B&W 683 vs CM5 Thoughts?

[Henry982]

Hello everybody.

Even though, this is my first time writing in this forum, I feel already part of it because I have read it uncountable times. Further, I wanted to post the question about how do you feel comparing the B&W 683 and CM5. The reason why I'm asking is because here in the US both are in the same price range.

I chose the 683 and have it paired with a rotel Ra-1520 and a REL T3. I must say that the sound is amazing. Despite my short age (30), I have been a fan of speakers since my teens when I started with a sansui 717 and two altec-lansing 12". After that I spent most of my time improving the sound of my vehicles Boston Acoustic, rockford and others) for years, and since I got married, I went back again to the home theater world.

I would love to hear your thoughts about my system and learn more about how do you feel with the comparison between these two bowers that from my perspective are excellent speakers in an affordable price.

Thanks and have a good weekend.

[wkhanna]

Hi Henry, and welcome to the forum!

I have moved your post to the B&W forum with the expectation that you will receive the most possible views and replies from our members.

Enjoy!

[PewterTA]

First off Welcome and Enjoy the stay!!!!

Don't worry there's lots of us that are into Audiophilia at a younger age (34 here)...so you'll fit right in!

It's really going to come down to what you like... and really asthetics of the speaker (which is more pleasing to the eye). That's why I went with the 802Dis over another manufacturer... I really like the pleasing asthetics of the 802 and every day I sit down to listen to music or watch a movie I admire them for a quick second before enjoying! ha ha. :T

They are very similar styled speakers and really sound very similar. The biggest differences is the 683s are going to have the bass extension that the CM5s can't do. The CM5s might have a slightly better mid and upper range (little more in the micro details) that you'd get. Also it would come down to your size of room and how "loud" you like to turn it up.

Both are much better than most other speakers out on the market at the same price in my opinion...but with saying that, I mean it more towards you're not going to get a bad product buying either.

I think you did a good choice with the 683s if you're liking music more as they will have a fuller sound to them and I think an over all more enjoyable experience.

Without having both side by side and demoing I doubt one would really know what they are missing or gaining from either.

[RebelMan]

Hands down the CM5 is the better of the two but some tweaking is involved to get it there. In fact it's better than either series floorstanders.

[stuofsci02]

The CM5 is definitely the better speaker techincally. But that does not mean it is better for you.

I used to have a pair of 683 for a number of years.. I bought them when they first came out. They are a very nice speaker, but will have more cabinet coloration and will not be quite as airy as the CM5. That said, they will have more bass extension then the CM5.

Depending on what your preference is, they are both good choices.

Also really listening to a speaker takes practice. If this is your first go at a hifi speaker you may prefer the 683's full sound over the CM5. I have found with my own listening, and others I have talked to, the easiest thing for people (who have not heard a lot of speakers) to pick up on is a full sound. Hearing cabinet coloration and airyness is something that can require more listening experience.

Cheers

[wkhanna]

I would expect the CM5 being a 2-way to have smoother overall tonality with only one cross-over transition point in its entire frequency range & well matched drivers which require minimal complexity of the cross-over schematic. All of which should add to improved neutrality in the mid range. With a properly integrated sub supporting the LF (not necessarily and easy task), a V nice 2-ch system would be likely.

Having recently seen both the 600 & the CM series, I must admit to personally not being moved in the slightest by their esthetics, however. The style of the old 700 series was one my favorites when it comes to mid-level B&W’s.

As always, JMHO, YMMV

[fozzer424]

Hands down the CM5 is the better of the two but some tweaking is involved to get it there. In fact it's better than either series floorstanders.

Can you expand upon this statement?

[RebelMan]

Can you expand upon this statement?

The 600 and CM series floorstanders were engineered to perform as full range loudspeakers but the implementation of their designs had to be compromised to satisfy their respective market positions. That compromise came in the form of internal bracing and driver isolation or really the lack thereof.

Since soundwaves are produced in two directions the internally produced waves energize the internal cabinet surfaces thus creating mechanical noise, that is, vibration. The vibration in turn induces an oscillatory side effect commonly known as (cabinet) resonance. In other words, the cabinet makes a sound of its own. Without firming up the interior walls little stands in the way of tapering the internal resonances that can impair the internal drivers abilities to produce clean frequencies resulting in a colored sound, as stu noted.

Because the floorstanders have a much greater surface area and more drivers producing sound and are more capable of playing longer frequenices than the CM5 more noise is inherently generated. The contamination multiplies without isolation of the all important FST midrange from the low frequency drivers. What you get is a hollowed midrange and distorted low end. Voices will sound chesty and caved in, and percussive instruments will sound thickened and lose definition.

The CM5 is not free of coloration but it is far more removed from it given its size and construction. Furthermore, the CM5 is a great deal easier to dampen and transfer away unwanted noise through coupling techniques (tweaking). The mid/bass driver in the CM5 is not as capable as the FST of the floorstanders but it produces a cleaner signal because negative outside influences are mitigated to a much larger degree. Adding to the advantages of the CM5 is less crossover distortion not uncommon to the three-way design of the floorstanders, as noted by wkhanna.

[BWLover]

The FST in the 683 is divided from the bass drivers.

[fozzer424]

The 600 and CM series floorstanders were engineered to perform as full range loudspeakers but the implementation of their designs had to be compromised to satisfy their respective market positions. That compromise came in the form of internal bracing and driver isolation or really the lack thereof.

Since soundwaves are produced in two directions the internally produced waves energize the internal cabinet surfaces thus creating mechanical noise, that is, vibration. The vibration in turn induces an oscillatory side effect commonly known as (cabinet) resonance. In other words, the cabinet makes a sound of its own. Without firming up the interior walls little stands in the way of tapering the internal resonances that can impair the internal drivers abilities to produce clean frequencies resulting in a colored sound, as stu noted.

