N800 Signature or 802D... place your bet

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  • ritmick
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2005
    • 9

    N800 Signature or 802D... place your bet

    Hi,

    First of all...
    THANK GOD i'm not the only one who's heart start beating faster when the word 'audio' is mentioned.... but my heart needs some rest. Since a while my sleep is disturbed by one question.

    Should I choose the new B&W 802D or the Nautilus 800 Signature.

    I can get both about the same price and i'm willing to give it some good gear.
    I know people are very very fond of the new 802D. And sure. I believe the 802D is a great speaker with some new inventions. But i find it hard to believe that they are THAT great or even greater than the former flag-ship.

    I'm tending to think the media are cooperating with b&w's marketing (look at those dozens of advertisements) of their new and more costly 800-line. New inventions do not always carry weight in sound, but they do in marketing. If Focals Utopia Be use high-frequent beryllium, they should come up with something high-frequent that's even better.

    Does somebody experienced the the difference between the 802D and the N800. I'm very interested in your thoughts.

    Regards,
    and may some sleep come to us

    PS. I attached some pictures.... for those who think the N800 are ugly. But feel free to argue
    Attached Files
    Last edited by ritmick; 20 September 2005, 15:28 Tuesday.
  • Andrew M Ward
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2005
    • 717

    #2
    Originally posted by ritmick
    Hi,

    First of all...
    THANK GOD i'm not the only one who's heart start beating faster when the word 'audio' is mentioned.... but my heart needs some rest. Since a while my sleep is disturbed by (...no this time it's not my girlfriend) by one question.

    Should I choose the new B&W 802D or the Nautilus 800 Signature.

    I can get both about the same price and i'm willing to give it some good gear.
    I know. Some will say you should go for diamond clear definition (high) others put their money on cutting edge dynamics (bass).

    Both mostly relevant to me. Does somebody experienced the the difference between the 802D and the N800. I'm very interested in your thoughts.

    Regards,
    and may some sleep come to us

    I think (depending on finish color) the N800 can look cooler, but in my comparisons the 802D sounds better.

    I think the relationship between the tweeter and the Mid-driver is vastly improved in the new speaker and I don't miss the bass, because the new Rohacell drivers are faster and cleaner. 100% win win on the 802D

    802D all the way!

    Just my 2 cents

    Comment

    • ritmick
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2005
      • 9

      #3
      Goodevening Andrew,

      I auditioned the 802D on a Mark Levinson 383 and found the sound not spectacular, a little normal. The N802 sounded analytical, focused and balanced. At high sound pr levels the N802 still sounded at ease with the same kind of characteristics found at lower sp-levels.
      This was also what i expected from, but didn't found in, the 802D. The dealer said i was right, this was because the 802D tended to be more musical. Personally I think this was due to the amp. Next friday i will listen to them driven by the Classe2200/500 combo.

      Did you listen to the N802?
      Which amplifier do you use/ recommend to play with the 802D?

      Cheers & Good night!

      Comment

      • Andrew M Ward
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2005
        • 717

        #4
        Originally posted by ritmick
        Goodevening Andrew,

        I auditioned the 802D on a Mark Levinson 383 and found the sound not spectacular, a little normal. The N802 sounded analytical, focused and balanced. At high sound pr levels the N802 still sounded at ease with the same kind of characteristics found at lower sp-levels.
        This was also what i expected from, but didn't found in, the 802D. The dealer said i was right, this was because the 802D tended to be more musical. Personally I think this was due to the amp. Next friday i will listen to them driven by the Classe2200/500 combo.

        Did you listen to the N802?
        Which amplifier do you use/ recommend to play with the 802D?

        Cheers & Good night!

        The Levinson No.383 is an integrated amp... Probably not your best bet to drive any 802 or larger. The No.383 is 150 watts

        I was listening to Classe' CAM-400's

        Comment

        • sikoniko
          Super Senior Member
          • Aug 2003
          • 2299

          #5
          I know I will catch heat for this, but I think the 800 is ugly and too darn big...

