Help with Crossover set up 804D

[leo2498]

Hi Guys, I'm new in the forum and I have some doubts that maybe someone could help me, one of them it's the crossover set up, Audyssey was set my fronts in large(obviously always does) and my others speakers in small, but I want set the crossover for the fronts with 60Hz and 80 Hz for the rest of my speakers; it is could be bad set up? why most people always set them like small with 80 Hz for crossover if they can easily drive 60 Hz waves? Obviously a good sub could drive much better this bass output I know that but I want to know why recommend this configuration. My Main amp is a rotel RB1582 2x200.

[stuofsci02]

I run my 804s at 60 hz for movies and 40 hz for music..

Cheers,

Stuart

[scanido]

I see you got two quality subs. If you have these in stereo you may want to try 70 or 80hz. You'll get more headroom from your amp.

EDIT: oops, I mistakenly read stuofsci02 equipment list. Ok, try 60hz first. That amp should be more than capable.

[Miketr75]

I run my 804s at 60 hz for movies and 40 hz for music..

Cheers,

Stuart

+1 :T

[londoner]

I have 2.1 system with 804Ds crossed over to a DB1 at 80Hz with 12db slope. I find this integrates very well for music - better than when I tried to use the DB1's inbuilt low-pass filter matching the 804D.

The way I think about it is that the 804Ds can certainly handle the 80-60Hz range but the DB1 can probably handle it better with its much larger drivers.

You might think that you're wasting the bass capability of the 804D by crossing over at 80Hz, but the mid-to-bass crossover frequency is 350Hz and so the bass drivers are still handling 350-80Hz which is putting them to plenty of use.

In the end though with bass, I think you have to just try it and see how it sounds. The room and placement of speakers make such a difference that I've come to the conclusion that it's not something where you can get a perfect answer from other people - you have to just try it for yourself.

[beden1]

Audessey set my 804Di(s) to large with a 40Hz crossover. I have dual subs in this HT system.

[madmac]

Like a poster said above, you'll free up piles of headroom using the subs and setting all speakers to small. Setting the mains to 'large' is only robbing power from the amp and is duplicating the work done by the subs, who by the way, do low bass better than the mains. Duplication means 'dirty' in my books.

Now on the other hand, you have some mighty fine speakers there and if you do a lot of 2 channel music, you might want to have the mains play in large when listening to 2ch music and have the subs off. I would try 2ch music using both the subs set to 60-80 hz set in small and then in 'large' without the subs to see which sounds better. But for movies or 5 channel music, setting all to small and letting the subs do the bass is always better in my book.

[stuofsci02]

At the end of the day I think you need to let your ears do the decision making. We can all give our inputs, but there is no cost to trying it out.. Just your time...

madmac.. Why do you have duplication? I assume if you set your crossover low, you would still only have the sub play the bass below the crossover and speakers above.. No duplication here..

[leo2498]

thanks guys for your inputs, I will go with 60 HZ for now and I will do new test .

[madmac]

At the end of the day I think you need to let your ears do the decision making. We can all give our inputs, but there is no cost to trying it out.. Just your time...

madmac.. Why do you have duplication? I assume if you set your crossover low, you would still only have the sub play the bass below the crossover and speakers above.. No duplication here..

I guess you have a point there but it seems like our friend has really good speakers that probably go down to about 30hz or so on their own. Setting the mains to large means that the amp is giving them all the sound....right down to the lowest frequencies. So???.....where are we going to set the sub crossover in this case??. I don't think you can set a sub to cross at 30hz or even 40hz for that matter. One of the whole ideas of subs is that they are designed to, and do bass better than a full range speaker at super low frequencies so if that's the case and the drivers are of equal quality as the mains, I say let them do their job....free up amp headroom and go for it!!. :T

[Kal Rubinson]

Audessey set my 804Di(s) to large with a 40Hz crossover.

Not possible. If set to LARGE, the crossover setting is ignored (except for double bass). If you change the setting to SMALL, you will activate the 40Hz crossover.

[beden1]

Not possible. If set to LARGE, the crossover setting is ignored (except for double bass). If you change the setting to SMALL, you will activate the 40Hz crossover.

Should I overide the audessey settings? I'm not at this HT system for about a week, but why are the subs working if my main speakers are set to large? Are the subs just outputting the bass that is being sent to the center and surround speakers that are set to small? Thanks.

