Which subwoofer for 5 x B&W FPM6

[Chross]

After agreeing the main speakers with my wife, the only compromise were the new FPM’s from B&W. But this means no good bass while playing music or film.
Normally the PV1 fits the range…… but my wife’s comment: “He’s so ugly” :P .
Therefore I’m searching a B&W sub that fits the FPM’s, I am thinking on the following subs in order of my choice:
1. ASW 800
2. ASW 750
3. ASW CDM
4. ASW 850 (Big !)
5. Other brand ops:

Anyone who got experience with these subs? Advice?

The room: 55 m²
Music 65%
Film 35%

[DrBoom]

Hi Chross,

I would've thought the PV-1 would have a high WAF, but it turns out it doesn't
The 850 is way overkill, not worth investing €3000 in a sub to go with FPM6's.
I'd go for an ASW700 or 750, or an ASW675 if you prefer that one's looks.
The ASW-CDM is out of production, and was replaced by the ASW-750 which costs €1800.
Other brands are possible too, REL for example.
A REL STorm would go nice with those FPM's too I think, costs about the same as the ASW-700.
Or you can get one of the 2 new REL subs, the STampede or the STrata V, both of which have a digital processor for setting crossover and volume.
The come with a remote as well, and have several selectable and configurable presets.

I'm sure someones going to yell "SVS !" but those aren't really available in Europe

[Chross]

Thanks again DrBoom, :T

Rel doesn't work with the D-class amplifiers? Can you here the difference between a Rel with 150W (Strata and Storm) and a B&W with 1000W???
There is a trending to move to D-Class.

Chross

[DrBoom]

B&W needs a lot of power, because they use small and closed subs.
A bass-reflex sub only requires half the power of a closed one (if they are identical in every other way).
Their woofers are really heavy, if you've ever seen a pic of one of their latest subs, they've got huge magnets.
Another thing with small cabinets, they don't allow for low extension so you need an equalizer to compensate for the rolloff, which again requires a ton of power.
REL uses larger cabinets, smaller drivers (nothing above 10") and different loading techniques.
Some of their subs are closed, others a simple bass-reflex, and their top of the line use the REL ARM (acoustic resistive matrix) which is a sort of transmission line.
REL isn't known for extremely high SPL's, but they are known for their great extension and superior integration with your other speakers.
I haven't listened to REL either yet, but if I was in the market for a sub I'd definitely check them out.

Although the REL will sound different from the B&W, it won't be due to the Class B vs Class D amplifier

[hanser]

MJAcoustics

There is an alternative to REL: MJAcoustics. I just ordered the Ref1 MkII for 1350 Euro, it should arrive next week. see: www.mjacoustics.co.uk

[Rags]

Having owned a few B&W subs (ASW675, 750 and 850) for your speakers I would definately recommend the 750. Its a superb sub and is a significant improvement on the ASW675. It one of the tightest, cleanest subwoofers I have heard without going into silly money. Loads of slam and punch and goes reasonably low too. All the anoraks who heard it at my place loved it to bits.

I agree with DrBoom the ASW850 may be overkill.

Oh and I definately wouldnt by REL ! I have demod a few subs now in my quest for bass nirvana and the ASW750 stomps all over something like a REL Q400E which costs a similar amount of money. Go demo and you will notice a huge difference. The MJ acoustics REF1 is a very good sub but again isnt in the ASW750's league.

[DrBoom]

Rags, did you audition the ASW800 as well on your quest ?
I'm just wondering how much difference there is between the ASW750 and the 800, seeing as they share the same size driver (but it looks a bit different), and the same amplifier.
The specs are also identical, but the 750 is only €1800 where the 850 costs €2500, quite a difference.
I'm sure the cabinet has a lot to do with this price, but is the difference that noticable ?
I don't think I'd buy an ASW800 though, I'd either get a 750 or an 850.
The €500 difference between the 800 and 850 gives quite an improvement I think, much larger driver and cabinet.

[Rags]

Rags, did you audition the ASW800 as well on your quest ?
I'm just wondering how much difference there is between the ASW750 and the 800, seeing as they share the same size driver (but it looks a bit different), and the same amplifier.
The specs are also identical, but the 750 is only €1800 where the 850 costs €2500, quite a difference.
I'm sure the cabinet has a lot to do with this price, but is the difference that noticable ?
I don't think I'd buy an ASW800 though, I'd either get a 750 or an 850.
The €500 difference between the 800 and 850 gives quite an improvement I think, much larger driver and cabinet.

No I didnt try the ASW800 as I wanted something at the next level and as you mention the 750 and the 800 share the same size driver and 1000w class D amp (actually its two 500rms amps) - although I am not certain I would expect the 800 to sound slightly better through cabinet improvements but it surely cannot be substantially better. The price you mention for the 850 is pretty good - I would have expected more of a difference between the 850 and the 750 - so in Belgium where does the 800 come in at price wise ?

If you do go for the 750 or the 850 expect a huge step up from your 650.

Other non B&W subs I have heard that I would recommend are the SVS PB2+ (a great sub but huge and ugly as hell), Velo DD series (nice with room eq but I preferred the 850) and KEF PSW5000 (downward firing).

