I am still braking in my 802 Diamonds but am currently using a rotel class d amp. I am wondering what difference I would hear with something like the Mcintosh 452 or classe amps. If you have any suggestions please feel free to let me know!
What to power my diamonds with
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I can't tell nothing about the 402 but I have compared the MC252, MC302 and my rotel RB1582 with the 802 in my dealer room, all brand have different sound but this not mean better, I preffer my rotel amp instead the mcintosh sound because to my ears the bass is more boomy in the rotel and the mc is very laid back. I have compared the class D and class AB of rotel too and in this amp the sound is very different, I never knew what is a harsh amp until when I compared this two side by side, the class D is very clinical and harsh at least the rotel amp(it's not my kind of amp). so the real answer is go for audition for yourself and let your ears tell you what is missing.Last edited by leo2498; 29 May 2013, 13:00 Wednesday.Leo,
Saludos
My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD
Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.- Bottom
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You may want to add Bryston and Ayre to the list of possibilities. The 802's like current so keep that in mind. I found the pre-amp made a significant difference in the nuances with my 803 Diamonds. The same was true for the 803S & 802N's I auditioned. You may want to break them in for a bit before auditioning new gear.
Good listening- Bottom
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It's been awhile but I want to say I noticed a significant difference after maybe 24 to 36 hours. I was running them about 8 or 10 hours a day but not all that loud. The changes were more subtle after that for maybe 100 to 200 hours. The biggest differences I noticed were bass response and the tweeter mellowed.- Bottom
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McIntosh and Classe are both very popular in pairing with B&W and the 452 is one of the most powerful 2 channel amps out there at 450 watts with the Mark Levinson No532 and Krell 402e right there with it both at 400 watts. If you are only looking for a stereo amp with lots of power and not mono blocks then another stereo amp to look at is the Bryston 14B-SST Squared. It's even more powerful then the McIntosh at 600 watts. As you can see from my signature I am a Bryston user with 2 4B-SST's bi-amped for my 800's and a 6B-SST powering my HTM2 and 802's.B&W 800 Diamonds (L/R), HTM2 Diamond (C), 802 Diamonds (SL/SR), Paradigm Signature Sub 25 (LFE), Reference Servo 15a x 2 (Stereo subs), Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ SSP, Bryston 28B-SST2x 2, 7B-SST2x2, 4B-SST C Series, BDP-2, Oppo UDP-205, Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD, Furman SPR-20i, IT-Reference, Eastlink Maestro PVR, Xbox One & 360, PS3, Siltech Golden Ridge II, Ruby Hill IIx2, 330ix2, Kimber Kable PK10 Gold, Tonic, PBJ, Cadence, HD19e, HD19, OPT-1, HDSW 4x1, Ixos 6003, Harmony 1000- Bottom
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+1 on the JC1s. They are current monsters which is what our B&Ws crave. And, you get 1,100 + watts into 4 ohms!!
Sidebar 3: Measurements Before I performed any measurements, I ran the big Parasound Halo at one-third power into 8 ohms for an hour, after which the heatsinks were way too hot to touch. I had one mishap: Before I measure anything, I experiment with the grounding between the amplifier under test, the AC supply, and the Audio Precision System One test setup, in order to reduce power-supply spuriae to their lowest level. With balanced drive, there were no problems.Stereo: Revel F208, Parasound JC2, JC1's, Oppo HA-1, VPI, Dynavector, Moon
HT: B&W 802D2, 805S, HTM4, Marantz, OPPO BDP95, Velodyne DD-12's
HP / secondary system: Woo Audio W2, Carver Sunfire, Kef LS50, Denon, and too many headphones to list- Bottom
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I'm powering my 3 frontend 802D's (not 802 Di or 802N) using Krell Evo 403e amplification and I am completely satisfied - so much so that I'm not on the forum much anymore... too busy enjoying the music. Speaker setup is important but one also needs to know that there are always compromises which are sometimes necessary. Here's a pic of my setup. Strictly speaking, my rack should disappear and the 802D's could benefit by being moved forward into the romm another 6 inches or so. Best of luck and enjoy your magnificent 802 Diamonds!- Bottom