          With that being said, I like the 802D better because I felt that it offered a great sound and had better aesthetic appeal.
          I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

          Comment

          • Pez
            Senior Member
            • May 2004
            • 472

            #6
            Originally posted by sikoniko
            With that being said, I like the 802D better because I felt that it offered a great sound and had better aesthetic appeal.
            I fully agree. Sound should be first but looks are fairly important as well (to some anyways). I think the 802D is one of the best looking speakers I have ever seen.

            Comment

            • RebelMan
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Mar 2005
              • 3139

              #7
              Originally posted by sikoniko
              I know I will catch heat for this, but I think the 800 is ugly and too darn big...
              I think the 800 is perfectly balanced and proportional. I agree it is big and not really domestically suited but I do not find it at all ugly. However, I would have preferred a contoured plinth to match the cabinet similar to what you find on the 802. I believe the 801 is the big, ugly step-sister! :lol:

              I would put my money on the 802D. :T
              "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

              Comment

              • ritmick
                Junior Member
                • Sep 2005
                • 9

                #8
                Hi Rebelman, Pez, Sikonokio,

                I don't think you can say the 800 are ugly (see attached pics). I love both speakers at first sight. But if that counts for my ears I question. Sometimes I think the media is not objective (see my added text) and cooperates with b&w to create a Diamond hype. Let me hear you laugh at my thoughts.... :rofl:

                btw.. thanks for you opinions

                Comment

                • ritmick
                  Junior Member
                  • Sep 2005
                  • 9

                  #9
                  Goodevening Andrew,

                  I read you writing somewhere in this forum that the bass driver is fast and clean so that was the reason why the bass seemed to be disappearing. If the bass is so clean that it becomes hard to notice, most people add a sub. Don't you think a bass should be noticed easily?

                  Regards

                  Comment

                  • sikoniko
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 2299

                    #10
                    One thing to keep in mind about the sigs also, you will need to get the SHTM1 (which may be hard to find) to match is and have more power than the 802D's will require, so there is a definate slippery slope...
                    I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                    Comment

                    • Rolex
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 386

                      #11
                      Andrew, the 383 is only 100 watts of power.

                      Not even scratching the surface of what the 802D needs to be driven with.

                      Comment

                      • Andrew M Ward
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2005
                        • 717

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ritmick
                        Goodevening Andrew,

                        I read you writing somewhere in this forum that the bass driver is fast and clean so that was the reason why the bass seemed to be disappearing. If the bass is so clean that it becomes hard to notice, most people add a sub. Don't you think a bass should be noticed easily?

                        Regards
                        This is going to come across as pompous and arrogant... but here goes.

                        it is not uncommon to improve the distortion levels on bass responces and have listeners identify the equally measured (but with lower distorion) as less bass.

                        Bass is tricky business, if you clean it up it can appear to go away...

                        however after time and exposure to quality low distortion bass responce you can never go back.

                        Just my 2 cents

                        Comment

                        • Ash
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 191

                          #13
                          Hi ritmick,

                          This is a thread I posted sometime back, which has a debate relating to the same topic Sig800 vs. 802D, hope it helps



                          Regards
                          Ash

                          Comment

                          • ritmick
                            Junior Member
                            • Sep 2005
                            • 9

                            #14
                            Hello Ash,

                            Thanks for the link. You said that you would test the new series more to understand the difference between the N800S and the 802D.
                            I'm curious about you experiences.

                            PS. Did you already upgrade your system with one of these babies?

                            Cheers

                            Comment

                            • martino
                              Member
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 92

                              #15
                              God has nothing to do with it!

                              Originally posted by ritmick
                              Hi,

                              First of all...
                              THANK GOD i'm not the only one who's heart start beating faster when the word 'audio' is mentioned.... but my heart needs some rest. Since a while my sleep is disturbed by one question.

                              Should I choose the new B&W 802D or the Nautilus 800 Signature.

                              I can get both about the same price and i'm willing to give it some good gear.
                              I know people are very very fond of the new 802D. And sure. I believe the 802D is a great speaker with some new inventions. But i find it hard to believe that they are THAT great or even greater than the former flag-ship.

                              I'm tending to think the media are cooperating with b&w's marketing (look at those dozens of advertisements) of their new and more costly 800-line. New inventions do not always carry weight in sound, but they do in marketing. If Focals Utopia Be use high-frequent beryllium, they should come up with something high-frequent that's even better.

