Going from 7NT to 804?

**luszer** · 15 July 2004, 12:28 Thursday

I have been able to compare 1nt and 9nt to the N805. I really feel the 805 provide more smoothness, less bass vs the 9nt, however a cleaner more accurate presentation. Instruments are more easily identified and truly sound more life like.

I have only had the 9nts about a 2 months now and 805s for about 3 weeks. But overall the 805 is a sweeter sounding monitor and more refined.

I did get a great deal on the 9nts, but I have been tossing around the idea of doing another upgrade. However moving past the 805 (803 or 802) means potential other upgrades as well, amps, source, etc.

Happy listening, my home is becoming a B&W showroom

Ron

**sikoniko** · 15 July 2004, 13:35 Thursday

One thing to keep in mind... if you plan on using the 804's or higher for home theater use, plan on getting the htm1 for your center duties also. Anything less is a bad match.

**aarsoe** · 15 July 2004, 13:49 Thursday

Will

If it was me I would take the Signature 805.

Why? Well first and foremost the look. They are small art objects that your better half would appriciate (and if you dont have one yet, then they will show good taste and help you get one :P )
Second, the signature version is upgraded with better cross over, a tweeter that goes higher and will not leave you wanting much at the bottom end.
Should you want some additional oumph, then get a good sub and you would be far better of then with the 804.

Remember you can not make your assesment based on the normal 805, the signature version is different and not like the signature 800 that is all about better looks but same sound..

**will1066** · 16 July 2004, 11:54 Friday

You make it tough on me, aarsoe.

Anyway, I plan on listening to both tomorrow. Will report my impressions afterward.

**jwakaruk** · 16 July 2004, 18:21 Friday

Will

I was in a similar situation about a year ago and was trying to decide on the N804's VS Sig 805 as an upgrade from my 9nt. I went with the 804's and have had no regrets. If the price was the same I would have opted for the Signatures but w/stands I couldn't do it. The biggest improvement from the 804's over the 9nt's was mainly cosmetic as sonically the speakers are very similar. Better imaging and control with the 804's but the difference alone is probably not worth the extra pricetag. I purchased the Red Cherry version and love the way these speakers look in my setup. I have no desires to change my speakers for a very long time; but am starting to feal the urge to upgrade source components to see how good the 804's really can be.

**gostan** · 28 July 2004, 01:14 Wednesday

Will:

I just returned from vacation and I was catching up on emails and various forums, when I noticed this new thread. I have yet to pull the plug on my upgrade and since I have a few days before returning to work, I am going to spend some more time listening to the 804's and determine if I should upgrade. I would enjoy your own thoughts as to whether the 804's are a worthwhile upgrade from the 7NT's.

Stan

**will1066** · 29 July 2004, 14:00 Thursday

Hi Stan and all,

Life has taken over for a bit, so I haven't had a chance to go audition the speakers. My plan now is to try next week.

**gostan** · 29 July 2004, 18:41 Thursday

I listened again to the 804's today. They sound like a great upgrade from the 7NT's. But, I also listened to the 803's and that is a much better sounding upgrade (albeit a more expensive one). The 803's had none of the brightness of the 804's and appear to be more efficient with no strain at all to enhance the soundfield. What an amazing sound! The 804's sound good. The 803's sound unbelievable to my ears.

**will1066** · 12 August 2004, 15:57 Thursday

Finally scheduled a 804 demo at one of my local dealers. It will be fed by an Arcam disc player and Rotel RC 1070 and RB 1070. Will let you know later tonight how it went.

**gostan** · 12 August 2004, 20:23 Thursday

Will:

I hope that you are out late this evening listening to those 804's with all kinds of great demo discs to place in that Arcam Player. I am sitting here on my couch continuing to break in my 803's. Right now I am listening to Blood Sweat & Tears second disc, a 1969 recording on SACD (in stereo). This disc would sound absolutely fabulous on those 804's your are demoing right now.

Stan

**will1066** · 12 August 2004, 21:06 Thursday

Stan, I'm back.

Here are my impressions, but before that, a little on the condition of the demo room. It was not the best conditions. The dealer is on Broadway in the heart of Greenwich Village, NYC, so, needless to say (but I will, anyway

) it's a high-traffic store. So, the room has a bunch of B&Ws - CM4, 6, 705, N805, Sig 805 - laid out next to each other, in a semi-arc, easy for demo to a high volume of people. The 804s were in another room, so the guy rolls in a pair of 804s on a hand truck and places them in front of the B&W arc. Again, not the best conditions. The CD player was the Arcam 93, pre was RC 1070, amp was RB 1070.

I sat about 6 feet from the 804s. They were about 5 feet apart. At home, I sit (unfortunately due to my room layout) 10 feet away with my 7NTs 7 feet apart.

The 804s are definitely more upfront but had a good deal more clarity. Transparency was excellent. Details that I picked up at home barely but with much darkness around them were clarified on the 804. I don't know if sitting closer to the speakers in the demo helped, but probably. The bass seemed to kick in and out during the demo; I think it was a room problem. Again, not the greatest room conditions. I like the speakers; I think the FST midrange yields a good deal of advantage over non-FST B&Ws. I also listened to the Sig 805 very shortly. I think it's recessed, especially with the 804 next to it.

