Colors and Finishes Preference

[jeepers]

You are missing the point. The new series is the "800 Series Diamond". The name of each model in the new series is used interchangeably with D2. For instance, the 800 Diamond is the 800 D2. Nowhere has Di ever been used in print, online, in correspondence nor in talks with B&W and their personnel. It is incorrect usage and as we have recently seen can be confusing.

Sure Di has never been used in any print etc... and I never stated that it was an official name. The fact that 800 D2, 802 D2, 803 D2, 804 D2, 805 D2 have not been used on the official B&W website but 800 D, 801 D, 802 D, 803 D were used for the previous generation says enough. Probably they did not want to confuse people.

[RebelMan]

Let's be clear, B&W is the official not a common website URL. When it comes to the dissemination of information where they chose to make it known is immaterial. The plain simple fact is D2 is for Diamond, period. They probably didn't want to confuse people but apparently someone is. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, as they say.

[beden1]

I believe stuofsci02 first coined the use of Di on these boards. A few days later sc2 suggested we cement the idea but four out of five posts didn't make it unanimous, just ask Briz vegas. Several months later, unaware that an attempt was made to standardize on a name, I suggested D2 be used. By then people had become accustomed to Di. People were also accustom to a flat world and the planet Pluto but look where that went.

I actually don't care for the Di designation as it is cumbersome to use, especially when using plurals. I have no problem with D2 as it makes more sense. Technically speaking, there really does not need to be any (i) or (2) used when describing the 804D, HTM4D or 805D as these are first generation diamond tweeter speakers.

[beden1]

References to the second generation diamond models using Di is not the official naming convention adopted by B&W. The first generation diamond models (800D Series) are officially designated with a trailing D and the second generation diamond models (800 Series Diamond) are officially designated with with a trailing D2. Some people prefer or do not see a problem using Di to refer to the second generation diamond models. Eventually, though, Di will need to succumb to D2 if a third generation of diamond models are produced.


Subwoofers are not engaged when using the 804D2s only when using the M1s. I only listen to music with the 804D2s and I only watch movies with the M1s. There is a possibility of replacing the M1s with the CI 800 Series but only if all the M1s can be replaced. At this point I am uncertain about using the CCM8.5 as surrounds.


To put it mildly, my wife's interests in this hobby do not align with mine so she is less concerned about such things. Someday, I will have a space where I won't need to make any concessions, until then I must make do the best that I can. Giving up the 800D shouldn't be seen as a step back but rather as a step in the right direction for this place and time. Keeping them wasn't the problem, enjoying them was. Care is still exercised around the area even though the 804D2 has taken residence but I am far more at ease about it and can spend more time listening to them than worrying about protecting them.

Speaking about how they sound, I have not observed any undue brightness with the music I mostly listen too but I have seen occasions where they were a little thin with certain types of genres. It was barely apparent with Classé's SSP-800 but fairly blatant with Classé's CP-800. I also do not listen on axis, do you?

I first used my 804Ds for a stereo system I had setup in my basement (with wall-to-wall carpeting, stuffed furniture and an acoustical ceiling), along with an Aragon amp and pre-amp. I had a 10 degree toe-in with an 8' separation between the speakers, and an equal distance sitting position located back from the middle between the speakers. In this setup, I found the 804Ds to have highs that were too sharp (for lack of a better word), particularly when listening to CDs or the iPod. It was OK when listening to vinyl. I played with the speaker positioning a number of times and settled on no toe-in. Later, I replaced the pre-amp with a Classe CP-500, and while the highs were a bit smoother, the sound actually became noticeably less lively and somewhat dull. I sold the CP-500 and went back to the Aragon pre-amp. Later, because I was not enjoying music through the 804Ds in this setting, I moved them upstairs and built a new 5.2 HT system along with an HTM4D and XT2s for surrounds (I am very pleased with these speakers for surrounds, by the way). I am now using my tried and true A/D/S 910II studio monitors for my basement stereo system and I am very pleased with the results. I am also pleased with my family room HT system using the 804Ds as the anchors.