                              Does somebody experienced the the difference between the 802D and the N800. I'm very interested in your thoughts.

                              Regards,
                              and may some sleep come to us

                              PS. I attached some pictures.... for those who think the N800 are ugly. But feel free to argue
                              nice set up however!!!

                              Comment

                              • xk8boy
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2005
                                • 104

                                #16
                                ritmick, technology will come and go but a great speaker dont become a bad speaker because there's a new model out. Dont forget that one day even the beloved 802D will be replaced.

                                As to which to buy, well i kinda agree with sikoniko the 800 are big speakers. this means you're going to need the right environment to place them. if you're got a large space to use, then by all mean go with the 800. if you got a medium to smallish room then the 802D may be better suited.

                                Comment

                                • gerardhn
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jun 2005
                                  • 352

                                  #17
                                  Ritmick

                                  Which gear are you using?
                                  Loooks good!

                                  Comment

                                  • Ash
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Dec 2004
                                    • 191

                                    #18
                                    Hi ritmick,

                                    I'm afraid that my testing of those speakers were limited to that day. I decided to stick with my current speakers and fight the urge to upgrade.

                                    Good luck

                                    Comment

                                    • misterdoggy
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • May 2005
                                      • 1418

                                      #19
                                      I've read several reviews in Hifi Choice and Haute Fidelite where they considered the 802D superior to the older N800. Completely new design. Many changes and improvements.

                                      If you you want to compare, the comparison is not N800 against the 802D, but the 800D against the 802D. Now we're talkin.

                                      Comment

                                      • PavelL
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Sep 2005
                                        • 204

                                        #20
                                        What is it with you people? To me it's pretty obvious - a speaker that cost 8500$ in 1999 should become a bit more expensive in 2005. With inflation and a weak dollar... So B&W did not just raise the picetag - they justified it by making minor changes to an almost "perfect speaker" design. Before you even think of an "upgrade", ask yourself a simple question - what is it that you do not like about your current speaker? What faults do you find with Nautilus 802? Any? Some? I consider myself LUCKY to have bought a Naut 802 /second hand in mint condition for only 3500$/ Now's the time to BUY N802s or, say, Sig. 800. And the looks are stunning!!!

                                        Comment

                                        • lvhung
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jun 2005
                                          • 301

                                          #21
                                          Hi Mr from Holland,
                                          Your set-up makes me scared

                                          Comment

                                          • Andrew M Ward
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Apr 2005
                                            • 717

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                            I've read several reviews in Hifi Choice and Haute Fidelite where they considered the 802D superior to the older N800. Completely new design. Many changes and improvements.

                                            If you you want to compare, the comparison is not N800 against the 802D, but the 800D against the 802D. Now we're talkin.

                                            Agreed!

                                            The 802D at $12K U.S. is enough to make any other high-end speaker mfg. blanch... including B&W looking back at N800 for $16K U.S.

                                            With the right power and a good room it's rediculous what the 802D can do!

                                            just more 2 cents
                                            Andrew M Ward

                                            Comment

                                            • ritmick
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Sep 2005
                                              • 9

                                              #23
                                              I heard the 802D on the Classe CP600/CA2200 combination and i didn't felt the WHOW-factor, which i felt on the N802. They stood in a large listening room, Cardas crosslink cables and the ML390S cd-player.
                                              Sure the highs and mids were there, but in comparison with the old N802 on the same set, i found lack of control and balance.

                                              What's wrong with me.... or are we all just fooled by the dozens of advertisements and positive reviews of people who earn their money with saying Diamonds are for ever.

                                              Comment

                                              • PavelL
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Sep 2005
                                                • 204

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by ritmick
                                                .

                                                What's wrong with me.... or are we all just fooled by the dozens of advertisements and positive reviews of people who earn their money with saying Diamonds are for ever.
                                                Good for you! Nothing is wrong with you. But there IS something wrong with all those folks who suddenly find their "reference" systems poor. Just because there is another model out there. And they will pay ANY amount that a manufacturer feels like taking from them. Examples are numerous. Could be cables, could be Classe amps. :lol:
                                                Last edited by PavelL; 20 January 2006, 09:57 Friday.

