803S and room Size?

[specialized]

We can always upgrade our equipment, but we can't upgrade our room and room size that easy which is very important for some of expensive and high end speakers.. What do u think is minimum room size for B&W 803S?

Should i consider them in my room size 5.5m x 3.8m + opening about 6-7 Square Metters.. I'm also attaching fish eye pictures of my room..

Greetings

Darko

[htsteve]

Darko,

I have a similar sized room and I have 802D's in it. So, I would assess that you could put 803S's in your room. However, I would also strongly consider looking into some acoustic additions to the room. As a start, the hardwood floors could use a nice rug between you and the speakers to minimize reflections. Also, some cloth curtains on the rear and side walls windows/doors will also help. You can do these now and see how they improve your sound. Then when you do a major upgrade, like an 803S, it will be all the better.


Hope this helps.

[specialized]

I have a chance to try few speakers in my room. All of them B&W..

703 was a bit boomy and i didnt like the bass, so i thought that maybe they need a bigger room, so compared to them 803S are even bigger, and i'm a bit afraid that they can be too much for my room.. 804S was a ok, but soundstage was missing..I like the tight bass of 800 series, so that's why i'm thinking about 803s.. If they offer me big soundstage and tight bass, they are perfect one (if they dont become to boomy in this room size).

And i have Rotel 1080, if i go for 803S can i continue using this one, or i have to upgrade AMP as well?

I'm planing to put a small carpet but nothing big, and maybe something on windows but nothing heavy...


Greetings

Darko

[dknightd]

Boominess is as much a function of speaker position and listener position as anything else. Yes, small rooms can be more problematic than big rooms because they will be more, and closer spaced, room modes. I don't think the speaker it self makes that much difference - if the speaker makes bass, and you put them and you in a place that resonates then you will get boominess. It looks like you sit close to the rear wall - that can be a problem. It also looks like you have your speakers fairly close to a wall, again a potential problem. I think I remember seeing this room someplace else, but do not remember the context. Have you tried sitting on the coffee table? Your room might sound better if your primary listening position was about where it is.

Is that a sub underneath your center channel? It looks like you have 805 now. What are you hoping to gain by going to 803?

I have 703 in a room about 12.5'x22'. I'd happily put 803d in this room. But my room has lots of broadband absorbers in corners - almost any room needs this.

Did you think the 804 had more problems with soundstage than 703? Again, this maybe room related - you really want to absorb at the first reflection points on the walls, ceiling, and floor. I'm not sure the 803 will give you more soundstage then 804 - perhaps somebody with experience with these two speakers can help with that.

In summary - it is not the size of the room that matters so much - what matters is how much of that space you want to give up by placing speakers and listener in favorable places, and, how much you are willing to treat the room.

[specialized]

I payed money in advance, and got a chance to have several speakers to try at home.. As first i started considering 683 and CM7. Then when i heared 703, i found out that 703 are different league then 683/CM7. Also wanted to try 800 series..I compared 804S and 703 (for a short time), and i found out that 703 heave bigger soundstage, but 804S have very tight controlled bass but a bit laid back, and soundstage was not that that impressive.. I didnt like 703 bass becouse was not that tight..But i decided to order and to live that way.. While i was waiting I got a 805 to listen temporary, and i found out that they are totaly impressive (very nice sound, very detailed, dissapear in the space, except beeing a bit tin on bass. And becouse im listening from 4.5 meters, maybe small for my room.. Also i compare 805 and 804, and prefer 805 (more detailed and bigger soundstage). So now the dilema is 703 or 805s. While reading forums, and talking around, i started to think that maybe 803S have all good things from all the speakers i tried.. Tight, deep and controled bass, impressive soundstage, and details (i found out that sound from 800 series is more detailed and more tight at all then 703). But also while asking around, there was people who think that maybe in my room 803S would be too big, and that they would resonate a lot.. Problem is that they dont plan to have on stock and to be able to try (they have 803D but i cant compare them becouse they have even more bass, and are too big to try them at home), so if i want to order 803S i have to do it without trying at home.

