Speaker size = room size?

[kcsun]

Please can someone enlighten me?

Whenever you go to a Hi Fi shop and say you are interested in a new pair of speakers, the salesman will ask what your budget is, what colour you would like, floor or bookshelf and if he is on the ball he will ask what amp you are running and your musical tastes

I have never been asked the size of my room???
surely this must be important? in my mind a 803di with three 7" midrange units will shift more air than say a 805 with only one driver
Nowhere on any speaker info does it say what the ideal room size for any given speaker should be. Silly question but if the manufacturers do not give the information out how would a salesman know?

Is it that hifi salesmen are only after your wallet, the size of your room must be a factor when it comes to choosing a speaker and no one ever asks??
I suppose the next question would/should be is your room harsh or soft?

Also is there an agreed volume that the speaker manufacturer expects you to run your equipment at, I know everyone likes a different volume and all wives want it QUIETER but what do B&W and the like expect, 75db or something different??

All your views would be welcomed

I am just trying to get my head round all this

kc

[stuofsci02]

I think you ask a great question.

If your sales person is not asking about your room, you are going to the wrong place. Obviously a speaker should be selected on where it will be placed as much as anything. But other factors will come into play such as: subwoofer usage, room treatments etc. etc.

At the end of the day though, you are right. A person needs to know this information to help select a speaker.. Look on this forum and you will notice people will even ask for photos of the room before they will suggest a speaker.

Cheers!

[ninja12]

I think you ask a great question.

If your sales person is not asking about your room, you are going to the wrong place. Obviously a speaker should be selected on where it will be placed as much as anything. But other factors will come into play such as: subwoofer usage, room treatments etc. etc.

At the end of the day though, you are right. A person needs to know this information to help select a speaker.. Look on this forum and you will notice people will even ask for photos of the room before they will suggest a speaker.

Cheers!

+1. The salesman asking about your room should be the very first question. Such questions like the size, is it a lively room, is it a dead room, etc. After that, the next question should be what are you listening habits. Knowing this type of information will help in selecting the right speakers.

[madmac]

A good audio sales person will ask a pile of questions, mostly because they are passionate about audio. However, there are many that are simply sales guys, don't own good gear and don't know what good audio is or care.

Now as for speakers......good speakers, regardless of size (within reason!) will sound good in any regular sized room. It's more a question of placement and optimization ( And the wife's tolerance for big, dominating speakers. If that's an issue, you'll have to settle for smaller one's with a sub for low bass.

[Dmantis]

This is a great topic and one I deal with every day.

First off when shopping for speakers , you have to consider yourself where you are going to put them. Will they fit into the room you plan on using. This isn't something the salesman is going to ask right away but his job is to figure out where to steer you within what his store carries.

So the first question when purchasing a pair of speakers , lets assume for 2 channel listening or stereo if you will. Salesman should ask" What kind of music do you listen to?" , Did you bring any with you today to demo?. This will help the salesman select the brand to start with to let you listen to.
Once you start listening , you get an idea how speaker A sounds. Then the salesman might suggest comparing them to another speaker that he feels is in the realm of what you like to listen to. Then he will let you listen for awhile and come back and ask your opinions.
Based off your comments and once a speaker brand is found , now we can talk about the room they will live in and what size shape , woofer , no woofer , floor , in wall , in ceiling , on wall Bookshelf etc. Most speaker companies have an array of speaker choice with very similar sonic signatures.
Some salesman will suggest a home visit to inspect the given room to really feel out the layout , seating and exact area of allowed placement. But once a good salesman is in your home , he might suggest a certain speaker based off room placement.
Gear is another important factor as you need the correct amount of power to drive said speakers , salesman's job is to make sure you own or sell you what you need to take advantage of your new speakers. He will not sell you a pair of speakers without making sure you have what it takes to enjoy them. He also might and most likely will offer a service which includes delivery and calibration of given speakers.

Now at the caliber of speakers you are thinking about however you came to the reason that the 803's are the ones , you most likely will get a strong suggestion to have a professional come to your house , spend most of the day with you seeing up , calibrating and tweaking them to perfection.

When you are shopping at your level , which you can stop at the 803's and be completely happy for the rest of your life with just about any music you choose as they are one of those speakers that do most everything very well , I still suggest checking out other models in that price bracket and make sure you are getting what you want. Most High end shops will have specialist on staff with great knowledge and experience that you as a consumer can really benefit from.

I honestly think this is becoming less and less in our industry. Home theater and Whole house control Automation seems more important then a good stereo experience. As much as I love all parts of our game , I feel this is what is lost the most and it really saddens me.
Good luck finding the right speakers , your on a good path already.

[kcsun]

Thanks for all your replies but
I would still like to know what the critia is for speaker size relative to room size. It is all very well someone looking at a picture of your room or even visiting your house but where does the info come from?
I would also like to know when you and your family are viewing a movie (I am into HT mainly so music is not important) what sound level you are listening at, can you still hold a conversation whilst the movie is playing or is it too loud for that??
kc

[madmac]

Thanks for all your replies but
I would still like to know what the critia is for speaker size relative to room size. It is all very well someone looking at a picture of your room or even visiting your house but where does the info come from?
I would also like to know when you and your family are viewing a movie (I am into HT mainly so music is not important) what sound level you are listening at, can you still hold a conversation whilst the movie is playing or is it too loud for that??
kc

At my house. normally you would have to raise your voice during an action movie to be heard. Like I said, a given speaker will sound great in any given average room. Audition speakers and choose the one's that you like the best. It's that simple. Bring your favorite CD's with you too.