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There is only one Rotel Class-D amplifier worth considering for the 800 series and it is no longer being made. You don't say so unless you have the RMB-1077 take a cue from Rotel and move away from their Class-D topologies. There are exceptions, previous remarks are one, but many if not most solid state amplifiers will have more similar than dissimilar sound characteristics when driven within their operating range. If you are looking for notable changes in amplifier sound quality you will need to consider amplifiers built with tube technologies. Today's tube and transistor based amplifiers are capable of sounding nearly identical but the designers choose to voice them differently. I would be more concerned about the pre-amplifier you are using. In terms of the sound characteristics you hear, it is the most important link in the gear chain following speakers."Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."- Bottom
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There is only one Rotel Class-D amplifier worth considering for the 800 series and it is no longer being made. You don't say so unless you have the RMB-1077 take a cue from Rotel and move away from their Class-D topologies. There are exceptions, previous remarks are one, but many if not most solid state amplifiers will have more similar than dissimilar sound characteristics when driven within their operating range. If you are looking for notable changes in amplifier sound quality you will need to consider amplifiers built with tube technologies. Today's tube and transistor based amplifiers are capable of sounding nearly identical but the designers choose to voice them differently. I would be more concerned about the pre-amplifier you are using. In terms of the sound characteristics you hear, it is the most important link in the gear chain following speakers.- Bottom
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Leo,
Saludos
My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD
Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.- Bottom
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I have not received the amp yet. McIntosh 2 channel gear will be having a price increase at the end of the month and this amp will be going up 1k in price. I compared it to a lot of different amps but my dealer had one he allowed me to take home. It sound great for the short time I had it. The difference I noted right off was the sound stage was wall to wall and floor to ceiling. I also noted a very detailed expression of the music. I could hear each instrument more clearly, the tone was different. It is very hard to explain. Very crisp but yet not fatiguing if that makes sense. The difference in the two are night and day. Low levels also were incredible. Right now I am using my denon 4311 as a processor so the next step will be an updated preamp.
The final decision was based on price and the improvement I felt I was getting dollar for dollar. It also helped that I have a McIntosh dealer in the area. They will deliver, set up, stand behind and they have been very good to me. Looked at Classe but I just felt like it was missing something. Compared them to Krell, audio research, Mark Levinson, pass labs amoung others and the bang for my buck was a not brainer. Seems like the speaker and amp combo were made for each other and my ears!- Bottom
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I have not received the amp yet. McIntosh 2 channel gear will be having a price increase at the end of the month and this amp will be going up 1k in price. I compared it to a lot of different amps but my dealer had one he allowed me to take home. It sound great for the short time I had it. The difference I noted right off was the sound stage was wall to wall and floor to ceiling. I also noted a very detailed expression of the music. I could hear each instrument more clearly, the tone was different. It is very hard to explain. Very crisp but yet not fatiguing if that makes sense. The difference in the two are night and day. Low levels also were incredible. Right now I am using my denon 4311 as a processor so the next step will be an updated preamp.
The final decision was based on price and the improvement I felt I was getting dollar for dollar. It also helped that I have a McIntosh dealer in the area. They will deliver, set up, stand behind and they have been very good to me. Looked at Classe but I just felt like it was missing something. Compared them to Krell, audio research, Mark Levinson, pass labs amoung others and the bang for my buck was a not brainer. Seems like the speaker and amp combo were made for each other and my ears!Leo,
Saludos
My HT: B&W 804D fronts, HTM4D center, 805D rears, Classe CA-2300 Main amp, Preamp Stereo CLASSE CP800, Preamp Multi Marantz AV8801, Parasound A31 center and Surround Amp, Source Oppo BDP-95 screen Samsung 55" UE55d8000 SVS SB12-NSD
Stereo: B&W 804S fronts, Pre: Denon AVR-2809 Amp: Rotel 1582, Source Marantz CD5004.- Bottom
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Congratulations, cyisone01! It's a great feeling when one upgrades a significant piece of audio hardware like this. Enjoy!- Bottom
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cyisone01 Congratulations and enjoy your new toy.Katrien
B&W 683,
HK980 TU, HK980 HD, HK980 HK, HK 3D BLU-RAY player BDT30.