                                                Comment

                                                • hillen
                                                  Junior Member
                                                  • Nov 2004
                                                  • 22

                                                  #25
                                                  802D in comparison with N800 ( review Paul messenger )

                                                  October 1, 2005

                                                  B&W 802D Loudspeakers

                                                  Based in the seaside resort town of Worthing in West Sussex, on the south coast of England, Bowers & Wilkins has grown, through its 40-year history, into the world’s largest maker of specialist hi-fi loudspeakers. Besides a brand-new factory, a large and well-equipped research facility operates as a separate unit a few miles away. The latter is undoubtedly a major reason for the success of the entire operation.

                                                  B&W effectively redefined upmarket loudspeakers when it launched the Nautilus 800 series back in 1998. Seven years on, the company has decided it’s time to revamp its 800 line. But do the new models have genuine new substance, or is this just a headline-grabbing marketing exercise, change for the sake of change?

                                                  The new 800 models

                                                  The new 800 models don’t look all that different from their predecessors, but, as was pointed out at the launch, today’s Porsche 911 doesn’t look much different from the succession of versions the company has made going all the way back to the 1960s. B&W saw no sense in substantially changing the appearance of designs that were originally conceived on the principle of form follows function -- indeed, it would be hard to detect the changes from across a crowded room. Even a side-by-side comparison would prove tricky, even though, according to B&W, something like 90% of each new speaker’s ingredients have been changed.

                                                  Each of the earlier Nautilus 800 models has a direct equivalent in the new range, but B&W has dropped "Nautilus" from the name and added some new, home-theater models. There are now seven different 800 speakers that are sold in pairs, alongside a number of center, surround, and subwoofer models. The 802D is two rungs below the new top model, the 800D, and one below the 801D. All three are three-ways, with essentially the same midrange and treble arrangements, and differ mainly in the way the bass is delivered: two 10" woofers with massive magnets drive the 800D, the 801D has a single 15" cone, and the 802D has two 8" woofers, which should be ample for most normal rooms. At $12,000 USD per pair, the 802D is also considerably less expensive than the others, which is a nice bonus.

                                                  The 802D replaces the Nautilus 802 and costs about 25% more. That’s because the D in the model number stands for diamond, the very costly, difficult-to-work material used for this speaker’s dome tweeter. (Only the top four of the seven new 800 models sold as stereo pairs carry the D suffix; the bottom three models, smaller and suffixed S, have aluminum-dome tweeters and so are a lot less expensive.)

                                                  But while the Ds are the élite, don’t write off the S models. I recently tried the little stand-mount 805S, and it’s a honey. I compared it to its ancestor, the Nautilus 805, and to its immediate predecessor, the superior Signature 805; it was comfortably better than both, even without the diamond dome.

                                                  That aside is not entirely irrelevant. B&W has introduced two key changes in the way all of its tweeters, both S and D, operate, that are arguably of equal importance in upgrading the new speakers’ sounds beyond those of their Nautilus predecessors. The tweeter domes now have an improved surround/suspension system that both improves control and lowers the fundamental resonance. That in turn allows the tweeters to be fed by a gently sloped first-order crossover network consisting of just a single capacitor (plus level-adjusting resistor). Such simplicity improves the sound quality per se, and permits the use of a very costly, high-quality capacitor made by German supplier Mundorf.

                                                  Then there’s that dome of synthetic diamond. It’s "grown" using a technique called vacuum deposition, after which it must be formed and fettled into the right shape for creating the tweeter itself. It’s not much to look at. There’s no multihued sparkle, or even a nice shine to impress friends and neighbors: instead, a rather dull, matte-gray surface lurks beneath a magnetically affixed cover of protective mesh. On my samples these covers were removable, though I gather B&W is considering fixing them permanently in place. The diamond diaphragm is plenty strong enough to withstand heavy regular use for years on end, but poke it with a finger and it could shatter, leaving the perpetrator to face a $1200 replacement fee. I left my covers on for the duration.

                                                  Diamond is the hardest material known to man, with the best stiffness/density ratio. This makes it good for tweeter domes, as it pushes the dome’s breakup resonance up to the highest possible frequency, far beyond the limit of human hearing, generally accepted as around 20kHz. According to B&W, the diamond dome’s ultimate resonance is 74kHz, more than an octave above the 29kHz recorded for the aluminum equivalent, and its ultrasonic behavior is smoother too, exhibiting superior self-damping.

