Any modifications to older N800 series? (Nautilus 804)

[rodH]

I am currently using the original N804 speakers. I know the easy answer to this question for many on these boards it to always just buy new ones. But sometimes there is a faction of DIYers and tweakers on forums that know how to make a good thing even better.

Anyway, since I can't justify selling my speakers for a couple Gs and buying new ones for $9k, is there any links to people out there that have smoothed out the tweeter just a little on the N804. I use to love it and never understood why some people thought it was too bright. But I have been messing with my system lately and there are times when it seems a little harsh and most of the time I am fine with it (ironically, when I listen to high quality recordings done on FLAC, SACD, DVD-A or Vinyl is when I am fine with the tweeters. And when I listen to more alternative rock, rock, or some other music, I don't like it as much, and I am assuming that a lot of that has to do with the poor recording).

At any rate, it would be cool if one could for a few hundred bucks to throw a tweeter from the 800 signature series speaker. I am sure I am not the only one who has thought of that, and if it were possible, it would be the thing for a lot of people to do. Is this a possibility and are there any other modifications that people have done to change the characteristic a bit without losing that fine detail at the upper end? (resistors or modifying crossovers?)

(Also, as I was typing this I just realized that I recently replaced one of my tweeters because my daughter thought it would be fun to try a summersalt in the room and broke the tweeter and housing, and I am sure that tweeter is not "broken in" just yet, so this might be a little bit of my issue with regards to a recent change in sound)

I do have a McIntosh pre-pro, I guess I could turn the treble down 1-2 db, but normally I don't like to mess with any type of EQ settings as I think it may not sound as "clear" or change the way the recording was supposed to sound.

TIA

currently using:
McIntosh MX132 Pre-Pro
McIntosh MC150 amp (mains)
Mcintosh MC7205 amp (center and surrounds)
B&W N804 Mains
B&W HTM2 Center

[wkhanna]

But I have been messing with my system lately........

could you elaborate on just what 'messing' means?
have you been swapping out equipment or cables, or other peripherals like room treatments?

...... when I listen to high quality recordings done on FLAC, SACD, DVD-A or Vinyl is when I am fine with the tweeters. And when I listen to more alternative rock, rock, or some other music, I don't like it as much, and I am assuming that a lot of that has to do with the poor recording.

you know, an accurate system will do that.
it is one of the trade-off's of the hobby.
much of my favorite music in not the best recorded music i have.
even so, i am often more emotionally involved in it than i am the better quality recordings i have.

it would be nice if we could have our cake & eat it, too.
just remember.....the system is our vehicle, the music is the destination.

[madmac]

just remember.....the system is our vehicle, the music is the destination.

Genius !!!

[rodH]

could you elaborate on just what 'messing' means?
have you been swapping out equipment or cables, or other peripherals like room treatments?




you know, an accurate system will do that.
it is one of the trade-off's of the hobby.
much of my favorite music in not the best recorded music i have.
even so, i am often more emotionally involved in it than i am the better quality recordings i have.

it would be nice if we could have our cake & eat it, too.
just remember.....the system is our vehicle, the music is the destination.

sorry, "messing" was referring to my playing a lot of music, different types of music, etc...

[fritzstenz]

Change the Caps and the resistors for quality ones. Mundorf caps.

[aarsoe]

I am sure you could upgrade parts of your crossover and get improved sound but what would give you the biggest boost is adding a sub. The bigger the sub the better - as long as it is so fast that it can keep up with your main speakers.
You will not believe the boost that will give you. Especially if you are lacking in the rock area.
Take a full line signal output from your preamp. No need to cut off digitally, something that really kills the sound in my opinion.
Have always been taught that subs and stereo is not a good mix but only wished I did this a long time ago. Really transformed my setup.

[drsiebling]

I started noticing some of the same things you've mentioned on my 805S speakers. They somehow had started to sound a bit tiring to listen to and i wasn't really sure what the issue was. So, I ran some test tones through each individual speaker a few months ago and started noticing a very mild distortion in my right 805. I was able to identify something wasn't kosher with the kevlar woofer - most likely a voice coil or suspension issue. It was extremely subtle, but definitely made an impact. So, I ordered a replacement driver from the online B&W parts store for roughly $200 and a few days later my problems were solved. The speakers came to life again and that harshness was gone. Even after physically inspecting the old driver, I couldn't identify anything wrong with it. I'm not throwing tons of wattage at these particular speakers, so i have no idea how this happened. For now, I'm chalking it up to their age. Regardless, problem solved.

As for retrofitting a Signature tweeter or anything like that, I think you'll find that the crossovers in your nautilus speakers wouldn't be ideal for doing that. It also looks like the assembly attaches in a markedly different way from the Nautilus to the Signature. The online B&W parts store has schematics available, so you could always do some research there to see if it was doable. I suppose you could also just replace the crossovers as well, but then you're spending some serious money on something that would probably not yield much in the way of results.

One thing I've added to my system is a passive low pass filter. This sits in the audio chain between my preamp and my amp and allows me to strip the frequencies below 60 hz out of the mix and to send them directly to my subs, while the amp never sends them to the main speakers. This frees up the amp from having to handle the lower part of the frequency spectrum and keeps the speakers free to only handle the frequency range that they are capable of handling.

[wkhanna]

Hi Ben!

great & informative post!
also, great to see you posting as so many of us from the earlier days do not seem to be around much.

can you give some more specific information on your low pass filter?

[TomScrut]

Hi Ben!

great & informative post!
also, great to see you posting as so many of us from the earlier days do not seem to be around much.

can you give some more specific information on your low pass filter?

Yes I too would be interested in knowing about the filter!

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[aarsoe]

Going back to your original complaint about the tweeter sound. Let me try to add a couple of comments besides my original one about adding a sub. I still stand by that.
Replacing your tweeter tone from your original one to, as you suggest, one from the 800 model would be outrageously expensive so you would be better of trying to find a used set.
The only relatively affordable thing you could do would be to get hold of the diagram for your speaker and then by-pass the cap that is connected in parallel mode across the tweeter with a cap of the best possible quality that you can afford.
That should give you a noticeable lift in the sound quality. Just remember to make it reversible so you can remove it again once you decide to move on and sell your speakers.
Now remember that caps can literally cost thousands of dollars/pounds/euros. And many being sold on e-bay are fake ones. So be carefully when choosing we're to buy them.

[drsiebling]

Hi Ben!

great & informative post!
also, great to see you posting as so many of us from the earlier days do not seem to be around much.

can you give some more specific information on your low pass filter?

Glad to be back on the forums!

The passive line filter that I've been using was built by M&K:

http://www.tmraudio.com/product/tmr-997

since it's passive (not powered in any way) it doesn't introduce any noise into the system. It's really pretty simple: I set the treble dial to the maximum setting - that keeps me from filtering out anything above 1k. I then dial the bass side dial down, with music playing, until my subs are perfectly blended in with the main speakers. I alternate between using a relatively high powered McIntosh 2 channel amp and a pair of restored vintage low-wattage tube amps. This M&K filter allows me to "tune" the entire system to perform optimally based on the amp I'm using. The initial thought was that there was no point in having either amp do the hard work of amplifying anything below what the mains could handle, while sparing the speakers of overextending while trying to play back anything below what they could handle... I'm happy to say that this has proven to work quite well within my system. Of course, if you were using any kind of surround processor in your sustem, this would be about the same as setting your mains as "small" speakers. I just have a bit more control in where I set the filters, though, I'm sure plenty of pre/pros can do it even more precisely than what is possible using this very analog solution....