Wishlist:
Pro-ject xTension 9 with 9cc Evolution tonearm
Ortofon 2m Silver (If there isn't any cartridge delivered with the turntable)
QED Reference Audio analog interconnect (For tuner, CD player and Blu-ray player)- Bottom
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I posted this at another forum but I figured it is worth it to post here as well:
Hey guys. First, I know I am going to ruffle some feathers with this post (I know it ruffled mine) but still would like to share my experience. Second, I did NOT do a “blind” test of any sort.
I went to the dealer today to compare an MC452 with my current Marantz MA700s. I brought them to the dealer. The equipment used was 802D2 driven by MC452/MA700/A52 processed by a C48. The C48 had the EQ bypassed and no other room correction or anything else was in the signal path. Music was provided by a mac mini via USB directly into the MC48. We used various content including high res and regular mp3s at 320kbps. We used same cables to the speakers. The MC452 was hooked up to Output 1 via balanced cables and Output 2 was used to either drive the MA700s or the Parasound A52. Audioquest cables were used of the same “line”. Finally, I used a Radioshack SPL meter to ensure that there were no vast differences in listening levels. I mainly listened to the speakers at about 90 db.
I spent most of my time comparing the MC452 to the MA700 and very little time comparing the MC452 to the A52.
Conclusions:
1. MC452 ran around 40ish Watts at 90 db.
2. The 200 watts of the MA700 were more than enough to drive the 802D2 at 90-100 db in the dealer’s room (and mine for that matter).
The above were not surprising but more of a confirmation.
Below is the shocking (to me) part. To be fair, I went to the dealer thinking I was going to merely confirm to myself that there is absolutely no difference between amps.
3. The MC452 sounded DIFFERENT than the Marantz MA700.
Basically when listening to the Marantz MA700 the sound was fine but the music appeared to come from in between the speakers. When listening to the MC452 the sound appeared to come from literally everywhere. There was a very clear and distinct difference between the two. And this was true at higher spl levels as well as low levels which allowed for conversation.
4. The A52 appeared to sound much more like the MA700 but to be fair I spent very little time listening to it.
So I am in a pickle now – do I get an MC452 or do I get an A31 with a subwoofer... or do I keep what I have...- Bottom
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What's the conenction between the A31 and a sub, is it just that you can also afford a sub if you buy the A31 but if you get the 452 there would be no money left for a sub?
I think you have to ask yourself this, what is more important to you, having the eperience you had at the dealer with the 452 or adding a subwoofer to your existing setup? Personally speaking if you have a hometheater surround setup and not a stereo rig and have no sub I would put way more importance on adding a sub.B&W 800 Diamonds (L/R), HTM2 Diamond (C), 802 Diamonds (SL/SR), Paradigm Signature Sub 25 (LFE), Reference Servo 15a x 2 (Stereo subs), Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ SSP, Bryston 28B-SST2x 2, 7B-SST2x2, 4B-SST C Series, BDP-2, Oppo UDP-205, Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD, Furman SPR-20i, IT-Reference, Eastlink Maestro PVR, Xbox One & 360, PS3, Siltech Golden Ridge II, Ruby Hill IIx2, 330ix2, Kimber Kable PK10 Gold, Tonic, PBJ, Cadence, HD19e, HD19, OPT-1, HDSW 4x1, Ixos 6003, Harmony 1000- Bottom
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What's the conenction between the A31 and a sub, is it just that you can also afford a sub if you buy the A31 but if you get the 452 there would be no money left for a sub?
I think you have to ask yourself this, what is more important to you, having the eperience you had at the dealer with the 452 or adding a subwoofer to your existing setup? Personally speaking if you have a hometheater surround setup and not a stereo rig and have no sub I would put way more importance on adding a sub.
Has anyone here compared the MC303 to the MC452?- Bottom
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Just to add another viewpoint, I don't run a sub. I had one, but disconnected it as it boomed in every room except the listening room! I admit that action movies might be missing a little something, but IMO the 802D's do a pretty good job (in most circumstances) on their own. However, I listen to music first and movies second. YMMV.- Mike
Main System:
B&W 802D, HTM2D, SCMS
Classé SSP-800, CA-2200, CA-5100- Bottom
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Cheers
Geoff- Bottom
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