                                                  The 802D continues B&W’s long tradition of externally mounted tweeters. This one occupies its own tube-loaded nacelle atop the main enclosure. The nacelle is only slightly larger in diameter than the dome itself, which ensures that the dome’s output is distributed and dispersed as widely as possible. The tweeter’s neodymium magnet is very compact, leaving the area behind the dome relatively free from obstructions and allowing the sound radiated from here to be absorbed by a long transmission-line tube. The whole tweeter assembly is encased in a substantial alloy tube, finished in high-gloss black and mounted via a lossy rubber gasket that mechanically isolates it from the rest of the speaker.

                                                  While that diamond tweeter may be its marketing highlight, this interesting and complex design offers plenty more to talk about. Overall, the 802D looks like the Nautilus 802, but the family resemblance is strongest in the massive, teardrop-shaped midrange enclosure, which sits atop the bass cabinet and supports the tweeter tube. Crafted of a mineral-resin composite called Marlan, the extremely heavy, acoustically inert midrange cabinet (finished, like the tweeter nacelle, in high-gloss black) is mounted via a mechanical decoupling gasket. It houses one of B&W’s unique "surroundless" midrange drivers, this one based on a skeletal 6" (150mm) cast chassis and with a woven-Kevlar-in-polymer cone of large diameter (5.5" or 140mm).

                                                  Most loudspeaker designers assign the midrange duties to drivers that are fundamentally similar to that speaker’s bass drivers -- and in a two-way speaker, of course, the same driver handles bass and midrange. These drive-units usually connect the cone edge to the driver frame with some form of roll surround, usually made of synthetic rubber, and this fulfills several distinct functions: it supports the cone and keeps it centered while still allowing the cone to move to and fro with sufficient excursion to reproduce bass frequencies, and it terminates the cone edge in such a way as to absorb at least some of the higher-frequency vibrations that are generated by the voice coil and travel out from the center of the cone to the edge. Because B&W’s Fixed Suspension Transducer (FST) driver is used only for the midrange, it doesn’t need to undergo significant excursion, so its surround can be specifically tailored to the termination and absorption of midrange frequencies. The cone is no longer physically attached to a surround here, but instead butts up against a thick rubber gasket. This FST driver originally appeared in the Nautilus 800 models, but its magnetic motor, in particular, has since undergone steady development and improvement.

                                                  Supporting the midrange enclosure in turn is the 802D’s bass enclosure, which also closely resembles that of the Nautilus 802. It is formed from a single piece of plywood more than an inch thick, and while its sides are parallel and at right angles to the front baffle, the rear describes a single continuous curve, considerably improving the stiffness of the whole and helping to disperse reflections and standing waves. These characteristics are further enhanced by B&W’s patented Matrix internal stiffening system: a perforated, honeycomb-like wooden structure that reinforces the cabinet in every direction.

                                                  The bass is delivered by two 8" cones operating in parallel, together with port loading through a double-flared Flowport set into the bottom of the enclosure. The two woofer diaphragms are made of a new material, Rohacell. According to B&W, Rohacell is "a light, rigid foam which, together with outer skins of carbon fiber, forms a sandwich construction of great stiffness and light weight." Besides ensuring high structural integrity, the relatively thick diaphragms help reduce the escape of unwanted internal box colorations.

                                                  To keep the port unobstructed and to allow the bass output to travel beneath as well as around the sides of the enclosure, the wood-finished bass cabinet is mounted on a substantial plinth of cast alloy that raises it some 7" above the floor. The plinth is an elegant and functional solution that also provides secure mounting for B&W’s wickedly sharp floor spikes, as well as housing the crossover network and terminals, keeping them well clear of the vibrations and magnetic fields generated by the bass enclosure.

                                                  If that rundown of the basic ingredients seems unusually detailed and exhaustive, it merely reflects the exceptionally painstaking attention to detail that has been applied to every aspect of this formidable loudspeaker. Add in the fact that the 802D weighs a substantial 176 pounds, and its equally substantial price seems well justified by the engineering.