I plan to go to another dealer for a second listen. Hopefully, the room conditions will be better.

**sikoniko** · 13 August 2004, 08:11 Friday

Keep in mind that these speakers will sound different (and better) on different amps. Try and reproduce the amp you have at home if possible, so you can have a better idea of what you be listening to at home.

**will1066** · 13 August 2004, 09:15 Friday

Hey, sikoniko. I have a RB 1080 at home. The dealer didn't have one on hand, I guess. The rig in the demo was reasonably close to what I have at home (1070 demo/1080 home; Arcam CD93 demo/CD92 home; RC 1070 demo/RSP 1066 home). Nevertheless, I'm going to try my other dealer and hook up a pair with a 1080.

**gostan** · 13 August 2004, 12:57 Friday

Will
I think that you hit the nail on the head with your comment about the fst midrange in the 800 series speakers v. the cdm series. I found my self hearing instruments and sounds from the 804's and 803's the nature of which were not available to my ears with my 7NT's. I listened to a Ray Brown Trio disc which I am very familiar with and some of the instrumentals were so much more clear and realistic with the 803's and 804's.

Room acoustics and setup are definitely a problem with speaker demo's, so you should find a dealer with a decent room setup. I do not think that 5 feet apart is a fair way to demo the speakers, especially if yours at home are 7 feet apart-this will change the soundstage more than your distance from your seating area I am still experimenting with my own speaker-rack locations. One is better for stereo (about 7 feet apart). The other is better for HT and aesthetic (about 10 feet apart). Time to sell, I guess.

Stan

**luszer** · 13 August 2004, 15:17 Friday

I have been following the thread and for what its worth, I spoke with my dealer yesterday regarding moving from 9nt to 804 or maybe 803s.

I am fortunate enough to have a pair of 805s, and I simply love them for 2 channel listening

The dealer said coming from the 9nt, I will long for the 803 if I went for the 804. I guess from the 7nt to the 804 is a considerable upgrade but from the 9nt its more lateral.

Then comes the HTM1 and make sure you have enough power and your electronics sources are up to snuff. I am debating upgrading my pre/pro from a Rotel 1066 as well.

I am wondering if its best and simple to have 4 N805s, HTM2, and either the 800 or 850 sub and call it a day.
I feel the 805s are very accurate and provide great detail for 2 channel and simply envoke the 800/850 for movies.

I really enjoy this hobby, but boy its expensive

Ron

**sikoniko** · 13 August 2004, 16:36 Friday

Originally posted by luszer

I am wondering if its best and simple to have 4 N805s, HTM2, and either the 800 or 850 sub and call it a day.
I feel the 805s are very accurate and provide great detail for 2 channel and simply envoke the 800/850 for movies.

Ron

Sounds like a good setup. I am using a 1056 as my pre/pro right now, and I can't complain. I know there are better, but a good amp will make up for it. I would stick w/ the 1066 for now.

What are you using for your amp? while rotel amps are great, I don't know how much I care for them when matched with nautilus speakers.

Anyone that tells you the 804 is not good or a strong speaker in itself is smoking crack. plain and simple. Mine sounds simply amazing. 804's, and an htm1 in your front soundstage are a beautiful combination and is significantly better than the 805's, htm2 combo (which doesnt offer the fullness of the first set). Like anything, it takes good cables, and a good amp to make them sing. My rotel 1056 did not power the 804's well at all. was fair for the 805's.

**luszer** · 13 August 2004, 19:27 Friday

Sikoniko

Absolutely no disrespect to the 804. I think they are wonderful and so does my dealer, he's just doing his job and upselling.
I think the smart thing to do is not to listen to 803, so I don't know what I'm missing. I should keep the demo's to 805, 804 and my 9nt.

I use rotel all around, I have a 1075 for HT and a rb991 for 2 channel.
I was considering moving into Classe amps, but I'm thinking that is also somewhat of a lateral move as well.

I read your earlier posts regarding your upgrade dilemma and I am in a similiar situation, getting married next year and I would like to make the upgrades- no questions asked- if you know what I mean.

In a weird way its somewhat enjoyable to be in such a quandry.

**will1066** · 15 August 2004, 00:18 Sunday

Had another demo today at a second dealer, although I think it was a "wash". The listening room was better than the first dealer, in a much more relaxed, living-room atmosphere. The source this time was an Arcam FMJ CD23. But the dealer didn't have a Rotel amp on hand (unbelievable, after I asked for one for the demo) and instead drove the 804 with a RX 1050 stereo receiver(!) Great. Effin great. What were my brother - who tagged along because I wanted his opinion - and I going to do, since we already took an hour to get there? So we knew this demo wasn't going to give us an accurate picture of the speakers, but we stayed.