[RebelMan]

I actually don't care for the Di designation as it is cumbersome to use, especially when using plurals. I have no problem with D2 as it makes more sense. Technically speaking, there really does not need to be any (i) or (2) used when describing the 804D, HTM4D or 805D as these are first generation diamond tweeter speakers.

The once thing I didn't mention, only because it's not readily accessible by the public and jeepers was requesting verifiable references, are the order codes B&W uses for the 800 Series Diamond models. All of them go by 80XD2XX or HTMXD2XX.

[RebelMan]

I first used my 804Ds for a stereo system I had setup in my basement (with wall-to-wall carpeting, stuffed furniture and an acoustical ceiling), along with an Aragon amp and pre-amp. I had a 10 degree toe-in with an 8' separation between the speakers, and an equal distance sitting position located back from the middle between the speakers. In this setup, I found the 804Ds to have highs that were too sharp (for lack of a better word), particularly when listening to CDs or the iPod. It was OK when listening to vinyl. I played with the speaker positioning a number of times and settled on no toe-in. Later, I replaced the pre-amp with a Classe CP-500, and while the highs were a bit smoother, the sound actually became noticeably less lively and somewhat dull. I sold the CP-500 and went back to the Aragon pre-amp. Later, because I was not enjoying music through the 804Ds in this setting, I moved them upstairs and built a new 5.2 HT system along with an HTM4D and XT2s for surrounds (I am very pleased with these speakers for surrounds, by the way). I am now using my tried and true A/D/S 910II studio monitors for my basement stereo system and I am very pleased with the results. I am also pleased with my family room HT system using the 804Ds as the anchors.

That puts you around 16.5 degrees off axis, I am closer at around 4 degrees, though I sit about 3' further back with the same 8' speaker-to-speaker separation. At that distance you are getting close to near field positioning. I have generally found sitting in close proximity (around 6-8') to the 800's that the drivers do not coalesce as well for routine listening. It's possible this and any vertical positioning (above axis) could have played into the pronounced highs. Although, you were quite a bit off-axis so that leads me to believe the Aragon pre-amp may have played a larger part as a possible mismatch with the 804D2 for digital sources. The changes to the highs when the CP-500 was inserted seems to support the hypothesis. No matter, you found a happy place for the 804D2 in the end.

[beden1]

That puts you around 16.5 degrees off axis, I am closer at around 4 degrees, though I sit about 3' further back with the same 8' speaker-to-speaker separation. At that distance you are getting close to near field positioning. I have generally found sitting in close proximity (around 6-8') to the 800's that the drivers do not coalesce as well for routine listening. It's possible this and any vertical positioning (above axis) could have played into the pronounced highs. Although, you were quite a bit off-axis so that leads me to believe the Aragon pre-amp may have played a larger part as a possible mismatch with the 804D2 for digital sources. The changes to the highs when the CP-500 was inserted seems to support the hypothesis. No matter, you found a happy place for the 804D2 in the end.

The way the room is layed out with the furniture and my exercise equipment, there was no room to sit further back. Not ideal , but it is was what it was. When I became more off axis in my seating position on the couch (5" below the tweeters), the highs became more bearable when using the Aragon pre-amp. I did adjust the speaker positions when I connected the CP-500, but it sounded on the dull side regardless.

The speakers I am now again using are just so much more forgiving and pleasant. Maybe it's because the highs are not as clear (they are sweeter), but I guess that's what I really prefer when relaxing and listening to music.

[jeepers]

Let's be clear, B&W is the official not a common website URL. When it comes to the dissemination of information where they chose to make it known is immaterial. The plain simple fact is D2 is for Diamond, period. They probably didn't want to confuse people but apparently someone is. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, as they say.

As you mentioned in another post ....verifiable references... there is nothing wrong with it and I assume you have these so what are you waiting for to show them ? "The plain simple fact is D2 is for Diamond, period." is not good enough for me.

[RebelMan]

You can verify without help from me.

[beden1]

As you mentioned in another post ....verifiable references... there is nothing wrong with it and I assume you have these so what are you waiting for to show them ? "The plain simple fact is D2 is for Diamond, period." is not good enough for me.

And, I thought I was OCD. What does it matter whether or not the D2 designation is verifiable or not? Typically on this forum, we try to come up with the best solutions for clear communications.