                                                  Measurements

                                                  I subjected the B&W 802D to my usual set of basic measurements. I used a farfield in-room technique to measure a sensitivity of around 91dB, a generous figure that’s actually a shade higher than the 90dB claimed by B&W. This already good result is even more impressive in view of the 802D’s exceptional bass extension, which registered around 0dB at 20Hz in-room -- thanks in no small part to a very low port tuning frequency of about 23Hz. However, it was rather compromised by a load that will demand plenty of current from the partnering amplifier. B&W specifies the 802D’s impedance as "8 ohms nominal," which is positively disingenuous alongside the admission that the speaker’s minimum impedance is 3.5 ohms. According to my measurements, the impedance falls to around 3 ohms in the power-hungry midbass region, indicating that the 802D’s nominal impedance is actually around 4 ohms. This will pose no problems for any decent solid-state amplifier, but might give unpredictable results with low-powered, single-ended tube amps -- or, indeed, output-transformerless (OTL) tube amps.

                                                  These basic measurements might fall a little short of perfection, but they’re nonetheless very impressive.

                                                  Sound

                                                  The 802D is undoubtedly intended for free-space siting, but even in my reasonably large room (14’ x 18’ x 8.5’), the low bass (20-60Hz) was a little too strong. The farfield in-room measurements show a tonal balance with a slightly three-humped character: heavy in the low bass, the lower midband a little lean, and the upper mids slightly projected. There was also an obvious if shallow depression through the "presence" region, followed by some recovery as the tweeter took over above 4kHz. Although these ups and downs will impose a degree of character on the sound, the trends are essentially smooth, and the overall balance holds within modest overall limits.

                                                  The 802D sounded spectacularly good. Though I never got to try the original Nautilus 802, I did spend quality time with both the Nautilus 801 and 800, and found the latter particularly impressive, albeit at a price. The 802D comfortably outperformed the Nautilus 800 in virtually every respect, despite costing considerably less. No doubt the new 800D sounds better still, but the 802D probably represents the better overall value for money in the new range.

                                                  I did get the chance to compare the 802D to the less costly 803D. The models share the same midrange and treble drivers, but the 803D lacks the separate Marlan head, its FST mid driver mounted in the conventional wooden cabinet. The more traditional-looking 803D was no match for its bigger brother in terms of midrange expression, transparency, and dynamic range.

                                                  Dynamic range was one of the 802D’s most notable strengths, and the improvements over its predecessors in cleanness and clarity through the bass region were obvious. If the low bass was a little too strong, I perceived this only as a rather satisfying extra weight and scale; the 802D showed no tendency to supply unwanted thump or to thicken sonic textures.

                                                  The 802D served music with unusually complex bass particularly well; for example, Skuli Sverrisson’s highly complex and rapid programmed percussion on "My Compensation," from Laurie Anderson’s beautifully recorded Life on a String [CD, Nonesuch 7559-79539-2]. On a lesser speaker this percussion tends to blur and become confused, but the 802D’s outstanding start/stop abilities beautifully sorted out the polyrhythmic complexities; the whole track consequently made more sense.

                                                  What of that costly diamond tweeter? A tweeter fills a vital role in supplying nearly all of the delicate fine detail and harmonic structure, but it shouldn’t draw attention to itself. In fact, you shouldn’t really "hear" a tweeter at all. That, essentially, was the strength of the 802D’s diamond dome. By effectively banishing resonances to well beyond the audioband, the 802D sounded unusually clean and free from any sizzle or hash, and actually made unwanted noise, such as background FM hiss or LP surface noise, sound very discreet, while applause sounded very realistic. No less important, the tweeter integrated beautifully with the midrange driver, temporally speaking -- on vocal recordings, sibilants and consonants sounded beautifully natural and in the proper order. And while the 802D made no attempt to disguise the unpleasantness of bright and aggressive recordings, such as the Chemical Brothers’ recent Push the Button [CD, Freestyle Dust 5 63303 2], the diamond tweeter did an excellent job of sorting out and portraying the delicate violin and cymbal textures and harmonic subtleties on tracks such as "Neighborhood #4 (7 Kettles)," from Arcade Fire’s Funeral [CD, Rough Trade 5 98219 2].