805S with sub are nice for the movies, but for Stereo i dont like to use a sub.


So if im sure that 803S is proper size for my room (and they would not resonate and make distorsion), they can be choice for whole my life, and to stop thinking at all about speakers and to start spending more time on music forums

Also do u think 1080 is fine AMP or i have to upgrade that as well?


Darko

Boominess is as much a function of speaker position and listener position as anything else. Yes, small rooms can be more problematic than big rooms because they will be more, and closer spaced, room modes. I don't think the speaker it self makes that much difference - if the speaker makes bass, and you put them and you in a place that resonates then you will get boominess. It looks like you sit close to the rear wall - that can be a problem. It also looks like you have your speakers fairly close to a wall, again a potential problem. I think I remember seeing this room someplace else, but do not remember the context. Have you tried sitting on the coffee table? Your room might sound better if your primary listening position was about where it is.

Is that a sub underneath your center channel? It looks like you have 805 now. What are you hoping to gain by going to 803?

I have 703 in a room about 12.5'x22'. I'd happily put 803d in this room. But my room has lots of broadband absorbers in corners - almost any room needs this.

Did you think the 804 had more problems with soundstage than 703? Again, this maybe room related - you really want to absorb at the first reflection points on the walls, ceiling, and floor. I'm not sure the 803 will give you more soundstage then 804 - perhaps somebody with experience with these two speakers can help with that.

In summary - it is not the size of the room that matters so much - what matters is how much of that space you want to give up by placing speakers and listener in favorable places, and, how much you are willing to treat the room.

[Horacio]

Darko,

I actually share dknightd's line of thought: the difference in soundstange you describe between 805 and 804s are likely due to placement. I have 804s and tried 805 and would never say the soundstage is bigger with 805...probably the contrary. Actually the midrange driver is better in the 804s, as it is the FST, unlike the 805.

Between the 804s and 803s, which I've heard as well I would say the sound signature is the same, with the 803s developing more bass. The tweeter and midrange drivers are the same.

Then I'm not sure why you say you don't like 805 + sub for stereo. Have you listened to a good sub hooked up to the full range speaker outputs (as opposed to the LFE output)? If you haven't, let me suggest you should. I actually have 804s + Rel Storm III and do 100% stereo, and really like it.

About the 1080: I had the 1080 + CM4 and loved them together. Even though the 1080 has plenty power to drive the 804s, it came through to my ears as harsh, and eventually upgraded the amp to a McIntosh MC275...2x75Wpc tubed, and sounds A LOT nicer than the 1080, even in the bass department.

My 2 cents.

[specialized]

Darko,

I actually share dknightd's line of thought: the difference in soundstange you describe between 805 and 804s are likely due to placement. I have 804s and tried 805 and would never say the soundstage is bigger with 805...probably the contrary. Actually the midrange driver is better in the 804s, as it is the FST, unlike the 805.

Between the 804s and 803s, which I've heard as well I would say the sound signature is the same, with the 803s developing more bass. The tweeter and midrange drivers are the same.

Then I'm not sure why you say you don't like 805 + sub for stereo. Have you listened to a good sub hooked up to the full range speaker outputs (as opposed to the LFE output)? If you haven't, let me suggest you should. I actually have 804s + Rel Storm III and do 100% stereo, and really like it.

About the 1080: I had the 1080 + CM4 and loved them together. Even though the 1080 has plenty power to drive the 804s, it came through to my ears as harsh, and eventually upgraded the amp to a McIntosh MC275...2x75Wpc tubed, and sounds A LOT nicer than the 1080, even in the bass department.

My 2 cents.