Because the floorstanders have a much greater surface area and more drivers producing sound and are more capable of playing longer frequenices than the CM5 more noise is inherently generated. The contamination multiplies without isolation of the all important FST midrange from the low frequency drivers. What you get is a hollowed midrange and distorted low end. Voices will sound chesty and caved in, and percussive instruments will sound thickened and lose definition.

The CM5 is not free of coloration but it is far more removed from it given its size and construction. Furthermore, the CM5 is a great deal easier to dampen and transfer away unwanted noise through coupling techniques (tweaking). The mid/bass driver in the CM5 is not as capable as the FST of the floorstanders but it produces a cleaner signal because negative outside influences are mitigated to a much larger degree. Adding to the advantages of the CM5 is less crossover distortion not uncommon to the three-way design of the floorstanders, as noted by wkhanna.

Thank you for this excellent post; very informative indeed.

[RebelMan]

The FST in the 683 is divided from the bass drivers.

This is true but the compartment is not separated from the cabinet. In addition, the FST driver is bolted on rather than suspended as its name would otherwise suggest. The CMs improve on the 600s by using thicker and denser material and by adding wadding. The 800s go another step further by adding structural reinforcements and using isolating materials to mount the midrange driver. It isn't until the Marlan head is reached further up the chain that the FST is separated from the box and its full potential realized. As much as B&W would like to have you think it's all about Diamonds it's really all about Marlans.

[BWLover]

This is true but the compartment is not separated from the cabinet. In addition, the FST driver is bolted on rather than suspended as its name would otherwise suggest. The CMs improve on the 600s by using thicker and denser material and by adding wadding. The 800s go another step further by adding structural reinforcements and using isolating materials to mount the midrange driver. It isn't until the Marlan head is reached further up the chain that the FST is separated from the box and its full potential realized. As much as B&W would like to have you think it's all about Diamonds it's really all about Marlans.

That's why I said divided and not seperate/isolated. One can't really expect much more then that at the 683's price point. I could only imaging what would happen to the fst if the box didn't have that divider. The pressure from the bass drivers would be detrimental to the fst haha

[Henry982]

Guys.

First of all, thank you so much for such a complete answers. I know feel even more pleased about myself because there are more people out there like me that can talk about speakers all day long. Further, I changed my mind regarding my equipment.

My new set up is:
Rotel RC-1550
Rotel RB-1552
B&W CM8
Rel T3.

Due to the fact that I had the rotel and bower's still under the period that I can change it, I decide to go up with the amp because the RA-1520 went over protection a couple of times. Further, I found two used CM8 that I bought in a very affordable price ($1,300).

Now, I must say that I'm more than impressed by the sound of the CM8. I was not sold with the difference between the 600 and CM series mainly because of the $$$ difference. However, now listing to the CM everyday I can tell you guys that the sound difference is there. Mainly I will say that the 683 has a fuller sound but the bass some times interfere with the quality of the midrange and high tones. On the contrary, the CM feels to blend very-well the sounds plus it is more manageable than the 683 at low volumes.

What I would recommend for any B&W buyer is that "you must drive those with at least 100watts of power to hear the quality of the speakers even in low volume"

I look forward to hear from your comments about my new set-up, and again thank you so much for making me feel part of this family.

Henry

[Henry982]

By the way, thanks Bil for changing my threat to the right place

[PewterTA]

Nice pickup Henry!!!!! Can't beat it when things just all come together and works out. I know from experience with getting my 802Diamonds.

Enjoy as those speakers will give you pleasure until the day you either sell them to someone else (hoping they love them as much as you did), or upgrade (and hope the same as the first), or die (not the best scenario of the three lol).

Nothing better than coming home and being able to sit and really enjoy music or a movie and just completely remove yourself from the real world for a little bit and enjoy the audiophoria. :T

Though I will disagree with RebelMan slight and say, there's definitely some fine magic to the Diamond Tweeter (new one with 4 magnets) is better than the old diamond. But I won't take anything away from the marlan head either!

[Henry982]

Thanks for the answer, and you are totally right about coming back home and relaxing hearing some nice tunes.

I would recommend the new Bluray of peter Gabriel New Blood. It's sound amazing with the bowers and definitely even more beautiful with the 802D. That is the next step my friend.

Thanks,

[stevek]

hey henry hope you enjoy the cm8'sfor a newbie im sure evry time you listen to those babies its just heaven.im pretty much the same in that i have just in the last year or so became a b&w owner.i started with a pair of 686 bookshelves for my kids tv room and could not believe how good they sounded.i had been using def tech's in my room for years and thought those little guys sounded so much cleaner.so that lead to cm5's witch then lead to cm9's and then about 10k in gear.lol.my post is regarding the post that the cm 5 would be a better sounding speaker than either floorstander.while im clearly no expert and no doubt realize the difference between the 800 series and anything else out there.i have done numerous side by side comparisons with the cm 5's and the 9's and the 9's hands down outperform the 5's in every aspect.no contest.and the best thing is every change ive made along the way as far as amps and cables has made noticable improvements.to me b&w speakers are just amazing at evry level.since i bought the 9's ive found myself toyally changing what and how i listen to music and movies.the only drawback to being a b&w owner is the quest to get the most out of them is getting costly.ha ha.hope to someday get into the 800 series.enjoy the 8's.

[Henry982]

Thanks Steve. I would love to hear the answer regarding your question. Further, the CM9s are great. I have to say that the sound of the CM series is incredible, which led me to the question: What type of amp and receiver do you use? Finally, thanks for your post and again in my perspective I also believe that the cm9/cm8 sound a more complete than the CM5.

Enjoy.