[DrBoom]

Oops, small typo in my previous post. ops:
It's the ASW800 that costs €2500, the ASW850 is €3000.
The ASW750 costs €1800 like I mentioned.
For comparison, the Rel STadium which I was also considering costs €2500 (black) or €2700 (veneer), but I've read reviews of the ASW850 where the reviewer preferred that one over his own Rel STentor.
Where did you read that the 1000W amp is actually 2x 500W amp ?
First time I've heard that.

An SVS PB2+ is a bit overkill, not to mention too large.
I would prefer the ASW850, not just because it's the exact same colour and design as my other speakers but I think it' s a pretty terriffic sub (according to the reviews anyway), I've never heard it myself though, but I think I would be willing to buy this one without hearing it first.

[Rags]

I was speaking with B&W technical about the 850 and they mentioned the two amp thing.

BTW the 750/800/850 all have the same amps with a multivoltage power supply (all thats different from one country to another is the rating on the two fuses used and of course the power plug).

[Chross]

I was just reading the new Stereoplay (www.stereoplay.de), they have tested 11 subwoofers included the B&W ASW750. There were no REL or MJA in the test.
The ASW 750 quoted as a "ein verdammt feines Gerät" :T
Also in that test was de Velodyne DD10 (smallest from the DD series), seems to me that this equipment is more sophisticated (better?) but also more expensive if you want the same maximum output level.
The DD10 (its a smal sub 30cmx30cmx34cm) gives max output 103dB the ASW750 gives 111dB.
For cinemafreaks gives the B&W more response. For music you don't need that "OverBoom". :W

[Rags]

I feel like saying "I told you so" :T !The ASW750 is indeed a wonderful subwoofer and much better than B&W's previous offerings. Personally I would ignore the ASW800 and chose between the ASW750 or ASW850 depending on your budget.

Do you have a direct link to this review by the way ? what were the overall scores (etc) for the ASW75o and DD10 ?

[Chross]

Hi Rags,

Because it's the recent august 2004 Stereoplay, that you'll not find anything on the net.
But I can briefly tell the results:

Burmester S8 (9800€)................overall: 92/105.....Sound:64/75
Velodyne DD10 (2500€)..............overall: 83/105.....Sound:59/75
Canton Karat AS500 SC (1530€)..overall: 78/105.....Sound:58/75
MB Quart VS 1 SW (2600€).........overall: 76/105.....Sound:58/75
B&W ASW 750 (1800€)...........overall: 79/105.....Sound:60/75 :T
Dynaudio Sub 500 (1750€)..........overall: 81/105.....Sound:60/75
Mission e8as1 (1400€)................overall: 73/105.....Sound:56/75

[darrinturner]

Hello,

Has anyone got the FPM’s from B&W?

I was just looking at the FPM5 and was wondering how you like yours?

[Nolan B]

Hello,

Has anyone got the FPM’s from B&W?

I was just looking at the FPM5 and was wondering how you like yours?

i have FPMs and love them. They are great for both home theater and stereo. Mine are powered by a Rotel 1068 and RMB 1077. I went from Denon to Rotel and noticed a Huge change in what these speakers can do. I got some pictures posted in if you want to see what they look llike set up.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8229&page=23&pp=35

[Clepto]

For subs, especially with a more HT focus, consider:

Hsu, Velodyne, SVS...

Ported subs will give you much more bang for the buck, and if primarily for HT, they probably give more flavor than a sealed sub, which imo is better suited to music.

[Nick M]

If you have the money, the Digital Drive Velodynes are the best I've ever heard. Pretty tough to beat a sealed servo-controlled P-equalized sub for music. The bigger you buy the more clarity you will have at high SPLs (and the lower response you will get). And obviously they kill on HT too.

Bang for the buck, I vote SVS - but to my ears they require a 3rd party equalization system like the BFD or Velodyne SMS system. Best bang for the buck is the PB12-Plus/2. Not as transparent as the DD Velodynes, but pretty good. With HT or casual 2ch they are more than adequate. With a nice 2ch setup I'd pass on 'em.

I'm also a fan of dual subs. Personally I'd rather have dual DD12's than a single DD15. Or dual DD15's rather than a single DD18. Duals tend to tame room response, and hide any directionality you might experience with a single unit.

Just my $0.02. :T

[gross30]

QUOTE N MOSHER: I'm also a fan of dual subs. Personally I'd rather have dual DD12's than a single DD15. Or dual DD15's rather than a single DD18. Duals tend to tame room response, and hide any directionality you might experience with a single unit.

Great info. I use 2 DD 15's and I could not be hapier. They just fill the room, no problem. Just one click on the remote and it's HT or its Music. I don't think you can get any easier than that. It seems they handle my rock music or HT effortlessly. Very pleased w/the sound... :T

[Nick M]

I'm jealous! I hope to eventually get a pair of Digital Drives, but I may end up with 12's. I might fish the used market for 15's. Long way off right now though with all the other expensive projects I have going... :x

The Thiel Smart Subs are also really nice, but they cost even more than the Digital Drives, and frankly I still feel the Digital Drives are better. But Thiel does make a good sub (and associated adaptative room technology).

[gross30]

The only problem I had with the DD 15's purchase is that the wife took a bit of time getting over the fact that I spent 6k cad on subwoofers. Now everythings good, and she enjoys the HT and music and especialy Oblivion on x-box 360. (her favorite game). I did get a pretty good deal from my dealer for 2, as I should have.

[Nick M]

$6k Canadian isn't bad! In the US their MSRP is $3995/ea!