[PewterTA]

During loud action sequences I like the sound to be just at the level where you'd have to speak up a good bit to hear someone that's over a seat away.

During normal talking with not much going on, you should be able to talk to someone easily. All of this without changing the volume at all.

If you have your's properly calibrated to reference level (80db), I normally do about -10 to -15 on average when listening to a movie. It's loud...but not so much where everything is shaking through the house. But to each his own. I have pretty sensitive ears and turning it up for long periods of times tends to bother me. Which is why I don't head to the clubs anymore because it's all loud and sounds like crap and my ears litterally hurt after a night there.

[hery19]

During loud action sequences I like the sound to be just at the level where you'd have to speak up a good bit to hear someone that's over a seat away.

During normal talking with not much going on, you should be able to talk to someone easily. All of this without changing the volume at all.

If you have your's properly calibrated to reference level (80db), I normally do about -10 to -15 on average when listening to a movie. It's loud...but not so much where everything is shaking through the house. But to each his own. I have pretty sensitive ears and turning it up for long periods of times tends to bother me. Which is why I don't head to the clubs anymore because it's all loud and sounds like crap and my ears litterally hurt after a night there.

Could you tell me how you calibrated your system. I'm getting confusing info on how to do it, do I point the spl meter to the ceiling or 45 degrees, set the volume 80%, and the list goes on. Appreciate your help!

[madmac]

Could you tell me how you calibrated your system. I'm getting confusing info on how to do it, do I point the spl meter to the ceiling or 45 degrees, set the volume 80%, and the list goes on. Appreciate your help!

My advice is to calibrate your system at the volume that you normally play your music and movies. Point the spl meter at each speaker while the pink noise plays and match them all. Also, make sure to tell the amp/receiver how far each speaker is from the main listening position (This step is important!!!).

Subs should be calibrated by ear and with music.

[madmac]

During loud action sequences I like the sound to be just at the level where you'd have to speak up a good bit to hear someone that's over a seat away.

During normal talking with not much going on, you should be able to talk to someone easily. All of this without changing the volume at all.

If you have your's properly calibrated to reference level (80db), I normally do about -10 to -15 on average when listening to a movie. It's loud...but not so much where everything is shaking through the house. But to each his own. I have pretty sensitive ears and turning it up for long periods of times tends to bother me. Which is why I don't head to the clubs anymore because it's all loud and sounds like crap and my ears litterally hurt after a night

I'm right there with ya on that one!!. Can't do loud clubs anymore and do concerts usually with cotton in my ears. :T

[hery19]

My advice is to calibrate your system at the volume that you normally play your music and movies. Point the spl meter at each speaker while the pink noise plays and match them all. Also, make sure to tell the amp/receiver how far each speaker is from the main listening position (This step is important!!!).

Subs should be calibrated by ear and with music.

So if I listen to movies at a volume of 75, should I calibrate all spkrs to 75 db reference level?

[PewterTA]

Play a tone through one speaker... set your meter to a slow display setting (if using a Radio Shack one) and a C weighting.

Some say point it straight ahead and at 45 degree, which works well...but you can also point directly at the speaker. To me... point it directly at the speaker is a little more accurate when using the Radio Shack meter and seems more level to me.

Once you have the meter directly where you normally sit, start playing the tone and turn the up the volume until it hits 80dbs (this volume on the pre/receiver will be your now official "reference level"). Don't touch the volume at this point until finished. Now play the tone to each of the speakers and adjust the volume of each speaker until they are all at 80 on the meter. Ideally... you want to turn down, not increase the volume of each speaker... So if say the center speaker is set to reference and your left speaker is really far away and you'd have to +4db to get it to match... you are better to set the reference with the left speaker and do a -4db on the center to make them match.

Most of my speakers have always been within about -1 to -4dbs to get them all at the same level. Just to give you an idea.

For the sub, I normally run the sub at about -6 to -8dbs. I turn the sub's volume to about 1/2 and then calibrate the rest from the pre/receiver which normally gives that -6 to -8db range.

Once that's done you should be set!

[hery19]

Great, I'll give it a shot and see what I come up with. I've always calibrated to 75db before and the rest of the spkrs always end up with a positive value. Thanks for your help Pewter!

[wkhanna]

Please can someone enlighten me?
….I have never been asked the size of my room???
….surely this must be important? in my mind a 803di with three 7" midrange units will shift more air than say a 805 with only one driver
Nowhere on any speaker info does it say what the ideal room size for any given speaker should be. Silly question but if the manufacturers do not give the information out how would a salesman know?

V interesting question. I have often heard comments in equipment reviews and from other audio enthusiasts such as, “…great sounding little speaker. But don’t expect it to fill an average or large size room with full tonality, gut wrenching bass or precise detail” , or “more suited to larger environments”.