[madmac]

Not possible. If set to LARGE, the crossover setting is ignored (except for double bass). If you change the setting to SMALL, you will activate the 40Hz crossover.

Exactly Kal......That is what I'm trying to say!!. It's duplication of Bass by the mains and subs when they are set to large as there is no crossover on the mains at that point. :T

[Kal Rubinson]

Should I overide the audessey settings? I'm not at this HT system for about a week, but why are the subs working if my main speakers are set to large? Are the subs just outputting the bass that is being sent to the center and surround speakers that are set to small? Thanks.

Yes, that and the LFE, but it is also possible that you have switched on double bass.

[Miketr75]

Some great infos here, thanks

[Tweir]

With the RB-1582 have you tried running the 804's full range?

[leo2498]

yes I did, but they don't have enough bass output bellow 60 hz when I did the test with my splm. I currently set them with 60 Hz for xover and I'm really happy with this configuration.

[Tweir]

yes I did, but they don't have enough bass output bellow 60 hz when I did the test with my splm. I currently set them with 60 Hz for xover and I'm really happy with this configuration.

That's interesting but I guess you have the 804's pulled out from the wall a great deal. To me I like the quality of bass from a good solid state amp like the Rotel RB-1582 better than a sub with a Class D switching amp.. I am not completely sure about this but I think the 2 channel mix down of the 5.1 source has the +10db added to the mix down for the LFE channel so you would get significantly stronger bass when watching movie based material.. The quality of bass coming out of the carbon fiber rohacell sandwhich woofers on the 804d is much better than the quality of the sub unless you are using a REL or B&W asw 825/855 or DB-1 or JL audio...

[leo2498]

Hi Tweir, I agree with you but I live in an apartment and the room is very small maybe because this I lose a better bass output, if I turn up the volume very hard the 804D have strong bass output but I will become in the nightmare of my neighbors

[Tweir]

Hi Tweir, I agree with you but I live in an apartment and the room is very small maybe because this I lose a better bass output, if I turn up the volume very hard the 804D have strong bass output but I will become in the nightmare of my neighbors

I get it so you trying to supplement the lower end of bass but at lower volumes.

[stuofsci02]

The quality of bass coming out of the carbon fiber rohacell sandwhich woofers on the 804d is much better than the quality of the sub unless you are using a REL or B&W asw 825/855 or DB-1 or JL audio...

That is not necessarily true... The fact that the 804di drivers are smaller will make them more likely to distort as the volume level goes up. Additionally, subs are purpose built to cover only the low bass regions, so driver travel and rigidity can be tailored specifically for the task..

[Tweir]

That is not necessarily true... The fact that the 804di drivers are smaller will make them more likely to distort as the volume level goes up. Additionally, subs are purpose built to cover only the low bass regions, so driver travel and rigidity can be tailored specifically for the task..

How are you liking those emotiva subs?

[stuofsci02]

How are you liking those emotiva subs?

They are not pretty, but I really like them.. I think they are excellent value. Got mine for $399 each when they first came out.

I think with two of them, they can compete with a single more expensive sub like the JL Fathom F112 etc.. There was an interesting review in Audiogon about them.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...ofers/ultra-12

[Tweir]

They are not pretty, but I really like them.. I think they are excellent value. Got mine for $399 each when they first came out.

I think with two of them, they can compete with a single more expensive sub like the JL Fathom F112 etc.. There was an interesting review in Audiogon about them.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...ofers/ultra-12

399.99 each is a crazy value... I have been keeping an eye on this company and they are offering some pretty cool products for the price.. Would love to hear the 500 watt monos and give them a run for there money....

[leo2498]

That is not necessarily true... The fact that the 804di drivers are smaller will make them more likely to distort as the volume level goes up. Additionally, subs are purpose built to cover only the low bass regions, so driver travel and rigidity can be tailored specifically for the task..

I'm only a beginner in this world but I thinking that if you have enough clean power in four small driver(6,5"), they could get a better performance always you have the right room for them because it will have a fast response for music instead a bigger driver, I don't know if I was wrong with this thought.

[leej]

The problem with the woofers in a main speaker is that you can’t move them around the room to achieve the balance that is needed when there are problems with room acoustics at low frequencies. Besides that, subs can usually go much lower than 804’s. This may not be as useful for music, but definitely better for movies.
And yes, there are several less expensive subs, other than REL or B&W asw 825/855 or DB-1 or JL audio, that are very musical, with low distortion which would complement a pair of B&W mains - especially a pair of them.