 5 ch amp costing $1000 (really hard to beat) but for pure 2 channel, the 1095 is the minimum one should go with the 805 if a 5 channel amp is desired. However, being that EAMIN said he's a beginner, I don't think the 1075 is a bad beginner amp. I doubt it would make the 805 sound "bad" to him. It wouldn't hurt to get it and get used to the sound if his dealer has a trade in program. That way if he does upgrade, he will appreciate the improvement more. It's hard to appreciate the improvement if you haven't heard the "baseline" reference first. Just my opinion. Good luck.

[sikoniko]

didnt he say he wanted to go with the 802's? maybe I read too much into it?

I really recommend listening to a few amps. aesthetic value will only go so far if it doesn't get the most out of your speaker. You won't find an earthquake amp at any local stores. My recommendation would be to try and listen to them with bryston.