I think you pretty much zeroed in on one key factor. The total surface area of the drivers can directly be associated the SPL (Sound Pressure Level) or loudness that a speaker is capable of. Another factor that is given by the manufacturer is the sensitivity of a speaker. This reflects how easy or heavy of a load the speaker puts on the amp to achieve a specific SPL at a defined distance from the speaker.

Also, some of it just comes down to common sense. Trying to fill an average size room with a couple of little cubes is analogous to showing up to a gun fight with a switch blade. Likewise, using full range three-way towers in small den will likely not deliver a satisfying result.

Is it that hifi salesmen are only after your wallet………

There are still honest dealers, but part of the equation requires you, the buyer, to be informed and do some research on your own, IMHO.

….. the size of your room must be a factor when it comes to choosing a speaker and no one ever asks??

Ever? As in never?

I suppose the next question would/should be is your room harsh or soft?

Your system’s environment is a key factor to its performance. Room treatments can only help achieve a system's potential.

Also is there an agreed volume that the speaker manufacturer expects you to run your equipment at, I know everyone likes a different volume and all wives want it QUIETER but what do B&W and the like expect, 75db or something different??

Dan (PewterTA) has already done a V good job of answering that.

[madmac]

So if I listen to movies at a volume of 75, should I calibrate all spkrs to 75 db reference level?

I do it different than Pewter above. If you normally listen with the volume at 75 then leave it there. Turn on the SPL meter and start with the left speaker. Turn on the pink noise and if the meter reads 62, 78 or 86 db's, set all the speakers to that number. It's as simple as that. The reasoning behind why I do it that way is that you are optimizing the speaker levels for the volume that you normally listen to them, which in my opinion is better and will achieve more accurate results!! Sure as hell works for me :T

Also as I mentioned above, make sure you program the amp for the distances of all your speakers to the main listening position. Very important step!!.

[hery19]

I do it different than Pewter above. If you normally listen with the volume at 75 then leave it there. Turn on the SPL meter and start with the left speaker. Turn on the pink noise and if the meter reads 62, 78 or 86 db's, set all the speakers to that number. It's as simple as that. The reasoning behind why I do it that way is that you are optimizing the speaker levels for the volume that you normally listen to them, which in my opinion is better and will achieve more accurate results!! Sure as hell works for me :T

Also as I mentioned above, make sure you program the amp for the distances of all your speakers to the main listening position. Very important step!!.

I have one question, I see movies normally at 75 but regular TV a lot lower than that, do you also calibrate for that volume?

[stuofsci02]

I have one question, I see movies normally at 75 but regular TV a lot lower than that, do you also calibrate for that volume?

If you can calibrate for different inputs on your AVR/Processor then calibrate for the TV separately. Otherwise calibrate for the input where the sound is most important to you. The settings will carryover to the other inputs.

Cheers

[hery19]

If you can calibrate for different inputs on your AVR/Processor then calibrate for the TV separately. Otherwise calibrate for the input where the sound is most important to you. The settings will carryover to the other inputs.

Cheers

That sounds like a very good plan, I'll try calibrating both inputs if possible. Appreciate all the suggestions :T I apologize if I got this thread off topic.

[madmac]

If you can calibrate for different inputs on your AVR/Processor then calibrate for the TV separately. Otherwise calibrate for the input where the sound is most important to you. The settings will carryover to the other inputs.

Cheers

I agree.....that is correct!! :T

[jeepers]

Please can someone enlighten me?

Nowhere on any speaker info does it say what the ideal room size for any given speaker should be.

Have a look at page 5 of the below; at least this is some hint.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.eu/Downloads/Product/Manual/ENG_FP29467_803-Diamond_manual.pdf

[PewterTA]

Madmac, what you're doing is the same thing... just at a different level. If I set the reference dbs to a specific volume... and you do the volume at whatever level you normally listen at... well when you turn it up you'll hit the reference level.

My way is just telling you where "reference" is that's the only difference.

Both ways do the same thing and are equally effective (I've done it you way many times too).

[madmac]

Madmac, what you're doing is the same thing... just at a different level. If I set the reference dbs to a specific volume... and you do the volume at whatever level you normally listen at... well when you turn it up you'll hit the reference level.

My way is just telling you where "reference" is that's the only difference.

Both ways do the same thing and are equally effective (I've done it you way many times too).

Probably true. The main thing is to calibrate and optimize your gear!! Period!! :T

[leo2498]

Hi guys could you say that you are listening your music a reference level(75 dB)? It is not too loud?
Thanks for your advice.

[madmac]

Hi guys could you say that you are listening your music a reference level(75 dB)? It is not too loud?
Thanks for your advice.

I've tested mine while listening and it rings in at an average of 85-89db's at the loudest passages. :W

[leo2498]

I've tested mine while listening and it rings in at an average of 85-89db's at the loudest passages. :W

OMG that is too loud ;x( , I have configured my HTC to 75 DB but when I listen a cd for me is very loud only with -10db in the denon panel(reference it will be to 0 DB ). it's possible that I had something wrong setting in my denon?