On Same placement at my place 703 had muuuch bigger soundstage then 804S, and their sound was a bit laid back.. 703 produce me sound like i'm in first raw on concert, and 804s produce sound like i'm in last raw, and when i close eyes, everything happeneing in a line, not in whole room.. That's kind of soundstage.. I tried 805s vs 804s in dealer show room, and we share the same opinion that 804s soundstage is in a line.. Again 805S have make deeper soundstage.. So thats why i thought that maybe 803S would have all nice things i heared from all speakers i had a chance to listen..
Becouse i like HT as well, as a procesor i use DENON 3808 receiver, and for front speakers Rotel 1080, connected to Denon.. When i listen in stereo, i use Pure Audio Setting on receiver (bypass everything, and get a straight pure line, without sub). If i like to use a sub, i have to use a Stereo Setting, and maybe my test sub is not good, or i dont know how to adjust, but i never did a perfect blend in sound between sub and speakers. So thats why i prefered to listen in stereo without sub..

Darko

[specialized]

[QUOTE=Horacio]Darko,


Then I'm not sure why you say you don't like 805 + sub for stereo. Have you listened to a good sub hooked up to the full range speaker outputs (as opposed to the LFE output)? If you haven't, let me suggest you should. I actually have 804s + Rel Storm III and do 100% stereo, and really like it.

Can u explain me a bit more how to connect sub this way? Now i connect my sub on receiver, and set crossover also in receiver menu (DENON 3808).


Darko

[dknightd]

I don't have much experience with 803. I cannot tell you if you will like it better than 805. I would guess, and this is only a guess, that if you put 803 where your 805 is now, and sit on the couch at the back of the room, that it will sound boomy.

The 1080 will probably drive the 803 fine. But at this level people usually
prefer a more expensive amp. Again, only you can decide if the small improvement is worth it to your ears.

[Horacio]

The sub has to be designed that way. Those that are have an LFE input and another input to be connected to the amp.

You seem to have already decided you want the 803s, so just go for it and enjoy.

[kmcheng]

Can u explain me a bit more how to connect sub this way? Now i connect my sub on receiver, and set crossover also in receiver menu (DENON 3808).

Darko

It depends on whether your sub has both speaker-level input and LFE input. If you sub has speaker-level input, then you can connect it to the receiver the same way you connect your left and right front speakers. You just need to somehow bundle the speaker wire copper strands together into the same binding posts on the receiver.

Chances are if your sub has speaker-level input then the owner's manual would tell you exactly how to do this. My PV-1 even comes with a special wire that allows me to make this connection easier.

After you make the speaker-level connection, disconnect the LFE connection that you currently have. Then in the receiver, set the L and R front speakers to Large and disable the LFE channel. Now your L and R front connections should receive the full-range signal. You can play with the cross-over in the sub (not the crossover in the receiver) and adjust things to your liking.

[specialized]

I don't have much experience with 803. I cannot tell you if you will like it better than 805. I would guess, and this is only a guess, that if you put 803 where your 805 is now, and sit on the couch at the back of the room, that it will sound boomy.

The 1080 will probably drive the 803 fine. But at this level people usually
prefer a more expensive amp. Again, only you can decide if the small improvement is worth it to your ears.

That's why i'm asking and why i'm afraid if 803 are too big for the room.. I dont want to get "BOOMY sound"

So seem that u think 803 it would be too much for not boomy sound?

Darko

[specialized]

The sub has to be designed that way. Those that are have an LFE input and another input to be connected to the amp.

You seem to have already decided you want the 803s, so just go for it and enjoy.

If i'm sure that 803s won't sound boomy in my room, i would definitly order them.. But.. I'm still a bit afraid if they would be just too boomy in room as mine..


Darko

[wettou]

If i'm sure that 803s won't sound boomy in my room, i would definitely order them.. But.. I'm still a bit afraid if they would be just too boomy in room as mine..Darko

Darko,

The 803 will not sound boomy!! Also if there is too much bass you can put bass traps in the corners and that will correct the problem.

I have a pair of 803 in a 12 x10 and they sound great :T

[Dmm53]

I have a similarly-sized room and have graduated from 805S with Rotel 1080 to 803S with a Mac 352. I used the Rotel 1080 for a few weeks with the 803S before buying the Mac. What a difference the amp made!

The 803S are not boomy in my room. I do have them on Soundanchor stands which tightened up the base. I couldn't be happier (until the next time I get upgrade-itis!)