Regardless, there's no denying the 804's midrange is open and articulate. My brother agreed. He said the soundstage is much more open and wider than the 7NT. However, he has ears of a bat and said there was a peak - a brightness - in the upper midrange/lower treble. This comes from a guy who, while the 804 was playing, noticed that a Rotel CD player's drive was running but no sound output, at the side of the demo room. I didn't hear it. He's got good ears. Honestly, I didn't really notice the upper midrange/lower treble peak since I was focused on that sweet midrange. Also, my brother and I fully agreed there was a huge amount of both boomy and bloomy bass. Room problem again? Lack of cone control by the Rotel 1050? At the other dealer, I noticed a very uneven bass region, full of peaks and valleys, indicated by the way the bass seemed to "kick in and out" during songs.

Plan is to visit the first dealer again, with my brother tagging along again. My hope is the upper midrange/lower treble peak he heard was a fluke. At least the 804 at that dealer was driven by a RB 1070. Might even go to a third dealer if these first two dealers can't accommodate a suitable setup with these speakers.

**sikoniko** · 15 August 2004, 15:43 Sunday

In looking back on my situation, here is my recommendation.

1. Figure out how much money you have to spend first. By setting yourself a budget, that you won't go over, you will be able to work within a particular product range.

2. Allow your budget to account for a complete soundstage upgrade when upgrading mains. You will want consistency across the front soundstage and by upgrading one piece to a higher level of speaker will break this flow and cause an uneven sound.

An example would be, If you upgrade to 805's, keep in mind that you will want, if not need to upgrade to an htm2 center, and possibly your sub. If you upgrade to 804's, you will need to also upgrade your center, but to the more expensive htm1, and possibly your sub.

With that in mind.

Package A:
N805's $2000US
NHTM2 $1000US
Stands $200-$600 (depending on what you get)
New Sub $2200-$3000

So, that path would cost between $3200 and $6200.

Package B:
N804's $3500US
NHTM1 $2000US
New Sub $2200-$3000

This path would be between $5500 and $8500.

Those figures do not account for dealer discount, trade in value or resale value of current speakers or any speaker wires you might need as well as new amplification for the 804's and htm1.

b&w can certainly fit a speaker into any level of quality. What you need to do is not get trapped into is biting off more than you can chew, which is kinda what I did.

**gostan** · 15 August 2004, 17:48 Sunday

Will:

Your brother heard the diffference between the 804's and the 803's. The 803's do not have any of that upper midrange brightness or upper bass boominess. Then again, for the price difference, they shouldn't!!

I have two questions or suggestions: (i) were the 804's long -broken in at the second dealer. i.e. how many hours on them, and (ii) please try the 804's with a more powerful amplifier. To be honest, I thought that the 804's were less efficient and required more power than the 804's. I am running an Aragon 8008 on my 803's, which is 200 x 2 @ 8 ohms and 300 x 2 @ 4 ohms. IMO, The 1050 does not havesufficient power to get all that the 804's have to offer to your ears. The problem may not be the second dealer's listening room at all.

Stan

**will1066** · 16 August 2004, 15:48 Monday

Stan, I couldn't tell you the age of the demo 804. I would love to consider the 803, but it's a no-go due to space and budget constraints. Plan is to go back and listen to the 804 again on a suitable power amp. Wish me luck.

**jwakaruk** · 16 August 2004, 22:12 Monday

Will,

Something to consider with the 804's is that with the proper amp (not necessarily more wattage output) these speakers are capable of incredible sound. For the past couple of weeks I've been auditioning a Pass Labs
Aleph 30 (30 Watts Single Ended Class A) with these speakers and can honestly say I've never heard them sound better. My current amp, the Rotel 1075, with 4X the wattage doesn't come close to the level of sound quality for 2 channel music. In a smaller listening room you may not need the excess power to get the sound you're looking for. I guess it depends how loud you really need to go, as I've discovered that power output in amplifiers doesn't really determine their quality. My advice would be to audition these speakers with as many quality amps as possible, you may find some real nice surprises out there.

**sikoniko** · 17 August 2004, 08:22 Tuesday

I agree. I don't think rotel amps are a very good match for the nautilus series. They are fine for lower models, but when you get up to nautilus, you really need to look around.

**gostan** · 17 August 2004, 15:39 Tuesday

I added the Aragon amp (to replace my Rotel 1075) to power my fronts when I was still listening to my 7NT's. I was amazed at the difference in the clarity of the sound that this change made. I will probably consider replacing the Rotel 1075 at the same time I upgrade my CDM 1NT rears to either 805's or 804's. I would like to find a great three channel amp for the center and rears or to run my fronts and center (move the Aragon to the rears).

**sikoniko** · 17 August 2004, 18:15 Tuesday

gostan, consider the cinenova 3 from earthquake. I have the grande 5 and it is amazing. it has been said to be very similar to bryston. The 7.1 doesnt exist.

404 - Article not found

http://www.earthquakesound.com/amplifiers.htm

I highly recommend this amp. It can be had for less than the price on the web page as well.

Going from 7NT to 804?

Going from 7NT to 804?

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