                                                  Although one can argue that the qualitative differences between the three different diaphragm materials -- diamond, Kevlar, and Rohacell -- might be audible, and that the complexities of any three-way design will also tend to mitigate against overall sonic coherence, I heard little sign of that from the 802D. While the speaker was perhaps not the last word in transparency, its timing was thoroughly impressive throughout, with very little evidence of boxiness or time smear, and transients sounded precise and accurate.

                                                  The wide dispersion of the separate mid and treble sections had significant implications for the way the 802D interacted with the listening room. A speaker such as the 802D will "read" and incorporate the room much more than more directional designs, such as horn or panel speakers, and while this will tend to somewhat dilute the precision of the stereo image, the fact that the ratio of reflected to direct sound is relatively high also tends to give a greater impression of bringing the musicians into the listening room. This is not a criticism of the imaging capabilities of the 802Ds, which showed fine focus and precision, but merely an observation about room interactions; the choice between these two approaches is ultimately a matter of personal preference.

                                                  An acid test of any loudspeaker lies in how well it discriminates between the different types of material it is fed, and the 802D was particularly effective at highlighting the different characters of various hi-fi media and the underlying quality of individual recordings and broadcasts. Vinyl’s innate superiority was obvious, especially with examples of the genre that sound sensationally good, while previously obscure lyrics were made clear and intelligible. The inherent sweetness of FM broadcasts was also evident when listening to the BBC’s better-quality transmissions. The 802D was able to make even the most unfamiliar and difficult material, such as contemporary classical and modern jazz, sound more interesting.

                                                  While the 802D’s slight loss of presence energy was audible, making voices sound a little recessed, it didn’t seem to interfere at all with intelligibility, probably because the speaker’s overall timing was so good. And this did have the advantage of helping the speaker avoid sounding aggressive even while exploring its prodigious reserves of headroom.

                                                  Conclusion

                                                  The B&W 802D might look like its predecessor, the Nautilus 802, but it is a substantial improvement in all-around sonic performance. The 802D delivers massive bass, vivid dynamic expression, tight timing, a fine freedom from boxiness, and an impressively wide dynamic range. B&W’s diamond tweeter is noteworthy for simply getting on and doing its job without in any way drawing attention to itself, and the whole thing comes together with unusually fine coherence for a necessarily complex three-way loudspeaker.

                                                  …Paul Messenger
                                                  paulm@ultraaudio.com

                                                  Comment

                                                  • PavelL
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Sep 2005
                                                    • 204

                                                    #26
                                                    WOW! What a review! The guy never heard Naut. 802 - but concludes that 802D is a SUBSTANTIAL sonic improvement all-around. Way to go! Great sonic memory!!! What? No more side by side tests? Using the same material?
                                                    Last edited by PavelL; 20 January 2006, 09:56 Friday.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Race Car Driver
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 1537

                                                      #27
                                                      Never hearing or seeing either in person.
                                                      Just based off my wants, id take the N800 in a heartbeat!

                                                      But to drop that kinda coin, id have to hear them.
                                                      B&W

                                                      Comment

                                                      • aphexist
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2004
                                                        • 158

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by PavelL
                                                        WOW! What a review! The guy never heard Naut. 802 - but concludes that 802D is a SUBSTANTIAL sonic improvement all-around. Way to go! Great sonic memory!!! What? No more side by side tests? Using the same material?
                                                        B&W is becoming the new Bose.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Rolex
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Mar 2005
                                                          • 386

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by aphexist
                                                          B&W is becoming the new Bose.
                                                          People that believe this don't how B&W as a company operates.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • JKalman
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Nov 2005
                                                            • 708

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by misterdoggy
                                                            I've read several reviews in Hifi Choice and Haute Fidelite where they considered the 802D superior to the older N800. Completely new design. Many changes and improvements.
                                                            Absolute Sound review article also said the 802D is better than the N800 I believe.