[beden1]

If i'm sure that 803s won't sound boomy in my room, i would definitly order them.. But.. I'm still a bit afraid if they would be just too boomy in room as mine..Darko

First off, B&W does not, nor would not make speakers that are "boomy". I agree with others that you need to look at calming down the brightness in your room, have correct speaker placement, as well as configure your pre-amp properly.

A good example of this, is the fact that I have 703 speakers that used to be my L/R fronts. I now use them as my surrounds along with 803D L/R fronts. The 703's have very tight/controlled bass playing in my room. You found them to be not tight and controlled in your room. Something is wrong in the way your room or system is set up.

[specialized]

First off, B&W does not, nor would not make speakers that are "boomy". I agree with others that you need to look at calming down the brightness in your room, have correct speaker placement, as well as configure your pre-amp properly.

A good example of this, is the fact that I have 703 speakers that used to be my L/R fronts. I now use them as my surrounds along with 803D L/R fronts. The 703's have very tight/controlled bass playing in my room. You found them to be not tight and controlled in your room. Something is wrong in the way your room or system is set up.

Seem that's my room And High End HiFi and minimalist enterier are not a good friends .. I'll get 703 for few days again, so i can experiment with them, and if i dont get boomy sound, i'll order 803

greetings

Darko

[dknightd]

I'll get 703 for few days again, so i can experiment with them, and if i dont get boomy sound, i'll order 803

greetings

Darko

That sounds like a good plan. the 803 is I'm sure a better speaker than the 703.
But if either boom in your room it is probably your room/speaker position/listening position.

Any chance you'd consider moving the speakers a little further away from the wall? How about putting you couch about where the table is? Could you consider broadband absorbers in some corners?

[specialized]

That sounds like a good plan. the 803 is I'm sure a better speaker than the 703.
But if either boom in your room it is probably your room/speaker position/listening position.

Any chance you'd consider moving the speakers a little further away from the wall? How about putting you couch about where the table is? Could you consider broadband absorbers in some corners?

It's too bad that next to the speakers position are doors (one to the exit, another one to the kitchen). So it's pretty frequent part of the room, and i cant move them more away from the wall.. Also i can't put the couch more front (maybe half meter). So i'll try the best in my room, so i can definitly know.. BTW what are broadband absorbers?


Darko

[dknightd]

BTW what are broadband absorbers?

Darko

Some people call them bass traps.

an example

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_monster.html

I call them broadband just because the actually absorb a broad range of frequencies.

(although the gik in the link above use a reflective membrane to reduce absorbtion of higher frequencies - a good idea if you are going to use lots of these types of things)

[wettou]

Some people call them bass traps. an example

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_monster.html

I call them broadband just because the actually absorb a broad range of frequencies. (although the gik in the link above use a reflective membrane to reduce absorbtion of higher frequencies - a good idea if you are going to use lots of these types of things)

Expansive and ugly!! Any better solution?

[beden1]

Expansive and ugly!! Any better solution?

I don't know, the wall panels may be OK if placed behind the speakers and are kind of obscured, and a color to either match or blend in with the paint. I was just trying to imagine if I could get them to blend in enough so my wife wouldn't throw everything in the street.

I hate the Room Diffusor though, and unfortunately, I need to tame my room from some echos. I guess the Acoustic Panels don't work for this issue, or do they?

[dknightd]

Expansive and ugly!! Any better solution?

I made my own out of 3 lb/ft^^3 compressed fiberglass, then covered them in a fabric of my wife's choosing. Much cheaper, still not particularly attractive. Sure makes the room sound better though.

[wettou]

I don't know, the wall panels may be OK if placed behind the speakers and are kind of obscured, and a color to either match or blend in with the paint. I was just trying to imagine if I could get them to blend in enough so my wife wouldn't throw everything in the street.

I hate the Room Diffusion though, and unfortunately, I need to tame my room from some echos. I guess the Acoustic Panels don't work for this issue, or do they?

Try silk plants they work wonders for diffusion so I hear:T For the walls I have used tapestries that works very well you can hang fiber glass pannels behind it

[dknightd]

Don't forget to come back and let us know what you decide

[specialized]

Don't forget to come back and let us know what you decide

Of Course that i'll share my happiness with the B&W Members Club

greetings

Darko

p.s Can we get like final answers about u'r opinions? So simple and clear. 803S too big, or 803S just fine?

[scanido]

I have had my 803S in a fairly small room (17' x 11') which was my bedroom at time and i didn't find them to be "boomy" at all. Albeit they were powered by my rotel RSX-1057 receiver though.

They are awesome speakers and do not need too much power to get the best from them!

[specialized]

I have had my 803S in a fairly small room (17' x 11') which was my bedroom at time and i didn't find them to be "boomy" at all. Albeit they were powered by my rotel RSX-1057 receiver though.

They are awesome speakers and do not need too much power to get the best from them!

Almost same size as my room..


Thank u

Darko

p.s What u can say about them as negative sides?

[beden1]

Try silk plants they work wonders for diffusion so I hear:T For the walls I have used tapestries that works very well you can hang fiber glass pannels behind it

The silk plants do work. Did you get a chance to try some yet? Silk as a material is dense yet absorbs, and the leafs are in every direction which helps to diffuse if you get 4.5-5' minimum floor standing plants that are bushy.

My problem is difficult do to 24' ceilings, a second floor balcony leading to two bedrooms, and my listening room also opens to a large foyer, a dining room, a large entranceway to the master bedroom, and another family room. Sounds are bouncing everywhere. The large mirror facing the main speakers doesn't help either, along with the marble floors etc., etc. We also don't have anything on the walls as yet (I'm hoping to come up with some sort of artwork that also works to diffuse and/or absorb bouncing sound waves). Tapestries are a good idea, and while I like them, my wife does not.

The silk plants do work, but I may need enough silk plants to create a tropical forest. So not to use too much of a good thing, I am exploring additional options to also help tame my room.

The listening room at my B&W/Classe dealer in Florida uses something that is really unusual. The owner collects Japanese Samurai clothing (forget what they are called). They are a thick fancy silk brochaid material - like ceremonial dress robes. They have them hung on the walls at various intervals. This room is the most neutral room I've listened to, and they also had two entranceway doors open at the time. They look very good on the walls as well, but I'm sure they don't come cheap. In speaking with them about their decision to use these ceremonial robes, they said it was a brain storm when trying to figure out what to use that didn't look like industrial type absorbers. They tried them and they worked extremely well.

Like these and the silk plants, I'm sure many of us can come up with other good ideas, and alternatives to the sound panels that our wives hate (and I hate) hung on the walls of our homes.

Let's get those great minds working to come up with some ideas!

[specialized]

I have a similarly-sized room and have graduated from 805S with Rotel 1080 to 803S with a Mac 352. I used the Rotel 1080 for a few weeks with the 803S before buying the Mac. What a difference the amp made!

The 803S are not boomy in my room. I do have them on Soundanchor stands which tightened up the base. I couldn't be happier (until the next time I get upgrade-itis!)

Did u consider 805s as well? If u do why u choose 803s over 805s?

Darko

[specialized]

Darko,

The 803 will not sound boomy!! Also if there is too much bass you can put bass traps in the corners and that will correct the problem.

I have a pair of 803 in a 12 x10 and they sound great :T

Did u consider 805s in such a small space? If u do why u choose 803s over 805s?

What negatives u can find for 803s in u'r room?


Darko

[beden1]

Did u consider 805s in such a small space? If u do why u choose 803s over 805s?

What negatives u can find for 803s in u'r room?


Darko

Because you already figured out the 803S are better speakers than the 805S to use as your main speakers.

[specialized]

Because you already figured out the 803S are better speakers than the 805S to use as your main speakers.

I consider that yes.. But Zoran in his room have oposite opinion.. So i was wonder about others opinion about this..

Darko

[beden1]

I consider that yes.. But Zoran in his room have oposite opinion.. So i was wonder about others opinion about this..