                                                            One of my dealers (my ex-dealer now) had a demo pair of N800s they were selling which I listened to at the time when I demoed the 802Ds. I felt there was no comparison. The 802D sounded better to me, so I payed the extra cash for them instead of buying the demo N800s. The clarity, lack of sibilance, and lack of brightness usually associated with B&W speakers were very noticeable in comparison. Both were being played through Bryston amps if I remember correctly, and one was using the Bryston SP1.7 in bypass mode and the other was using a Lexicon MC-12 in bypass mode I believe.
                                                            Last edited by Aussie Geoff; 27 January 2006, 01:13 Friday.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • JKalman
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Nov 2005
                                                              • 708

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by ritmick
                                                              I heard the 802D on the Classe CP600/CA2200 combination and i didn't felt the WHOW-factor, which i felt on the N802. They stood in a large listening room, Cardas crosslink cables and the ML390S cd-player.
                                                              Sure the highs and mids were there, but in comparison with the old N802 on the same set, i found lack of control and balance.

                                                              What's wrong with me.... or are we all just fooled by the dozens of advertisements and positive reviews of people who earn their money with saying Diamonds are for ever.
                                                              Perhaps there is something wrong with you. I did my demoing before I read any reviews on the diamond speakers, or really any speakers. I started buying magazines and reading reviews after testing my initial purchases. I was definitely happy to see that the reviewers agreed with my perception of things. Maybe you need to test both speakers on the same equipment, with equal break in times, etc. For me the difference was very noticeable.

                                                              I have to laugh a little that you didn't notice "control" or "balance" because those are two things I find to be exceptional on the 802Ds, whereas the N800s seemed loose in comparison. Though perhaps your definition of these things might not be the same as mine. Balance problems are most likely not an issue with the speaker itself but with the rooms acoustics. I can't say i'm certain what you mean by control, for me I assume it to mean "authority". To me the N800s seemed faded and less on top of the sources being played in comparison to the 802Ds, at least with the discs I brought in to listen to at the time.

                                                              Speaker enjoyment is also a highly subjective choice. Can you be more explicit about what you mean? IMO it seems you are just trying to intentionally cause problems with such generalized statements... Especially when you make silly statements like the one below.

                                                              Originally posted by ritmick
                                                              What's wrong with me.... or are we all just fooled by the dozens of advertisements and positive reviews of people who earn their money with saying Diamonds are for ever.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • JKalman
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Nov 2005
                                                                • 708

                                                                #32
                                                                I get the feeling someone else might be joining PavelL on my ignore list... :twisted:

                                                                Comment

                                                                • thaile88
                                                                  Junior Member
                                                                  • May 2008
                                                                  • 15

                                                                  #33
                                                                  802D on a Mark Levinson 383

                                                                  That is not very good at all. Mark Levinson 383 is just 100W per channel. That is very terrible choice to drive the 802d.

                                                                  Choose a better Power Amp with about 400W per channel and then make your choice again. :T

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • misterdoggy
                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                    • May 2005
                                                                    • 1418

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by ritmick
                                                                    I heard the 802D on the Classe CP600/CA2200 combination and i didn't felt the WHOW-factor, which i felt on the N802. They stood in a large listening room, Cardas crosslink cables and the ML390S cd-player.
                                                                    Sure the highs and mids were there, but in comparison with the old N802 on the same set, i found lack of control and balance.

                                                                    What's wrong with me.... or are we all just fooled by the dozens of advertisements and positive reviews of people who earn their money with saying Diamonds are for ever.

                                                                    ritmick

                                                                    You are impressed by the size perhaps. Bigger isn't always better.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • style
                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                      • Feb 2006
                                                                      • 1562

                                                                      #35
                                                                      B&W

                                                                      misterdoggy wrote:
                                                                      ritmick

                                                                      You are impressed by the size perhaps. Bigger isn't always better.

                                                                      and I say more:

                                                                      more expensive isn't alway better!!!


                                                                      GO with the 802D. No words.


                                                                      Greetings from Switzerland
                                                                      Omar

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • misterdoggy
                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                        • May 2005
                                                                        • 1418

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Omar

                                                                        did you get my PM ?

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • thaile88
                                                                          Junior Member
                                                                          • May 2008
                                                                          • 15

                                                                          #37
                                                                          how about the soundstage

                                                                          Of course, the 802d will outperform the N800 in tweeter and midrange.
                                                                          But how about the sound-stage difference due to the difference size in the cabinet between N800 and 802d?

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • DM3000 Owner
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Jun 2006
                                                                            • 475

                                                                            #38
                                                                            I know which one I'd choose.





                                                                            <--------- :T

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