Darko

The only opinion that matters is yours, and yours alone. Zoran has his own ears and opinions, as do we all. You heard the 803S were better to your ears. You have to decide. It's time to S_ _t or get off the pot!

[specialized]

The only opinion that matters is yours, and yours alone. Zoran has his own ears and opinions, as do we all. You heard the 803S were better to your ears. You have to decide. It's time to S_ _t or get off the pot!

Sometimes is bad when u have to listen for only few hours.. So that's why i'm interested about others opinion..And that's why is forum about.. To share our opinions.. The most important is our self opinion becouse everyone feel the music differently, but it's always interesting to hear other opinions, specialy if they are based on some own facts, not just opinion without base..
In that few hours i definitly feel the 803 very nice, but now when i listen just 805, i'm finding out that if i dont have 803 to compare, 805s is great sounding..And i'm still thinking a little bit just about flexibility.. Becouse small speaker give more flexibility...So another reason to read other opinions why they choose 803 and 805 and vice versa...


Greetings

Darko

p.s. Im listening 805 in this moment, and i can definintly say that they are better then 703, and more pleasant to listen.. On first listening, first few hours, i would pick 703. But after few days, and more hours, for me 805s are much better speaker..There is definitly some sweet magic in whole 800 series, and it;s not just a marketing...

[beden1]

The forum pretty much provided in-put to you starting about a month ago. From there, it's all up to your ears, and your ears alone.

[wettou]

It's all up to your ears, and your ears alone.

Yes, I have 803 and HTM1 in a 11w x 12l x 9h room and they sound great, I use to have them in a 18w x 20l x 10h and they were also great a bit different sound but that was probably due to the room :lol:

[dknightd]

Have you considered the 802d? Nice speaker and if you can afford it might work in your space just fine

[specialized]

Have you considered the 802d? Nice speaker and if you can afford it might work in your space just fine

I think i wont ask for a while.. U'r answers make too much temptations to me

I'm ordering tommorow 803S.. Thanks.


Darko

[beden1]

I think i wont ask for a while.. U'r answers make too much temptations to me

I'm ordering tommorow 803S.. Thanks.


Darko

Good choice and enjoy!

[dknightd]

I'm ordering tommorow 803S.. Thanks.


Darko

Good choice. I'm sure you will like them

[wettou]

I'm ordering tomorrow 803S.. Thanks. Darko

Congratulation they are great speakers I have had a pair for 7 years myself and they work great. :T

[specialized]

Congratulation they are great speakers I have had a pair for 7 years myself and they work great. :T

Do u think it's worth to spend extra money for 803D?


Darko

p.s. F*ck.. Few months ago I started thinking about 683 and i thought that they are expensive.. Now.. I lost my mind.. I have to tell 803S or 803D until Friday.. I'm upgrading from 602 btw

[beden1]

Do u think it's worth to spend extra money for 803D?


Darko

p.s. F*ck.. Few months ago I started thinking about 683 and i thought that they are expensive.. Now.. I lost my mind.. I have to tell 803S or 803D until Friday.. I'm upgrading from 602 btw

I'd really hate to sell you anything . . . you're new name should be Undecided!

I have the 803D's. In order to run them properly as they were designed, you will also need a very good pre-amp or pre-pro, and have a minimum of 200-350 watts of power per speaker, provded by a very good amp like a Classe.

You will also have to have a very good source player - CD or etc.

With the 803D's, and when you build an HT system, you will also need to spend up for the HTM2D. I know this, as I had to just do the same thing, moving from an HTM1 to an HTM2D.

Are they better? - Yes, but . . . you need to consider the extra costs involved to get the most out of your initial investment in the 803D's.

[mjb]

Do u think it's worth to spend extra money for 803D?

Probably, but remember the theory of diminishing returns. The best advice is to pick an upper limit, and stick to it.

Moving up the range doesn't just stop with the front pair, you'll need beefier amplification, a better centre/surround, upgrade the source, it just circles on and on.

The 803S is a really nice speaker - you'll be very happy with it.